Passan: Dodgers Nearing Deal for Forsythe

[gunnarthor]

Assuming Dave's source accurate, that the Dodgers had already agreed to give up prospects 33 & 49, was not getting prospect 82 really worth passing up on two top-50 prospects? I guess I'm at a loss on that one. I like Willie Calhoun's bat a lot (hate his glove a lot) but I would not let him get in the way of the other two if I was the Twins.

Dodgers never agreed to trade Alvarez. Pretty much every reliable source has said as much. Twins should have asked for him, of course, which is what Morosi suggests. TD doesn't let us discuss Dave's source.

[drivlikejehu]

Teams often start with big asks. Morosi's tweet has zero informational value because it says nothing about what the Dodgers were actually willing to give up. 

 

Whether or not the Twins erred is entirely dependent on what the Dodgers were willing to give up.

 

Ergo, we continue to lack any rational ability to judge whether the Twins made the right decision. Anyone who claims otherwise is either relying on Dave's source or making up one in their imagination.

[DaveW]

 

Teams often start with big asks. Morosi's tweet has zero informational value because it says nothing about what the Dodgers were actually willing to give up. 

 

Whether or not the Twins erred is entirely dependent on what the Dodgers were willing to give up.

 

Ergo, we continue to lack any rational ability to judge whether the Twins made the right decision. Anyone who claims otherwise is either relying on Dave's source or making up one in their imagination.

I wouldn't say it has zero informational value, it shows what the Twins originally wanted, if the Dodgers weren't willing to give up anything resembling that trade then chances are they wouldn't have "negotiated" for months on end. So it seems that it can potentially be concluded that while the Dodgers didn't want to give up JDL+Alvarez+Calhoun, they must have made an offer close enough to keep the conversation moving for multiple weeks.

 

[gunnarthor]

 

I wouldn't say it has zero informational value, it shows what the Twins originally wanted, if the Dodgers weren't willing to give up anything resembling that trade then chances are they wouldn't have "negotiated" for months on end. So it seems that it can potentially be concluded that while the Dodgers didn't want to give up JDL+Alvarez+Calhoun, they must have made an offer close enough to keep the conversation moving for multiple weeks.

 

Not really.  There were two major holiday breaks in there so it wasn't non-stop negotiations.  And it's not clear how close the negotiations ever got since the Twins were pretty desperate for another team to get involved.  Considering how the FO approached this offseason, I think they desperately wanted to trade Dozier but never got anything close to what they felt he was worth.  The media reported that the Dodgers weren't going to include a number of prospects and after the Forsythe trade, the Dodgers media informed everyone that the Dodgers didn't consider De Leon an elite prospect.  That seems to suggest that the teams were never very close to a deal.  

[Mike Sixel]

It boggles the mind people that have no source at all are so sure what was, or was not, offered. 

[drivlikejehu]

 

I wouldn't say it has zero informational value, it shows what the Twins originally wanted, if the Dodgers weren't willing to give up anything resembling that trade then chances are they wouldn't have "negotiated" for months on end. So it seems that it can potentially be concluded that while the Dodgers didn't want to give up JDL+Alvarez+Calhoun, they must have made an offer close enough to keep the conversation moving for multiple weeks.

 

 

Though communications took place over a period of time, we don't know how lengthy the actual discussions/communications were, and even if they did speak a fair amount, it could be related to various efforts at getting creative (e.g., the rumored 3-team attempt) rather than pure haggling over value.

 

Nor do we know whether the Dodgers ever made an actual offer. If anything, the "value" of Morosi's tweet is the fact that they leaked something about what the Twins asked for, rather than what the Dodgers themselves were willing to part with. 

[DaveW]

 

It boggles the mind people that have no source at all are so sure what was, or was not, offered. 

I think both teams typically play things rather close to the vest. Interesting to see what else Morosi reports and what else "officially" comes out.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Ergo, we continue to lack any rational ability to judge whether the Twins made the right decision. Anyone who claims otherwise is either relying on Dave's source or making up one in their imagination.

 

It's funny to see one person like this who is saying the exact opposite of this.

 

I agree, we're a bit in the dark about whether this was the right or wrong decision.  I'm hoping more is leaked from the Dodger's side, because the Twins went silent after a few of their obvious leaks.

[Squirrel]

 

It boggles the mind people that have no source at all are so sure what was, or was not, offered. 

Yes, it does ... on BOTH sides of this.

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

It boggles the mind people that have no source at all are so sure what was, or was not, offered.

 

Why do you put so little stock in the reporting of Passan, Rosenthal, Heyman, Neal, Berardino, and a handful of other Dodgers and Twins reporters with close ties to their teams?

[nicksaviking]

 

Why do you put so little stock in the reporting of Passan, Rosenthal, Heyman, Neal, Berardino, and a handful of other Dodgers and Twins reporters with close ties to their teams?

 

None of those reporters have given anything close to an enlightening assessment of what was offered.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

None of those reporters have given anything close to an enlightening assessment of what was offered.

How about what was not offered?

[DaveW]

 

How about what was not offered?

I have yet to see any of them specifically say "Alvarez etc was never on the table"

[TheLeviathan]

 

Why do you put so little stock in the reporting of Passan, Rosenthal, Heyman, Neal, Berardino, and a handful of other Dodgers and Twins reporters with close ties to their teams?

 

I put some stock into it, but the first three seemed to be regurgitating what the last two said.  And the last two were likely getting their info from the Twins.

 

In fairness, the Dodgers were incredibly tight-lipped, so they didn't really have anything but what the Twins were spinning through their beat guys.  It's why i hope more comes from the Dodgers, even two reports that are biased are better than one.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Fascinating.

[Mike Sixel]

 

How about what was not offered?

 

Personally? Most leaks are done for PR purposes, so I don't trust any of them all that much. I can't recall, other than the Deadspin leaks of the Astros actual emails, any time we actually knew what was, or was not, offered in trades that did not happen.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Personally? Most leaks are done for PR purposes, so I don't trust any of them all that much. I can't recall, other than the Deadspin leaks of the Astros actual emails, any time we actually knew what was, or was not, offered in trades that did not happen.

there is a difference between a leak and a report.

 

Leak: someone like Doogie Wolfson says he hears the Cardinals are very interested in Dozier

 

Report: someone like Berardino says "according to *sources*, Alvarez was not on the table."

 

See what I mean?

 

There were leaks, but there were also many, many reliable reports during this whole episode.

[Mike Sixel]

 

there is a difference between a leak and a report.

Leak: someone like Doogie Wolfson says he hears the Cardinals are very interested in Dozier

Report: someone like Berardino says "according to *sources*, Alvarez was not on the table."

See what I mean?

There were leaks, but there were also many, many reliable reports during this whole episode.

 

You asked why I didn't trust the media on this, I answered why I don't trust them. Not asking you to agree or not, just answering why I don't.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

You asked why I didn't trust the media on this, I answered why I don't trust them. Not asking you to agree or not, just answering why I don't.

You also pretty much claimed that the national media have no sources.

[Mike Sixel]

 

You also pretty much claimed that the national media have no sources.

 

if I did that, I was wrong. everyone has sources. 

[TheLeviathan]

I guess I don't see why "according to sources" can't be a purposeful leak.  

[Mike Sixel]

 

You also pretty much claimed that the national media have no sources.

 

Where did I claim that? Just curious, so I can improve my posting.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

Where did I claim that? Just curious, so I can improve my posting.

It was an earlier post today. I apologize. I am not trying to be confrontational, I just genuinely don't get it. We had multiple trustworthy reporters with inside sources who do this for a living tell us (among other things) that the Dodgers would not offer Alvarez.

[nicksaviking]

I agree, this stuff has gone on long enough, I can't imagine anything posted in this thread in the past 20 pages by any of us has been anything but unconstructive and redundant. Let's go talk baseball in the other threads, I'm locking this. If another mod or an owner want to reopen it at some point down the road they can.