POTUS Donald Trump

[gunnarthor]

 

The consensus that the Katrina comment constitutes the bulk of the evidence that Barbara Bush was a racist and bigot is pretty much what I expected. It makes me sad rather than mad.

 

But I'm not going to defend her comment or her life. The former doesn't warrant a defense, and the latter doesn't need one.

 

Instead, I'm just going to say that I respected Michelle Obama a great deal as a First Lady and role model, and then I'm going to invite your kind attention to your left foot. Is there a shoe on it that matches the one on the right?

 

There should be (especially if you're at work), and if you listen very carefully, you can hear that shoe saying "For the first time in my adult lifetime, I’m really proud of my country".

 

What your left shoe is trying to tell you is that a single quote from a person constantly in the public eye is a vastly inferior way to take stock of that person's life compared to their actions.

 

And gunnar, your left shoe is also saying it's time for new Odor Eaters.

Meh, my shoes are fine.

 

I didn't see a lot of her actions as you did. I don't remember her much during her run as a first wife. I'm sure she did first wife stuff but, frankly, first wives were supposed to be elegant ladies wearing dresses and hosting dinner parties, etc. Hilary Clinton changed how we perceived the role of first lady (and man, did she get **** for that). 

 

Most of my dislike for Barbara Bush came during her son's Presidency. The Katrina remarks, the support of a wasteful war, her general tone which I found to be snobbish but you could call elitist. The idea that criticism of her family was criticizing America. Trump wasn't the first ******* to make those arguments. 

 

It's a little off tangent but what remarks do you want? Do we just forget that she insulted thousands of people in an ugly racist manner? I know we've gotten to a point where people talking about racism is offensive but isn't the idea that a former first lady and President's mother telling all these folks to be grateful for what they are getting a bit much to gloss over? 

 

She lived a great life. She amassed wealth and power and made her children incredibly powerful. I hope my wife pulls off the same for our kids. But it doesn't mean she was a "good" person or that we can't answer 'what did she do that was racist' when a person asks.

[TheLeviathan]

All of those things can be true and she could still have achieved a lot of good too. The problem is how selectively dismissive or emphatic we are about a persons life when we have an axe to grind.

 

We should knock that #$&* off. Across the board.

[Craig Arko]

The only comment I dare make on this thread at this point, is that in the annals of First Ladies, never forget Eleanor Roosevelt, who was perhaps the most impactful of them all.

 

Enjoy.

[PseudoSABR]

It's okay to criticize people who do good things. It's also okay to admire people who sometimes do/say bad things. What's not okay is taking either the criticism/admiration and generalizing it to group of people/political party or personalizing it to a specific poster. 

[Mr. Brooks]

It's okay to criticize people who do good things. It's also okay to admire people who sometimes do/say bad things. What's not okay is taking either the criticism/admiration and generalizing it to group of people/political party or personalizing it to a specific poster.

Well said.

[USAFChief]

 

The only comment I dare make on this thread at this point, is that in the annals of First Ladies, never forget Eleanor Roosevelt, who was perhaps the most impactful of them all.

 

Enjoy.

I had the same thought.

[D. Hocking]

 

It would be interesting to hear you elaborate on this if you wouldn't mind.

 

Sorry - I missed this and figured since I was asked, I should at least respond, although I think the discussion has run its course.

 

My not being her biggest fan, like an early post said, was from the days of the W administration.   The Katrina remark is the one that stands out, but there were other things she said during those years that I did not care for (which at this point cannot remember making for a really good argument).  I know it was not just the Katrina statement.   

 

That said, I am also not her biggest critic.  I do think she was tough, smart, and was not afraid to speak her mind or call out her party.  I admire the way she handled her last days when she knew the end was near, and whatever their history, she and George seemed to have a true partnership.  

 

 

[LaBombo]

 

Meh, my shoes are fine.

 

I didn't see a lot of her actions as you did. I don't remember her much during her run as a first wife. I'm sure she did first wife stuff but, frankly, first wives were supposed to be elegant ladies wearing dresses and hosting dinner parties, etc. Hilary Clinton changed how we perceived the role of first lady (and man, did she get **** for that). 

 

Most of my dislike for Barbara Bush came during her son's Presidency. The Katrina remarks, the support of a wasteful war, her general tone which I found to be snobbish but you could call elitist. The idea that criticism of her family was criticizing America. Trump wasn't the first ******* to make those arguments. 

 

It's a little off tangent but what remarks do you want? Do we just forget that she insulted thousands of people in an ugly racist manner? I know we've gotten to a point where people talking about racism is offensive but isn't the idea that a former first lady and President's mother telling all these folks to be grateful for what they are getting a bit much to gloss over? 

 

She lived a great life. She amassed wealth and power and made her children incredibly powerful. I hope my wife pulls off the same for our kids. But it doesn't mean she was a "good" person or that we can't answer 'what did she do that was racist' when a person asks.

 

I've made an honest effort to find anything in your remarks that suggest that you're judging her life by anything other than a highly partisan double standard and I haven't succeeded, so I'm just going to leave it at that.

[gunnarthor]

 

I've made an honest effort to find anything in your remarks that suggest that you're judging her life by anything other than a highly partisan double standard and I haven't succeeded, so I'm just going to leave it at that.

You missed the part where I ripped the Democrat for offensive racist remarks, too? 

[gunnarthor]

Back to Trump: he got sued again for defamation by the pornstar. 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/30/politics/stormy-daniels-defamation-lawsuit/index.html

 

He's really taken a bit of the ol' shine off the Presidency. 

[D. Hocking]

 

Back to Trump: he got sued again for defamation by the pornstar. 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/30/politics/stormy-daniels-defamation-lawsuit/index.html

 

He's really taken a bit of the ol' shine off the Presidency. 

 

I would not mind if he got a few more of these suits.  He does not even try to be truthful or based in reality anymore.   Some of his personal attacks are pretty over-the-top and reckless.

 

 

The only comment I dare make on this thread at this point, is that in the annals of First Ladies, never forget Eleanor Roosevelt, who was perhaps the most impactful of them all.

 

Enjoy.

 

I think Dolly had some impact  as well - in addition to saving Washington's portrait.

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Giuliani lol

[TheLeviathan]

Hiring Rudy is only going to hasten this whole process.

[D. Hocking]

I am assuming this is fake - but I still like it.  Probably not the way Hannity wanted the interview to go.

 

[biggentleben]

 

Does that one sentence offset her contributions to promote literacy? Or any other positive contributions?

Why are we so willing to cast aside people entirely for any affront? Go ahead and criticize the remark, but good lord have perspective.

 

Yep. I remember talking with a Pizza Hut VIP when they were in town after our store in town burned down. I mentioned that one thing I'd really miss about Pizza Hut if they left town was the Book It program. He shared that he came to Pizza Hut through that program in the early 90s, and that without lobbying by Barbara after her husband left office for Republicans to work with Democrats on a plan, it's quite feasible that great reading program would have disappeared in the mid-1990s due to the grant the program originally began with expiring. She got a new grant in place, the same grant that Dolly Parton uses with her reading program (which is an amazing program for kids, by the way).

[gunnarthor]

Well Trump has now admitted to paying the 130k through an attorney. It's like all his previous denials were just lies.

[Squirrel]

 

Well Trump has now admitted to paying the 130k through an attorney. It's like all his previous denials were just lies.

It's like they were lies or is it that they were lies?

[ashbury]

It's like they were lies or is it that they were lies?

Probably I've said this already, but when I tell people that I think Trump is fundamentally crooked, I don't mean in any sense of specific crimes. I just mean that, with him, nothing is ever quite straight.

[D. Hocking]

It is hard to imagine how hiring someone to be your lawyer who really has not done much legal practice in close to 30 years, is known for liking to promote himself and speaking impulsively, has shown that he is more likely going to be a sycophant and not give you an honest opinion when needed, could possibly have gone wrong.

[USAFChief]

 

Well Trump has now admitted to paying the 130k through an attorney. It's like all his previous denials were just lies.

does anyone who voted for Trump even care?

 

I doubt it. I mean, they know worse about Trump, and that hasn't mattered. So this will? I guess we'll see. I'm not counting any chickens yet, I know that.

[PseudoSABR]

 

It's like they were lies or is it that they were lies?

This whole revised his statement narrative is maddening.  Though it's such a non-surprise that he was lying, it's not news at all.  We live in the nether world.

[PseudoSABR]

 

does anyone who voted for Trump even care?

 

I doubt it. I mean, they know worse about Trump, and that hasn't mattered. So this will? I guess we'll see. I'm not counting any chickens yet, I know that.

I care.  You should care.  Let's not make it easy for them by shrugging our shoulders.  There's plenty of Trump voters who regret their choice/candidate.  Maybe we can't win them over but we can't allow them to assume the moral high ground ever again.  Ever again.

[TheLeviathan]

I just worry that banging the drum of "he paid off the porn star he slept with!" doesn't accomplish what some people think it does.

 

I think for many Trump trogolodytes....the whole issue is amusing and speaks to why they love him.

 

You want to pound Trump and help lose elections for Republicans?  Pound him on the lies that matter to them like: He keeps saying his wall is being built and it isn't.  He's screwing over rural whites who are being gouged thanks to his trade wars.  Etc.

 

This?  This may actually have the opposite effect.  Call him out for the lies and the shady stuff, sure.  But that's not the drum to bang.

[gunnarthor]

 

does anyone who voted for Trump even care?

 

I doubt it. I mean, they know worse about Trump, and that hasn't mattered. So this will? I guess we'll see. I'm not counting any chickens yet, I know that.

I don't care if the people who voted for him still support him. Stupid is as stupid does. 

 

But he's a disgrace to the office. He's racist. He's made America worse. And he's such an horrible piece of **** that he has to pay women for sex and has to pay them to not talk about it.

[TheLeviathan]

He's all of those things....and he's the President....because people voted for him. (And care to support him further)

 

I wish the left cared a little more about being effective over being indignant.  

[Badsmerf]

I agree and disagree Levi. Lies should never be accepted from the president. We should never allow a criminal to be given a free pass because he's powerful.

 

On the other hand, you need to win elections. Call out the con that matters to supporters. The know he is a womanizer, they know he lies, they know he is who he is. Focus the attack on the bridge that he built to reach these people. The wall, the swamp, the 1%, the tax bill, the tariffs, China, etc. Chip at the promises and absolute failure policies.

[TheLeviathan]

I agree and disagree Levi. Lies should never be accepted from the president. We should never allow a criminal to be given a free pass because he's powerful.

On the other hand, you need to win elections. Call out the con that matters to supporters. The know he is a womanizer, they know he lies, they know he is who he is. Focus the attack on the bridge that he built to reach these people. The wall, the swamp, the 1%, the tax bill, the tariffs, China, etc. Chip at the promises and absolute failure policies.

You can do both, absolutely. I just feel like the emphasis is too much on the former and not the latter.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I wish the left cared a little more about being effective over being indignant.  

Not that I am endorsing indignance but I think the left being pragmatic is how you ended up the Clintons, Gores and Kerrys as their candidates.  I think the left should be authentic and not bend over backwards trying to appeal to everyone and thereby appealing to no one really.   That said, the left should be wary of being righteous; showing authentic disgust with genuinely disgusting behavior I don't think comes off as sanctimonious as some seem to fear.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Not that I am endorsing indignance but I think the left being pragmatic is how you ended up the Clintons, Gores and Kerrys as their candidates.  I think the left should be authentic and not bend over backwards trying to appeal to everyone and thereby appealing to no one really.   That said, the left should be wary of being righteous; showing authentic disgust with genuinely disgusting behavior I don't think comes off as sanctimonious as some seem to fear.

 

It's more the amount of time being spent on it relative to more effective attacks.  

 

I disagree about pragmatic democrats.  The problem with Clinton, Gore, and Kerry was a total absence of personality.  Obama was a very pragmatic President.  That didn't hold him back.

[USAFChief]

I don't care if the people who voted for him still support him. Stupid is as stupid does.

 

But he's a disgrace to the office. He's racist. He's made America worse. And he's such an horrible piece of **** that he has to pay women for sex and has to pay them to not talk about it.

And that matters...how?

 

Was your mind changed by this? Was any Trump supporting voter's mind changed?

 

I doubt it. And nothing else matters.