Park's Posting Fee

[mudcat14]

Does anyone know if the $10mil or so posting fee for Park was paid to the KBO up front, or is it spread out over the length of his contract?

 

Does it just represent another poorly spent $15mil for this season, and $25mil over the contract that they could have spent loading up on mid-level salary arms in hopes that some would click, like Kintzler & Abad.  When you consider they already had cheaper options for Park's AB's in Vargas & Arcia, plus Sano if the whole RF thing didn't work (it didn't), it just seems like a glaring example of why TR had to go.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I don't see why it wouldn't be paid up front. The KBO posting fee is completely separate from the contract itself, which could have spanned any number of years.

 

How the Twins treat the costs incurred from the posting fee could be spread out over multiple years, though.

[howieramone2]

Does anyone know if the $10mil or so posting fee for Park was paid to the KBO up front, or is it spread out over the length of his contract?

 

Does it just represent another poorly spent $15mil for this season, and $25mil over the contract that they could have spent loading up on mid-level salary arms in hopes that some would click, like Kintzler & Abad. When you consider they already had cheaper options for Park's AB's in Vargas & Arcia, plus Sano if the whole RF thing didn't work (it didn't), it just seems like a glaring example of why TR had to go.

Park was a classic low risk/high reward move. It was reported here, 16 teams bid on Park. Antony advised 2 teams were very close to our winning bid. He signed a team friendly contract, and after this season he still has 2 options left. He's a capable 1B, so he can play in the AL and NL. Park can be flipped at anytime.

[nicksaviking]

I don't see why it wouldn't be paid up front. The KBO posting fee is completely separate from the contract itself, which could have spanned any number of years.

 

How the Twins treat the costs incurred from the posting fee could be spread out over multiple years, though.

Agreed, they could "spread it out" but that would be deceptive since it's not player salary. I don't see how that posting fee is any different than other costs of doing business, like adding a new bar at Target Field, increasing advertising, donating to a charity or upgrading facilities at the Dominican Academy.

[Rosterman]

So the cost is all absorbed this season for the posting fee? I do assume that a team would just be taking on his contract for the remainder of the run, so the Twins would have the initial big expenditure up front if they chose to part ways with Park.

[DaveW]

Playing in the Major Leagues, producing runs & K's at about the same rate as Park was, with an average about 40 points higher.

Also playing at significantly less of a salary!

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Playing in the Major Leagues, producing runs & K's at about the same rate as Park was, with an average about 40 points higher. 

Listen, I thought the Arcia decision was pretty dumb but this is a terrible rebuttal.

 

It now appears Park was injured, which puts into question his early performance.

 

And the Twins called up Vargas, who is absolutely mashing the ball.

 

And all of these guys have a ridiculously SSS so none of this data is even a little bit conclusive.

[Mr. Brooks]

Listen, I thought the Arcia decision was pretty dumb but this is a terrible rebuttal.

 

It now appears Park was injured, which puts into question his early performance.

 

And the Twins called up Vargas, who is absolutely mashing the ball.

 

And all of these guys have a ridiculously SSS so none of this data is even a little bit conclusive.

Except the Twins went out of their way to state that Park was never injured.

Not saying they are above lying, but one of the two is.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Except the Twins went out of their way to state that Park was never injured.
Not saying they are above lying, but one of the two is.

Or maybe Park didn't admit to them he was hurt. That's not an unusual thing to happen, particularly with wrist injuries... A slightly wonky wrist may only have a slight amount of pain but can drastically impact the results of swinging a baseball bat.

 

In any case, drawing any kind of conclusion about Park on July 24th, 2016 is stupid. Time will tell whether he is capable of hitting MLB pitching.

[Otto von Ballpark]

This has been discussed here before.

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/21441-terry-ryan-i-am-not-a-fan/page-14

 

http://www.twincities.com/2016/02/12/local-tv-deal-doesnt-hamper-twins-payroll-team-president-says/

 

"For accounting purposes, St. Peter said, the Twins will count the pro-rated portion of the $12.85 million they gave the Nexen Heroes of the Korea Baseball Organization to win exclusive bidding rights for Park. That’s an additional $3.2 million over the next four seasons that wouldn’t be counted against the luxury tax but indeed goes toward player costs."

[Jham]

I've heard a lot of Park bashing. But I've yet to hear the "we could have signed more kinzlers" argument. We broke camp with Fien, Jepson, and Perkins who were all similar or better profiles than the guys you are suggesting. At any rate i highly doubt the park signing had any bearing whatsoever on what we spent on the bull pen.

[Mr. Brooks]

Or maybe Park didn't admit to them he was hurt. That's not an unusual thing to happen, particularly with wrist injuries... A slightly wonky wrist may only have a slight amount of pain but can drastically impact the results of swinging a baseball bat.

 

In any case, drawing any kind of conclusion about Park on July 24th, 2016 is stupid. Time will tell whether he is capable of hitting MLB pitching.

Yes, it's too early for an absolute conclusion. But, at Park's age, you aren't signing him as a developmental project. His signing needs to be looked at from a results based perspective from the get go. He's already on the back side of his prime years.

[nicksaviking]

This has been discussed here before.http://twinsdaily.com/topic/21441-terry-ryan-i-am-not-a-fan/page-14http://www.twincities.com/2016/02/12/local-tv-deal-doesnt-hamper-twins-payroll-team-president-says/

"For accounting purposes, St. Peter said, the Twins will count the pro-rated portion of the $12.85 million they gave the Nexen Heroes of the Korea Baseball Organization to win exclusive bidding rights for Park. That’s an additional $3.2 million over the next four seasons that wouldn’t be counted against the luxury tax but indeed goes toward player costs."

If a trade were to occur, the Twins obviously could ask the buying club for money as well as Park, but no other club is obligated to pay the posting fee. If the Twins want to pretend it's salary, they surely can to make the payroll look better to fans. However Park doesn't have to report that on his W2s; it's not salary.

 

"Player costs" is vague and misleading. They could list their international scouts' salaries, travel expenses and the cost of uniforms as "player costs" if they wanted to.

 

Not that it really matters, with the youth of this club, payroll shouldn't be an issue for a half decade at least.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Yes, it's too early for an absolute conclusion. But, at Park's age, you aren't signing him as a developmental project. His signing needs to be looked at from a results based perspective from the get go. He's already on the back side of his prime years.

Park should be expected to adapt more quickly than a 24 year old but being results-focused from day one isn't a good approach, either.

 

Park has 200-something MLB plate appearances. Now we find out he may have played with a dinged-up wrist. That puts into doubt everything we saw thus far (and what we've seen is a small enough sample to not know much in the first place).

 

If Park has 500 MLB plate appearances and hasn't shown more consistency, it's a problem. He doesn't have a long timeline to enter boom/bust territory but it's certainly longer than a bit more than two months of a season where he may have been injured.

[mudcat14]

Sorry, first I've heard about a Park wrist injury.  My point was that it was a $25mil gamble on a player at a spot where we already had several cheaper yet risky options.  I hope Byung-ho makes me eat my words, believe me.  I'm probably just frustrated that after steering clear of the Free Agent pool for 30+ years, the Twins are finally taking the plunge but seem completely unable to swim.

[jay]

Does it just represent another poorly spent $15mil for this season, and $25mil over the contract that they could have spent loading up on mid-level salary arms in hopes that some would click, like Kintzler & Abad.

The goal of targeting more pitchers like Kintzler and Abad is interesting. Those are the exact types of pitchers that TR was frequently ridiculed for signing as "dumpster diving" and not chasing higher dollar free agents. Then again, that only seemed to hold true until they pan out, so maybe this makes sense after all...

[TheLeviathan]

These aren't mutually exclusive. The problem isn't Abad and Kintzler like moves. The problem is that it's only Kintzler and Abad type moves.

[Thrylos]

 

Sorry, first I've heard about a Park wrist injury.  My point was that it was a $25mil gamble on a player at a spot where we already had several cheaper yet risky options.  I hope Byung-ho makes me eat my words, believe me.  I'm probably just frustrated that after steering clear of the Free Agent pool for 30+ years, the Twins are finally taking the plunge but seem completely unable to swim.

 

That was not much of a plunge.  Smaller than E. Santana, Hughes and Nolasco.

 

The other thing that has to be mentioned.  The Twins can "sell" Park to a Japanese or Korean team and recover a lot of the posting fee $ as well as nullify the remaining of his contract, if he so agrees.

 

So there is an out (and Nishioka took a similar,) unlike with most of the players.

[Primetime82]

 

Does anyone know if the $10mil or so posting fee for Park was paid to the KBO up front, or is it spread out over the length of his contract?

 

Does it just represent another poorly spent $15mil for this season, and $25mil over the contract that they could have spent loading up on mid-level salary arms in hopes that some would click, like Kintzler & Abad.  When you consider they already had cheaper options for Park's AB's in Vargas & Arcia, plus Sano if the whole RF thing didn't work (it didn't), it just seems like a glaring example of why TR had to go.

You forgot to mention we also have Palka and Walker in waiting. They are all basically the same player but Park might have the least value because the others can play the OF. Just another dumb signing by Terry and company.

[John Bonnes]

FWIW, he's raking in Rochester so far. AS his K/BB is just 2/1 there. I think there is a good chance we see him again, and if we don't, it'll be because they already have a solution there, like Vargas. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

Sorry, first I've heard about a Park wrist injury. My point was that it was a $25mil gamble on a player at a spot where we already had several cheaper yet risky options. I hope Byung-ho makes me eat my words, believe me. I'm probably just frustrated that after steering clear of the Free Agent pool for 30+ years, the Twins are finally taking the plunge but seem completely unable to swim.

IMO, the Park signing was the biggest mistake of the offseason.

 

Well, okay, maybe the bullpen. That was huge.

 

But I didn't see the point in signing Park. The Twins had Arcia, Sano, Plouffe, and Vargas competing for the DH/3B spots. The Park signing forced a bunch of bad decisions down the chain.

 

A roster on Opening Day with Sano and Arcia fighting for DH reps is a decent approach. One Plouffe injury and Sano rotates over to third, opening a spot for Vargas.

 

Given the market for third basemen, trading Plouffe was a non-starter in December. I can understand the front office's desire to not hand away a productive player under team control.

 

But signing Park forced so many bad ideas. So many.

[mudcat14]

 

That was not much of a plunge.  Smaller than E. Santana, Hughes and Nolasco.

 

Those signings, along with Willingham & Pelfrey deals are what I consider 'The Plunge.'  Combined, they have netted single good seasons from Willingham & Hughes, and little else.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

FWIW, he's raking in Rochester so far. AS his K/BB is just 2/1 there. I think there is a good chance we see him again, and if we don't, it'll be because they already have a solution there, like Vargas. 

 

I've been watching that too. He's apparently recovered from that injury. I think if Molly gets creative, you can get both of them in the lineup with some consistency. Might mean Mauer gets more time on the bench, but given Joe's performance, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'd like to see both Park and Vargas get plenty of PT down the stretch. Potentially one can get traded, as there's always a team looking for a DH that can mash.

[mudcat14]

 

IMO, the Park signing was the biggest mistake of the offseason.

Well, okay, maybe the bullpen. That was huge.

But I didn't see the point in signing Park. The Twins had Arcia, Sano, Plouffe, and Vargas competing for the DH/3B spots. The Park signing forced a bunch of bad decisions down the chain.

A roster on Opening Day with Sano and Arcia fighting for DH reps is a decent approach. One Plouffe injury and Sano rotates over to third, opening a spot for Vargas.

Given the market for third basemen, trading Plouffe was a non-starter in December. I can understand the front office's desire to not hand away a productive player under team control.

But signing Park forced so many bad ideas. So many.

 

Thank you, Brock.  That's what I was trying to say.  I was just saying it very poorly.

[Mr. Brooks]

I've been watching that too. He's apparently recovered from that injury. I think if Molly gets creative, you can get both of them in the lineup with some consistency. Might mean Mauer gets more time on the bench, but given Joe's performance, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'd like to see both Park and Vargas get plenty of PT down the stretch. Potentially one can get traded, as there's always a team looking for a DH that can mash.

Agree that if they decide to bring Park back up, and Vargas is still hitting, Mauer needs to move to a bench role.

The question is, does this team have the guts to bench Joe.

[DaveW]

FWIW, he's raking in Rochester so far. AS his K/BB is just 2/1 there. I think there is a good chance we see him again, and if we don't, it'll be because they already have a solution there, like Vargas.

I would hope that a 30 year old 1B/DH type making this sort of money would be "raking" in AAA...

 

Park was a dumb signing to begin with, unless he does a 180 it will go down as (fortunately) the last of the Terry Ryan era terrible moves (that also forced Sano into RF to boot!)

 

In this lost season you might as well recall him, hopefully he can get hot/lucky for a few weeks and you can trade him in the off season and get something in return.

 

I have series doubts he will be ever able to hit "good" major league pitching. He looked so far behind anything good (after teams got the book on him)

[DaveW]

Agree that if they decide to bring Park back up, and Vargas is still hitting, Mauer needs to move to a bench role.

The question is, does this team have the guts to bench Joe.

You could play each one 2/3rds of the time (and use the odd man out each day as a PH)

 

Plenty of at bats to go around.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Agree that if they decide to bring Park back up, and Vargas is still hitting, Mauer needs to move to a bench role.
The question is, does this team have the guts to bench Joe.

 

In a lost season, I think they should make sure Park and Vargas get their PT, and if they shine, we have a nice problem for 2017.  Not sure I'm a fan of trading one of them given that Mauer only has 2 more years after this season, but I do think the team is going to have to get a bit creative here. Perhaps Mauer can play a little RF, or perhaps he just gets a lot more rest and starts spending more time on the bench. That isn't a bad thing.  He takes good, professional at bats. Not a bad pinch hitting option late game... expensive yes.

[Platoon]

Unfortunately this is a team that has less time to evaluate Park than many think. But the injury thing muddles the whole evaluation of the first 65% of the season. How badly was he injured? If he went to Rochester and not the DL, and is now hitting why didn't he stay here and heal? Is he hitting in Rochester for the same reason he hit in KBL? Quality of pitching. What is he hitting in Rochester? Hangers or 95 mph FB's? The problem with Park and Vargas is you can't keep them both. And that's without Sano being factored in. Sano will not continue to averag 2/3 of an error a game, but where will he settle in. This roster is like a Rubics Cube. Everytime you want to move a piece, it scares up 3 other pieces. Frankly by next spring the main decisions have to be made, or 2016 will be repeated.

[Riverbrian]

 

 

Log Jams are only Log Jams if you have actual logs. We thought that we were going to have a log jam this year but it turns out that we really didn't have one at all.

 

In a nutshell... Not enough logs yet

 

I'm hoping for an actual log jam someday so I'm Ok with the Park signing but I'm starting to wonder about our scouts who are running around Asia.