The Twins' Tickets Look Expensive

[Mike Sixel]

According to this, the Twins' tickets are in the top quarter of MLB in terms of price........

 

Do people think that makes sense, given the market? Are they pricing families out of going? I was surprised at the numbers, frankly.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-impact-of-wins-stadiums-and-economies-on-ticket-prices/

 

Most of the article is rambling, imo, not one of the better written FG articles. The only part that really stuck out was the impact of new stadiums on ticket prices, and the ranking of the Twins' prices compared to the league.

[Halsey Hall]

Spring training tickets went up $3 this year. It's getting hard to justify going to a game to watch a bunch of minor leaguers from the opposing team play some of the Twins regulars for 4 innings.  Greed.......

[Vanimal46]

The increase in price for tickets isn't great.... But one positive is at least they're still going with paper tickets, instead of the paper-less ticket route that the Yankees, and some NBA teams (Timberwolves are one of them) are doing. 

[bird]

Baseball priced the average family completely out of the equation a long long time ago. They just ratcheted up the costs for the above-average family.

[TheLeviathan]

Baseball has priced my family out.  We were once season ticket holders even.

[tobi0040]

I make it a point once a year to suck it up and bring my family out.  Just for the experience.  I usually target a day game during the week and take the day off work.  Usually you can find a season ticket holder that is procrastinating and lists his tickets the morning of or a few days prior and you can get a really good deal.   But by and large you need to find a great deal to make it somewhat reasonable.

[Thrylos]

Based on that article (with numbers up to 2015 btw, so no 2016 data) the Twins had the same price for the last 4 years.  And it is $33 in 2015 which is about $3 more than the league average, or about 12% more.   The housing index in Minneapolis (which is a good indication of what the market can afford) is 115, which means that it is 15% higher than the average.

 

So yeah, it is about right for the market  

[Oxtung]

 

The increase in price for tickets isn't great.... But one positive is at least they're still going with paper tickets, instead of the paper-less ticket route that the Yankees, and some NBA teams (Timberwolves are one of them) are doing. 

 

I was a season ticket holder last year and didn't have the option of paper tickets.  I had to use their mlb ballpark app to get in.  It depends on what your ticket package is.

[James]

 

Based on that article (with numbers up to 2015 btw, so no 2016 data) the Twins had the same price for the last 4 years.  And it is $33 in 2015 which is about $3 more than the league average, or about 12% more.   The housing index in Minneapolis (which is a good indication of what the market can afford) is 115, which means that it is 15% higher than the average.

 

So yeah, it is about right for the market

Great way to quantify that.  It's like the OPS+ for ticket prices.

 

But overall, the average price for tickets is too high.

[Thrylos]

On baseball and pricing:

 

The target market segment of baseball clubs for their rear ends to the seats customers has changed the last decade or two.

 

The old days it was totally targeted to loyal dedicated fans, whose last decision before they bought a ticket was a "Will I?" type of decision, thus the prices should have been able to allow them to answer with a "Yes", regardless of financial status (thus the $3 upper deck tickets in ballparks like the Metrodome, which also had $50 seats for other customers)

 

Now, the target market cegment is entertainment seekers, whose last decision before they buy a ticket is "which one?" i.e. they have answered the "will I?" decision and put $ aside for that.  (The Loyal dedicated fan does not have to answer the "which one" decision, because from 7-10PM every day he/she watches baseball.)  So you have potential buyers considering either going on a cruise or getting season tickets, getting a golf club membership vs season tickets, spending their vacation in the Summer in Europe or in the Spring in Florida, etc. as far as season ticket prices go.  Single game ticket buying decisions are weighted against going to a movie, going to a concert (checked those prices out btw?), going for dinner to a fancy restaurant etc.  This is the "experience" crowd.

 

Even "Average families" do the above things, so I am not sure that it is priced to drive them away. What is actually happening is that they cannot do both a vacation and a season ticket plan, which at some time they might had been able to afford.  So now they can still afford a season ticket plan instead of a vacation.

 

What that has resulted is a huge difference in the nature of the fans who are watching ballgames in the ballpark from the past.  The experience crowd, likely watches about half the plays (and most after they happened on the field in one of the multiple monitor or the huge one; and some times gets injured by flying stuff), hangs around in bars and restaurants in the ballpark, looks at the watch by the seventh inning and wants to leave to "beat the traffic", complains about the "long baseball games" and does not have the butt on seat glued to action, rooting for the team, and against the other, like it use to be when loyal fans were the majority of the fans in the ballgames 

 

Time are a'changing

[nicksaviking]

 

Based on that article (with numbers up to 2015 btw, so no 2016 data) the Twins had the same price for the last 4 years.  And it is $33 in 2015 which is about $3 more than the league average, or about 12% more.   The housing index in Minneapolis (which is a good indication of what the market can afford) is 115, which means that it is 15% higher than the average.

 

So yeah, it is about right for the market

 

If the Minneapolis index is used, then perhaps they should rename themselves the Minneapolis Twins because they are no longer reflective of the rest of the state in terms of affordablity.

[scottz]

I love sports of just about any kind and baseball more than any, but I am also a notorious cheapskate. I just can't justify paying the prices to attend games at face-value:

Family of 4 at $33 per - $132

Parking - $10 (or $15)

Food - $50 (conservatively - 2 dogs, 2 brats, 2 beers, 2 sodas, 2 ice cream cones is over $50)

 

Just that "experience" gets me to about the same price as we budget for a week of groceries. So yeah, I'd say they are pricing families out. Granted, I'm a small sample size.

 

Not that baseball is alone in that. I don't even think about going to a Wild game, and the only Vikings games I've gone to in the last 10 years are if my name gets drawn in the raffle when my office gives away our corporate tickets. The Timberwolves product has been so bad that I wouldn't consider them either, and even less so now that they are going to non-paper tickets and artificially keeping prices high on the resale market.

 

I used to go to 10-15 games each year. I went to 2 last year. My family didn't go in 2015 and went once in 2014. Take me out of to the ballgame!!

[Thrylos]

 

If the Minneapolis index is used, then perhaps they should rename themselves the Minneapolis Twins because they are no longer reflective of the rest of the state in terms of affordablity.

 

I talked about affordability in #10 above, so I am not going to repeat here.

The fact is that the target market for the Twins as far as butts on the seats, esp. season ticket holders are residents of the Twin Cities and not outstate.  Kinda hard to sell a season ticket package to someone in Duluth, St Cloud, or Rochester... 

[nicksaviking]

 

I talked about affordability in #10 above, so I am not going to repeat here.

The fact is that the target market for the Twins as far as butts on the seats, esp. season ticket holders are residents of the Twin Cities and not outstate.  Kinda hard to sell a season ticket package to someone in Duluth, St Cloud, or Rochester... 

 

I'm not refuting any of that, just that the team likes to portray itself as a Minnesota product for Minnesotans.

[Kavan]

If you go on Stub Hub right now you can find tons of tickets to Twins games for under $20.  $30 can get you some pretty solid seats. But if you're just taking the kids to a game there are plenty of options at $17-18/ticket.  That's not a whole lot different from a movie ticket.

[Thrylos]

 

I'm not refuting any of that, just that the team likes to portray itself as a Minnesota product for Minnesotans.

 

It is.  The team has many ways of watching the game and the one that involved butts in the seats is targeted towards the locals, just because someone who lives in MPLS has higher chances of going to the game than someone who lives in Ely or Mankato.  They are of course welcoming fans outstate but if you are selling a product, it makes sense to market it to someone who will buy it.   Outstate fans can follow using TV or Radio.  Again (from #10 above)  baseball's target live in ballpark audience is not the loyal fans, it is locals who are seeking entertainment.   They compete with movies.  Would you watch a movie in the Twin Cities if you leave outstate?  Unlikely, unless you are travelling there.  So you are not their target customer.

 

 

[Thrylos]

 

I love sports of just about any kind and baseball more than any, but I am also a notorious cheapskate. I just can't justify paying the prices to attend games at face-value:

Family of 4 at $33 per - $132

Parking - $10 (or $15)

Food - $50 (conservatively - 2 dogs, 2 brats, 2 beers, 2 sodas, 2 ice cream cones is over $50)

 

Just that "experience" gets me to about the same price as we budget for a week of groceries. So yeah, I'd say they are pricing families out. Granted, I'm a small sample size.

 

Not that baseball is alone in that. I don't even think about going to a Wild game, and the only Vikings games I've gone to in the last 10 years are if my name gets drawn in the raffle when my office gives away our corporate tickets. The Timberwolves product has been so bad that I wouldn't consider them either, and even less so now that they are going to non-paper tickets and artificially keeping prices high on the resale market.

 

I used to go to 10-15 games each year. I went to 2 last year. My family didn't go in 2015 and went once in 2014. Take me out of to the ballgame!!

 

 

That's $200.   Cannot compare it to buying groceries because the Twins are not competing with that.  How much does an amusement park for a family of 4 cost?  $200+.  How much a dinner at the Butcher and the Boar for a family of 4 cost? $300?  That's what the Twins are competng with.

[bird]

Season tickets should not be part of any discussion about family affordability these days. It's become an absurd notion for 95% of  families to consider it. I'm personally saddened, and have been for a long time, with how all of professional sports has "progressed."

 

Please, just read post #12 from scottz above and tell me why what has happened is a good thing. It's a sad indictment, and there are times I wish the whole economic structure of pro sports would just come crashing down. And there's plenty of blame for this greed to be spread around, frankly. Certainly guilty are the owners, players and agents, politicians who push for subsidies, and fans who bitch up a storm when their team doesn't sign Greinke for $200 friggin' million. The whole system is insane.

 

I'm one of the very fortunate ones who can afford to go to ballgames if I want. But I don't. And it hurts, believe me, to stay away, but in all honesty it's a stand I wish others would join me in taking.

[tobi0040]

 

If you go on Stub Hub right now you can find tons of tickets to Twins games for under $20.  $30 can get you some pretty solid seats. But if you're just taking the kids to a game there are plenty of options at $17-18/ticket.  That's not a whole lot different from a movie ticket.

 

True, but movies have gotten really expensive too.  But as a comparison, I spent $8 per person last week and bought one tub of popcorn for $8 that had free refills and we shared.  So that is $40.  Tickets at $20 a pop is double that and you can’t find anything to share or with refills. 

 

Last August I found day game seats for $15 each.  Paid $10 to park.  And probably $30 on a treat for each kid and a soda for Mom and Dad.  $100 is probably about what we spent.

[bird]

 

If you go on Stub Hub right now you can find tons of tickets to Twins games for under $20.  $30 can get you some pretty solid seats. But if you're just taking the kids to a game there are plenty of options at $17-18/ticket.  That's not a whole lot different from a movie ticket.

 

 

That's about twice the cost of a movie experience after parking, etc. I know the Exectuive Director of a trade group regarding the movie theater business, and at least the affordability issue is on their radar. Not sure MLB is paying attention since right now they're swimming in cash.

[nicksaviking]

 

It is.  The team has many ways of watching the game and the one that involved butts in the seats is targeted towards the locals, just because someone who lives in MPLS has higher chances of going to the game than someone who lives in Ely or Mankato.  They are of course welcoming fans outstate but if you are selling a product, it makes sense to market it to someone who will buy it.   Outstate fans can follow using TV or Radio.  Again (from #10 above)  baseball's target live in ballpark audience is not the loyal fans, it is locals who are seeking entertainment.   They compete with movies.  Would you watch a movie in the Twin Cities if you leave outstate?  Unlikely, unless you are travelling there.  So you are not their target customer.

 

Yes, but they are presenting all Minnesotans and Dakotans as being their target customers. They absolutely tout Target Field on their Winter Caravans. I'm not disputing who they are actually considering when setting prices, I am simply trying to point out who they are CLAIMING to target. They say the Twins and Target Field are for all of Minnesota, and not only when it comes to paying for it.

 

 

[Thrylos]

 

 

Please, just read post #12 from scottz above and tell me why what has happened is a good thing. It's a sad indictment, and there are times I wish the whole economic structure of pro sports would just come crashing down. And there's plenty of blame for this greed to be spread around, frankly. Certainly guilty are the owners, players and agents, politicians who push for subsidies, and fans who bitch up a storm when their team doesn't sign Greinke for $200 friggin' million. The whole system is insane.

 

There is a comparison of Groceries with Tickets to baseball games.  This is not a realistic comparison because nobody (I hope) ever has to chose whether to spent their $ in baseball vs in groceries.  

 

Baseball has made themselves entertainment and competes for the entertainment or experience dollar and it is priced accordingly.  So you have to go to a baseball game, instead of doing something else, like an expensive dinner.

 

Insane?  I don't know.  It is like saying that it is insane that Mercedes Benz is pricing their new cars the way they are pricing or that a cruise is that expensive.  Companies are pricing their goods at the level their target market segment is willing to pay.  Period.  They do not care about people outside their target market segment.  For them they have other products (like someone can buy a 10 year old Mercedes for example), like TV and radio... 

[Mike Sixel]

 

If you go on Stub Hub right now you can find tons of tickets to Twins games for under $20.  $30 can get you some pretty solid seats. But if you're just taking the kids to a game there are plenty of options at $17-18/ticket.  That's not a whole lot different from a movie ticket.

 

it's twice the price of a movie, how is that not "all that different"? Oh, and you have to pay for parking too. And, you pretty much have to eat/drink, where in a movie you don't have to.

[Thrylos]

 

Yes, but they are presenting all Minnesotans and Dakotans as being their target customers. They absolutely tout Target Field on their Winter Caravans. I'm not disputing who they are actually considering when setting prices, I am simply trying to point out who they are CLAIMING to target. They say the Twins and Target Field are for all of Minnesota, and not only when it comes to paying for it.

 

Sure.  What do you want them to say?  That they are not their target customers for their Target Field product?   Good luck with that  If they were, they would do what the casinos do and have free buses to TF.  Do they?

[Mike Sixel]

Too bad this devolved into "all sports are too expensive", and not a discussion of why the Twins' ticket prices are so high compared to the rest of baseball. And, Thrylos' data ignores that he compared the MN market to the entire country, whereas baseball is pretty much only played in the bigger, more expensive, cities.

[Craig Arko]

Actually, it's Hennepin County (and our Sales Tax) that provides the bulk of the public funding for Target Field.

 

Having said that; if I were looking for an affordable family outing, I'd go to see the Saints. Or the Science Museum.

 

I hope to make 2-3 Twins games this season. Generally not at full ticket prices. Same with the Guthrie and the Ordway; combined.

[spinowner]

 

If the Minneapolis index is used, then perhaps they should rename themselves the Minneapolis Twins because they are no longer reflective of the rest of the state in terms of affordablity.

Following the lead of the Angels, Reusse once referred to our team as the Minneapolis Twins of Minnesota.

[scottz]

 

There is a comparison of Groceries with Tickets to baseball games.  This is not a realistic comparison because nobody (I hope) ever has to chose whether to spent their $ in baseball vs in groceries.  

 

Baseball has made themselves entertainment and competes for the entertainment or experience dollar and it is priced accordingly.  So you have to go to a baseball game, instead of doing something else, like an expensive dinner.

 

Insane?  I don't know.  It is like saying that it is insane that Mercedes Benz is pricing their new cars the way they are pricing or that a cruise is that expensive.  Companies are pricing their goods at the level their target market segment is willing to pay.  Period.  They do not care about people outside their target market segment.  For them they have other products (like someone can buy a 10 year old Mercedes for example), like TV and radio... 

 

My inclusion of groceries is only to highlight one person's thinking on the scale of dollars, not to make a choice between one or the other. For scale purposes. I also acknowledge that I'm cheap and also that I'm a small sample size (i.e., not everyone will think of it the same way). But if we're comparing entertainment options, spending $40 at a movie 5 times per year versus spending $200 at a baseball game 1 time per year, the movie is going to win out. Taking the kids to The Butcher and The Boar? Put that on the same line as going to a Wild game.

 

It appears that your point is that they aren't trying to compete for my dollars because I'm not a part of their target market anymore. All I'm saying is that they're succeeding.

 

Edit: grammar

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Too bad this devolved into "all sports are too expensive", and not a discussion of why the Twins' ticket prices are so high compared to the rest of baseball.

I know it's one of my "pet issues", but it could be tied into their lack of accommodation of families at the ballpark, compared to the rest of the league.  The Twins might view their target market as largely childless adults with disposable income, more than other teams.  If that's the case, there's less need to cater to families or to customers more focused on "value."

 

And I can't say that decision is wrong, from a financial perspective, even if I don't like it personally.

[old nurse]

 

If the Minneapolis index is used, then perhaps they should rename themselves the Minneapolis Twins because they are no longer reflective of the rest of the state in terms of affordablity.

It would be unlikely that even half of the 3 million people living in the metro are would identify themselves as Minneapolitans over Minnesotans.