The Twins' Tickets Look Expensive

[spinowner]

I'm not a business person but to me it's very easy to understand how a team determines ticket prices. All you need is data, calculus and an actuary. And it doesn't have anything to do with groceries.

If your average ticket price is $1 you'll sell out every game but you won't make any money. In fact, if you are selling out every game it means your prices are not high enough. If your average ticket price is $1000 you'll hardly sell any tickets and you won't make any money. Somewhere in between is the average price where you'll take in the most revenue. If that means there are more sales to corporations and fewer to families, that's just the way it goes. It isn't a constitutional right for any family to go to as many games as they want (although it might not be a bad thing if it were). That may sound heartless but I'm in favor of the Twins making as much money as they can because that facilitates a higher player payroll.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I'm not a business person but to me it's very easy to understand how a team determines ticket prices. All you need is data, calculus and an actuary. And it doesn't have anything to do with groceries.

If your average ticket price is $1 you'll sell out every game but you won't make any money. In fact, if you are selling out every game it means your prices are not high enough. If your average ticket price is $1000 you'll hardly sell any tickets and you won't make any money. Somewhere in between is the average price where you'll take in the most revenue. If that means there are more sales to corporations and fewer to families, that's just the way it goes. It isn't a constitutional right for any family to go to as many games as they want (although it might not be a bad thing if it were). That may sound heartless but I'm in favor of the Twins making as much money as they can because that facilitates a higher player payroll.

 

I think everyone knows this, right? The question is, what makes this market more willing to pay more money than 3/4 of the rest of the markets? 

 

I was unaware anyone had made the strawman argument that it was a constitutional right to go to baseball games.....

[bird]

 

Too bad this devolved into "all sports are too expensive", and not a discussion of why the Twins' ticket prices are so high compared to the rest of baseball. And, Thrylos' data ignores that he compared the MN market to the entire country, whereas baseball is pretty much only played in the bigger, more expensive, cities.

 

 

I'm not so sure the conversation devolved at all, Mike. For a lot of fans, because of the sky-high prices, the topic of relative ticket prices isn't very relevant. The other factor you mentioned, the relationship between public subsidies of a stadium and the stadium ticket price may have some legs as a topic. Although not for this guy

[Thrylos]

 

It appears that your point is that they aren't trying to compete for my dollars because I'm not a part of their target market anymore. All I'm saying is that they're succeeding.

If you live in the Twin Cities and spend $200 a pop for family entertainment purposes or $50 a pop for individual entertainment purposes you are in their target market segment for their Target Field product. But you potentially have to chose baseball at TF instead rather in addition to ahother $50 or $200 entertainment choice.

If you do not spend that much for entertainment, no you are not in their market segment targeted by the Twins TF product, but you are certainly in the segment targeted by their TV and radio products.

 

Compare it to going from point A to point B in an airplane these days. Target Field live games are flying first class, cable TV is economy plus and radio is economy. Cannot fly First Class and pay economy prices (unless you are frequent flier which is akin to a season ticket holder...)

[Willihammer]

Just an FYI, not sure if everyone is aware, but you can bring in your own outside food and drink. No need to smuggle it in your trousers Spinal Tap-style. So there is $$ to be saved there.

[spinowner]

 

I think everyone knows this, right? The question is, what makes this market more willing to pay more money than 3/4 of the rest of the markets? 

 

I was unaware anyone had made the strawman argument that it was a constitutional right to go to baseball games.....

Nobody made that argument, I just threw it in there on my own.

 

As for the question you ask in the first paragraph I don't know the answer but if that's the going rate then that's the going rate.

[Thrylos]

 

I think everyone knows this, right? The question is, what makes this market more willing to pay more money than 3/4 of the rest of the markets? 

 

That is a very easy answer: Because the targeted market segment sees enough value on the price of the Twins' TF product that is willing to pay the price the Twins are asking.

Nothing more nothing less.   

[Mike Sixel]

 

That is a very easy answer: Because the targeted market segment sees enough value on the price of the Twins' TF product that is willing to pay the price the Twins are asking.

Nothing more nothing less.   

 

Why isn't StL? or chicago? Or others? What is different about this market. You answered with a tautology.

[bird]

That's a good question: What motivates a portion of the local populace to pay a premium over average MLB prices? The "ballpark experience"? And then, how much of the decline in ticket sales is due to price resistance versus an objection to an inferior product? Or versus a choice to spend entertainment dollars elsewhere, like at the movie house or Science Museum or Saints games?

[spinowner]

 

Why isn't StL? or chicago? Or others? What is different about this market. You answered with a tautology.

Those questions would be best addressed to the sales and marketing departments of the teams involved. I don't think anyone on this board knows the answers.

[Thrylos]

 

Why isn't StL? or chicago? Or others? What is different about this market. You answered with a tautology.

 

Because it isn't   It is pricing 101: you price your product at the highest possible price point that provides your targeted market segment enough value to buy your product.

 

And that pricing point is different in different market segments.  Twin Cities residents are a different market segment than St Louis or Chicago residents 

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Just an FYI, not sure if everyone is aware, but you can bring in your own outside food and drink. No need to smuggle it in your trousers Spinal Tap-style. So there is $$ to be saved there.

No outside drinks are allowed at Target Field, except sealed plastic water bottles (or sealed juice/milk containers for kids).  I would love a change in that policy, as I enjoy a soda with my salty snacks but I hate the ballpark soda prices.  (You can visit a booth to sign up as a "designated driver" and get a free soda coupon, though.)

 

But food is allowed.  I've brought in sub sandwiches, Korean takeout, etc., as well as candy and peanuts for snacks.

[d-mac]

Basic economics, if tickets were too expensive based on the market, nobody would go to games. But the Twins still sell plenty, even with the crappy product on the field the past couple of years. It's supply and demand. Also, bear in mind moving from the Dome to Target Field cut seating capacity by roughly 16%. All things being equal, a 16% drop in supply would increase ticket prices by 16%. An accompanying increase in demand would "justify" a further increase in prices. 

 

I think Thrylos hit the nail on the head pretty well. With Target Field, the Twins are marketing themselves to the entertainment & experience crowd versus the hardcore fans like us, who'd watch them play ball anywhere- even if their home park was the Waste Management landfill.

[Kavan]

 

I'm not a business person but to me it's very easy to understand how a team determines ticket prices. All you need is data, calculus and an actuary. And it doesn't have anything to do with groceries.

If your average ticket price is $1 you'll sell out every game but you won't make any money. In fact, if you are selling out every game it means your prices are not high enough. If your average ticket price is $1000 you'll hardly sell any tickets and you won't make any money. Somewhere in between is the average price where you'll take in the most revenue. If that means there are more sales to corporations and fewer to families, that's just the way it goes. It isn't a constitutional right for any family to go to as many games as they want (although it might not be a bad thing if it were). That may sound heartless but I'm in favor of the Twins making as much money as they can because that facilitates a higher player payroll.

 

Except for the fact that taxpayers subsidized the new ballpark, which should compel the organization to think beyond profit maximization. If they fund their business venture without public funds that's one thing, but I don't think an organization should be able to take taxpayer money and then maximize profits without regard to giving back to the community that financially supports their existence. 

[ScrapTheNickname]

 

True, but movies have gotten really expensive too.  But as a comparison, I spent $8 per person last week and bought one tub of popcorn for $8 that had free refills and we shared.  So that is $40.  Tickets at $20 a pop is double that and you can’t find anything to share or with refills. 

 

Last August I found day game seats for $15 each.  Paid $10 to park.  And probably $30 on a treat for each kid and a soda for Mom and Dad.  $100 is probably about what we spent.

You didn't mention if the movie/experience was worth it.

[Craig Arko]

 

Except for the fact that taxpayers subsidized the new ballpark, which should compel the organization to think beyond profit maximization. If they fund their business venture without public funds that's one thing, but I don't think an organization should be able to take taxpayer money and then maximize profits without regard to giving back to the community that financially supports their existence. 

Ummm....

 

http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/min/community/about/contact-us/

 

[Craig Arko]

 

You didn't mention if the movie/experience was worth it.

Taking the whole family to see Deadpool... Priceless.

[Kavan]

 

Ummm....

 

http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/min/community/about/contact-us/

 

Right, this exists, and is good. But your point was that the reason ticket prices are where they are is because of profit maximization, and I agree with you on that. All I'm saying is that ticket prices shouldn't be set to maximize profits because the Twins are publically funded.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Ummm....

 

http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/min/community/about/contact-us/

I'd be curious how much the "Twins Community Fund" actually directly dings the Twins profits.  It's nice that they help fundraise and organize, but I'd suspect it's barely a drop in the bucket from the Twins bottom line.

[USAFChief]

According to this, the Twins' tickets are in the top quarter of MLB in terms of price........

 

Do people think that makes sense, given the market? Are they pricing families out of going? I was surprised at the numbers, frankly.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-impact-of-wins-stadiums-and-economies-on-ticket-prices/

 

Most of the article is rambling, imo, not one of the better written FG articles. The only part that really stuck out was the impact of new stadiums on ticket prices, and the ranking of the Twins' prices compared to the league.

I question the methodology used to derive "average ticket price.

 

I went to MLB, checked tickets foe the CWS Twins game on Wed, Apr 13. Only two sections are priced at or above $33: dugout box and home plate box.

 

There are 16 sections available below $33, starting at diamond box at $29 and ending at skyline view for $6.

[Mike Sixel]

Did you go to the link he provided, that explained how they calculated the averages? That's what I would do, if I wanted to understand that part of the article.........

[USAFChief]

Did you go to the link he provided, that explained how they calculated the averages? That's what I would do, if I wanted to understand that part of the article.........

I did, and the first thing I notice is they are using only season ticket prices to determine "average ticket price." And even that is a "weighted average," which they don't explain.

 

A quick trip to the Twins site again shows that only 5 sections in TF are priced above $33 per ticket, even for season ticket holders, and that includes the ridiculous prices of the Champions Club, at five times the price of dugout box seats.

[Mike Sixel]

Well, that is stupid, imo.

[Craig Arko]

Well, that is stupid, imo.

Which part?

[Boom Boom]

I only go if I get free tickets, and I hardly ever buy food there.

[jimmer]

 

According to this, the Twins' tickets are in the top quarter of MLB in terms of price........

 

Do people think that makes sense, given the market? Are they pricing families out of going? I was surprised at the numbers, frankly.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-impact-of-wins-stadiums-and-economies-on-ticket-prices/

 

Most of the article is rambling, imo, not one of the better written FG articles. The only part that really stuck out was the impact of new stadiums on ticket prices, and the ranking of the Twins' prices compared to the league.

Only two AL teams higher, Boston and New York.

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

From the TMR report:

 

"Average ticket price represents a weighted average of season ticket prices for general seating categories, determined by factoring the tickets in each price range as a percentage of the total number of seats in each venue. Premium seating (tickets that come with at least one added amenity or is classified by team as premium) are not included in the survey to calculate average ticket price. Luxury suites are also excluded from the survey. Season ticket pricing is used for any team that offers some or all tickets at lower prices for customers who buy season seats. Teams have a say in what seats are considered general or premium."

[tobi0040]

 

You didn't mention if the movie/experience was worth it.

 

Ahh, Zootopia.  Pretty decent flick.  Had it's moments and my girls thought several scenes were funny.  Every once in awhile.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I am not sure why we are questioning the $33 average. The majority of seats at Target Field are in the lower levels, that was a selling point for stadium construction. And if we use the middle "Select" games as a rough representation of average (sorry, best breakdown I can find on my phone right now), you will see that every lower level ticket is $32 or more. And there are still some upper level sections close behind at $30:

 

http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/min/ticketing/sth/gen/tiered_pricing.jsp

 

There are more price levels below average, true, but they represent a smaller number of actual seats.

[blairpaul715]

 

No outside drinks are allowed at Target Field, except sealed plastic water bottles (or sealed juice/milk containers for kids).  I would love a change in that policy, as I enjoy a soda with my salty snacks but I hate the ballpark soda prices.  (You can visit a booth to sign up as a "designated driver" and get a free soda coupon, though.)

 

But food is allowed.  I've brought in sub sandwiches, Korean takeout, etc., as well as candy and peanuts for snacks.

This is good to know, because a yr or 2 ago, i did have a soda in my  hand and was not alllowed in with it, so I assumed  it was all outside food and drink,Thanks