Twins Claim RHP Neil Ramirez

[jud6312]

 

In light of both the Cubs and the Brewers completely giving up on him in a span of about three weeks, I'd say the chances of him somehow regaining his 2014 form seem to be slim and none.

This. This was my exact thought. If one team cuts you loose, it's one thing. But for a second team to do it in less than a month, something isn't right.

 

Had this been a minor league signing it would've been one thing, but to bring in a guy who's wild, has seemingly lost juice on his fastball and has been deemed expendable twice in less than month and immediately hand him a big league job is ridiculous.

[ashbury]

Listening to Ryan this morning, I think it will be Chargois. He implied that he wanted him to have more innings at AAA but didn't have other options. They have another option now.

 

Man, what situation CAN'T this visual be applied to?

[LaBombo]

 

 And given his penchant for wildness, he's sure to add about 10-15 minutes of game length for each of his outings.

 

 

 

You called it,  Dr. j.  This move should make St. Peter happy.

 

Dave, I mean.    But probably not the actual Saint named Peter.

 

An extra 15 minutes of last call in the 6th innings of home game blowouts once or twice a week has gotta mean a couple thousand extra beers, as well as other, less lucrative concessions, right?

 

So... well done, front office!   We look forward to seeing the Neil Ramirez bonus beer money take the field next year in the form of a top-flight free agent!

[magiklair]

 

Well, guess Sean Burnett was not a viable candidate to call up and add to the 40-man. Look for him to walk.....

Well he hasn't pitched much and particularly well. So would understand if he walked

[KGB]

Is it okay to start missing Blaine Boyer and his 2.00 ERA?

[Riverbrian]

 

This. This was my exact thought. If one team cuts you loose, it's one thing. But for a second team to do it in less than a month, something isn't right.

 

Had this been a minor league signing it would've been one thing, but to bring in a guy who's wild, has seemingly lost juice on his fastball and has been deemed expendable twice in less than month and immediately hand him a big league job is ridiculous.

 

Sometimes it just takes an opportunity for guys like these to change their baseball fate and often times it just isn't going to work out.

 

I wish Neil well.

 

I continue to be impressed by Grossman and I hope he has a long career in a Twins uniform. 

 

However... I remain concerned, bothered, actually somewhat angry because my Twins are my primary summer investment... And my summer has been blown.

 

Blown because professional assessments of our professional talent were so far off the mark that we can now offer professional opportunity to the "I have no place else to go" athlete and we are bringing them in by the busload. 

 

They are not being brought in for the last spots on the 25 man... They are being brought in to handle key positions... To stop the bleeding. 

 

Grossman is BATTING 2ND. Centeno has been our BEST Catcher. Dean is our best starter right now. Kintzler is our CLOSER... think about that... Kintzler is our closer. There would be no reason to be shocked if Neil Ramirez moves immediately into an 8th inning set up role for Kintzler. 

 

The degree that this team is being re-built on the fly is causing fans like me G Force type motion sickness and those G force facial expressions. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Is it okay to start missing Blaine Boyer and his 2.00 ERA?

It must mean something negative about Ramirez when the Brewers would rather keep Blaine Boyer instead of Ramirez, even though they're building for the future and Boyer is seven years older (unless you think the TR brain trust has outfoxed another front office again).

[scottz]

We're gonna win Twins! We're gonna win Twins! We're gonna win Twins! We're gonna win Twins! We're gonna win Twins! We're gonna win Twins! We're gonna win Twins! We're gonna win Twins! We're gonna win Twins! We're gonna win Twins! We're gonna win Twins! We're gonna win Twins! We're gonna win Twins! We're gonna win Twins! We're gonna win Twins! We're gonna win Twins! We're gonna win Twins! We're gonna win Twins! We're gonna win Twins! We're gonna win Twins! We're gonna win Twins!

 

Former cast-off Ramirez man pitches Twins to World Series! Chargois can eat a whole bag! Back to AAA! 

Also, we are really good at baseball.

[Platoon]

Sometimes it just takes an opportunity for guys like these to change their baseball fate and often times it just isn't going to work out.

 

I wish Neil well.

 

I continue to be impressed by Grossman and I hope he has a long career in a Twins uniform. 

 

However... I remain concerned, bothered, actually somewhat angry because my Twins are my primary summer investment... And my summer has been blown.

 

Blown because professional assessments of our professional talent were so far off the mark that we can now offer professional opportunity to the "I have no place else to go" athlete and we are bringing them in by the busload. 

 

They are not being brought in for the last spots on the 25 man... They are being brought in to handle key positions... To stop the bleeding. 

 

Grossman is BATTING 2ND. Centeno has been our BEST Catcher. Dean is our best starter right now. Kintzler is our CLOSER... think about that... Kintzler is our closer. There would be no reason to be shocked if Neil Ramirez moves immediately into an 8th inning set up role for Kintzler. 

 

The degree that this team is being re-built on the fly is causing fans like me G Force type motion sickness and those G force facial expressions.

 

You forgot, 'Plouffe is our cleanup hitter' and 'Nunez is our best player'!

[Vanimal46]

I don't mind this pick up, since as others have said, he has past success. What I can't stand is another example of the organization jerking around another prospect in Chargois. 1 freaking game for Chargois and he's already sent down?! Frustrating... Very frustrating. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Is it okay to start missing Blaine Boyer and his 2.00 ERA?

I'm not sure why we'd miss Boyer, he's effectively been replaced by another former Brewer, Brandon Kintzler (2.81 ERA).

 

Had we tried to roster Boyer again this spring, I think Tonkin (3.38 ERA, 10.7 K/9) would have been the likely casualty.

 

Also note that Boyer's ERA has been compiled at lower leverage than either Tonkin or Kintzler.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Listening to Ryan this morning, I think it will be Chargois. He implied that he wanted him to have more innings at AAA but didn't have other options.

It isn't true that they didn't have other options.  They still have Alex Meyer injured and inactive, he hasn't pitched in 40 days.  It would be trivial to add him to the 60-day DL at this point.  Even if he miraculously was ready to pitch before the 60 days were up, he could do so under the guise of a a rehab assignment.

 

Then, we could have added any of Rochester's starters to serve as our long reliever over the weekend.  (Bonus points, it would have given us an actual long reliever, which we have lacked in our pen for some time.)

 

The only reason to resist this is because we don't want to give Meyer the MLB salary and service time associated with the 60-day DL, but I have a feeling he is going to be awarded that eventually anyway.

[wsnydes]

 

 

I continue to be impressed by Grossman and I hope he has a long career in a Twins uniform. 

Generally speaking, I think Grossman has been a pretty good addition to the roster so far.  That being said, I'm continually frustrated by his inability to properly back up Buxton.  He needs to understand Buxton's range and that if he's not positive that he's going to get to the ball, he needs to break off his pursuit and back up his centerfielder.  

[Mike Sixel]

I can think of like 4 different ways this could have been handled, if they didn't want Chargois up......and yet, they called him up. Then, they put him in against one of the best lineups in the game, and he got bombed. Then, rather than say "hey, tough outing, but we still believe in you", they seem to have decided to say "you weren't ready, we called you up anyway, but that wasn't our fault".

[Vanimal46]

 

I can think of like 4 different ways this could have been handled, if they didn't want Chargois up......and yet, they called him up. Then, they put him in against one of the best lineups in the game, and he got bombed. Then, rather than say "hey, tough outing, but we still believe in you", they seem to have decided to say "you weren't ready, we called you up anyway, but that wasn't our fault".

Not to mention that they threw him to the heart of the Red Sox order in Pedroia, Bogaerts, and Big Papi. It's getting very old with how this team handles their prospects. 

[jorgenswest]

The Twins have shown little patience in developing their prospects once they hit AA. They match that will little patience for struggles of batter with less than 1000 PAs or pitcher with less than 50 starts at the AA and AAA level. Instead they bounce them back and forth upon their surprise that they struggle.

 

There is a lot to learn at those levels and 57 innings between the two levels isn't enough for most players. Calling up Chargois was the mistake.

[KGB]

 

I don't mind this pick up, since as others have said, he has past success. What I can't stand is another example of the organization jerking around another prospect in Chargois. 1 freaking game for Chargois and he's already sent down?! Frustrating... Very frustrating. 

Agree, but is Ramirez better than Casey Fien?  I was really hoping that dropping some of the veterans showed they were going to bring up some of the young pitchers but it looks like that is not the case.  I understood at the beginning of the year trying to buy time with veterans in a year you were hoping to contend, but I really think we should have moved past that idea by now. 

[Vanimal46]

 

Agree, but is Ramirez better than Casey Fien?  I was really hoping that dropping some of the veterans showed they were going to bring up some of the young pitchers but it looks like that is not the case.  I understood at the beginning of the year trying to buy time with veterans in a year you were hoping to contend, but I really think we should have moved past that idea by now. 

I have no idea if Ramirez is better than Casey Fien... To be honest I didn't know who Ramirez was until this morning. Much like you I was hoping to see the young pitchers too. Figured the ETA for Chargois, Burdi, and the likes were June or July this year. Sounds like they're going back to the dumpster to keep the winning percentage above .300.  

[Mike Sixel]

 

The Twins have shown little patience in developing their prospects once they hit AA. They match that will little patience for struggles of batter with less than 1000 PAs or pitcher with less than 50 starts at the AA and AAA level. Instead they bounce them back and forth upon their surprise that they struggle.

There is a lot to learn at those levels and 57 innings between the two levels isn't enough for most players. Calling up Chargois was the mistake.

 

But the FO had NO CHOICE. They were literally forced to do this. They are the victims here.

 

.......

[tobi0040]

Not to mention that they threw him to the heart of the Red Sox order in Pedroia, Bogaerts, and Big Papi. It's getting very old with how this team handles their prospects.

Yup. A team that is 25 games below zero should be focusing on prospects.

[tobi0040]

The Twins have shown little patience in developing their prospects once they hit AA. They match that will little patience for struggles of batter with less than 1000 PAs or pitcher with less than 50 starts at the AA and AAA level. Instead they bounce them back and forth upon their surprise that they struggle.

 

There is a lot to learn at those levels and 57 innings between the two levels isn't enough for most players. Calling up Chargois was the mistake.

Chargois has been lights out and will be almost 26 at the end of the year. Bringing him up on a team losing 70% of their games is exactly what we should be doing. The mistake is giving him one appearance to prove himself.

 

This FO literally has no clue what they are doing. Just a headless snake slithering around aimlessly

[Otto von Ballpark]

Interesting that Ramirez cleared the entire NL in waivers.  If we have a chance to get him through the AL, we could outright him to AAA.

 

If he sticks in MLB for the rest of this season, he should be arbitration eligible this winter as a "super two" player, probably getting around $1 mil?

[jorgenswest]

I don't know the answers to these questions.

 

Before the fall began in 2011, I would have been of the mind to bring up a prospect from AA and let them learn in the majors. It may take three years as it did for Hunter and Morneau, but they figured it out. I no longer sure that works so well for most prospects.

 

Perhaps the focus on prospects means having a plan. Maybe focus means having the discipline to make sure a players gets 1000 combined plate appearances in AA/AAA. Maybe it means a starter getting 50 starts or a reliever getting 100 innings between those levels.

 

I am not so certain that bringing up prospects with little or no AAA experience is equivalent to a focus on prospects.

 

I plan to look at some teams like the Cardinals and others whose players have more success upon reaching the majors. What was the path those players took through the minors?

 

Now I am in two opposing positions. I don't think the Twins can get out of the hole signing decline phase veterans to multiyear contracts. I don't think they can get out of the hole without patient development of their own prospects. Who do they fill the roster with?

 

I guess guys like Nunez, Grossman, Milone, Ramirez, Centeno, Schafer and Fien. Guys young enough when they were acquired that they might find a little upside given an opportunity to play. That isn't a recipe for winning now. Patient development of prospects is the recipe for winning in the future.

[wsnydes]

 

Now I am in two opposing positions. I don't think the Twins can get out of the hole signing decline phase veterans to multiyear contracts. I don't think they can get out of the hole without patient development of their own prospects. Who do they fill the roster with?

 

You sign decline phase veterans to short term contracts making sure that you don't block any of your prospects or otherwise deserving minor league players from jumping up to the major league level when ready.  Once a few of those pieces start to trickle to the MLB level, then you start to spend more on longer term contracts with viable veterans to fill in holes that you don't have in your own system.  The Twins are executing part of this, but they've managed to do it in an extremely putrid level (i.e. rotation).  However, they also do the opposite of this by signing the likes of Ryan Sweeney AND Carlos Quentin.  One of those signings I would have been okay with, but both accomplished nothing but take PT away from your top OF prospects.  The FO continues to compound that by bringing in the David Murphy's, Darin Mastroianni's, and Logan Shafer's of the world.  Those moves might be fine on a contending team to provide veteran depth, but that's the last thing this team could be considered so it's simply a waste of time and money.

[jorgenswest]

Chargois has been lights out and will be almost 26 at the end of the year. Bringing him up on a team losing 70% of their games is exactly what we should be doing. The mistake is giving him one appearance to prove himself.This FO literally has no clue what they are doing. Just a headless snake slithering around aimlessly

I looked at the top 10 relievers as sorted by fangraphs. I don't particularly think WAR is useful but it is a good set of relievers and a mix of closers and set up men. Of the 10, several were not successful at age 25 and still getting time in the minors.

 

Look at the careers and paths of Betances, Miller, Harris, Phelps, Wilson, Colome and Britton. I don't think any of them broke out before their age 26 season. Like Chargois, many were college pitchers and had an older start in the minors. Chargois was also slowed by losing two seasons to injury. Spending more of his age 25 season in AAA isn't going to hurt his development and isn't that different from other successful relievers.

[Vanimal46]

 

Chargois has been lights out and will be almost 26 at the end of the year. Bringing him up on a team losing 70% of their games is exactly what we should be doing. The mistake is giving him one appearance to prove himself.

This FO literally has no clue what they are doing. Just a headless snake slithering around aimlessly

IMO these moves reek of a desperate FO trying to save their jobs. They're showing zero patience with prospects, and are trying to throw anything at the wall in order to keep their jobs going forward. 

[jorgenswest]

Bringing up prospects is the best hope of selling tickets at this point even if it stalls their development.

[wsnydes]

 

IMO these moves reek of a desperate FO trying to save their jobs. They're showing zero patience with prospects, and are trying to throw anything at the wall in order to keep their jobs going forward. 

I'm starting to lean in this direction as well.  The irony is that if I were the one making those decisions, moves like these would only seal their fate.  This is the exact opposite of what is needed to be done.

[tobi0040]

IMO these moves reek of a desperate FO trying to save their jobs. They're showing zero patience with prospects, and are trying to throw anything at the wall in order to keep their jobs going forward.

That is where an owner needs to step in. You do one of two things. You fire the GM so you don't have this issue. Or you direct your GM to get younger and offer some re-assurance about his job, which hopefully is out of the question.

 

You simply can't have an insecure GM trying to win 58 games instead of 55.

[Vanimal46]

 

That is where an owner needs to step in. You do one of two things. You fire the GM so you don't have this issue. Or you direct your GM to get younger and offer some re-assurance about his job, which hopefully is out of the question.

You simply can't have an insecure GM trying to win 58 games instead of 55.

Couldn't agree more. From my point of view that's exactly what it looks like TR is trying to do - squeeze out another win or 2 in order to make this season not look like a complete disaster.