Mauer Says Concussions Blurred His Vision/Walk Away Joe merged threads

[ewen21]

 

Because we all know that the media's framing of events is always reflective of reality.

 

 

You are implying that we have read about Mauer lately isn't to be believed. However, I am not talking about how the media is framing this.  I am talking about the pictures and Joe's own words.  Nothing else.

 

And if anything, the PP story was written with the best intentions.  They were trying to show us that Mauer as training hard.  They presented nothing to make me feel that he is.  The article actually had the opposite effect.

 

To say "the media" somehow "framed" Mauer to look bad is quite an accusation on your part.  I think Mauer made himself look bad.  Here is hoping he can bounce back this season.

 

 

[ewen21]

I also am not sure why Joe would say anything was blown out of proportion.  His statements implied that he was still having post-concussion symptoms....for TWO YEARS.

 

How can he not say thing one about it if that is the case?  Further....how does his inner circle completely fan on this one and not even pick up on it?

 

I guess to heck with it.  

[formerly33]

 

That's actually often the case, right? Athletes hang on too long very often. Addicts keep taking drugs. It is actually very, very, common that people that aren't emotionally attached and close to a situation have a better idea of what is good or bad for someone.

 

That may or may not be the case here, btw, but your statement doesn't hold water at all.

Get back to me when you are no longer emotionally attached to baseball in general and then we'll talk.

[BrianTrottier]

 

You are implying that we have read about Mauer lately isn't to be believed. However, I am not talking about how the media is framing this.  I am talking about the pictures and Joe's own words.  Nothing else.

 

And if anything, the PP story was written with the best intentions.  They were trying to show us that Mauer as training hard.  They presented nothing to make me feel that he is.  The article actually had the opposite effect.

 

To say "the media" somehow "framed" Mauer to look bad is quite an accusation on your part.  I think Mauer made himself look bad.  Here is hoping he can bounce back this season.

 

No, I'm saying that the context from a picture and a video from 4 years ago (the offseason before he led the league in OBP, put up an OPS of .861, and was worth over 4 wins) is too limited to draw such sweeping conclusions about Mauer's offseason preparation and his work ethic. You're putting words in my e-mouth by with that last statement.

[BrianTrottier]

 

Let's see what Joe HIMSELF has said on the topic:
Mauer stated in March of 2014 (when transitioning to 1B) that ALL of his leg workouts in the past came from catching bullpens. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2014/03/07/joe-mauer-moves-to-first-base/6167525/

Now we're up to 55 lb. squats. Yippee!

 

That's a red herring. The article doesn't inform your assertion that Mauer refuses (can't?) squat more than 55 pounds. I guess he could've gone the route of Arcia up to that point and focused on getting huge rather than on baseball. Maybe he'd be squatting 600 pounds now and hitting .190. Wouldn't that be great?

 

But seriously, up to the point that article was published he was worth 44 wins, won two batting titles when no other American League catcher had ever won one, and had an MVP to his name. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in this thread. Are you saying that if Mauer was power lifting he'd still be winning batting titles? That he wouldn't have become concussed? That he'd suddenly become a home run hitter when that's never been his game? It seems like your sole interest in this thread is just to take personal jabs at Joe Mauer without any larger point.

[DrNeau]

 

The article doesn't inform your assertion that Mauer refuses (can't?) squat more than 55 pounds. I guess he could've gone the route of Arcia up to that point and focused on getting huge rather than on baseball. Maybe he'd be squatting 600 pounds now and hitting .190. Wouldn't that be great?

I am not asserting Mauer can not lift more than 55 pounds. You, however, are asserting that by lifting more weights, Joe would hit worse. I'm not sure that is possible right now. Again, no one is expecting him to be the Incredible Hulk. 

 

----------------------------------

BrianTrottier, on 24 Feb 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in this thread. Are you saying that if Mauer was power lifting he'd still be winning batting titles?

----------------------------------

Mauer has spoken directly in the past about his weight-lifting habits. His quotes are well-documented. 

 

He stated in 2014 that all of his leg workouts came by catching bullpens in the past, and knowing that his career began in 2004, he effectively stated he had not lifted weights with his legs in 10 years.

 

Simply put, the guy has made some extremely odd statements over the years, and people are not letting these weird quotes slip by right now. You act as if I'm the one who is saying these things. He has said them. In the past, he was given the benefit of the doubt. That's not happening right now. He has made a lot of statements in the past of how he hasn't lifted, and how he has delayed off-season training (and even picking up a bat) until February, and how he needs to "take things slow", etc. He is under scrutiny right now, and the quotes are simply being documented. That's all. Here's to hoping he will turn things around. 

 

----------------------------------

BrianTrottier, on 24 Feb 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

It seems like your sole interest in this thread is just to take personal jabs at Joe Mauer without any larger point.

----------------------------------

 

That's an ad-hominem argument. You are turning the discussion on to me, personally.

 

Again, Mauer has made many odd quotes, and most recently, he made a few that have completely had the Twins' fan base and media up in a frenzy. Unsure if you're aware of what's going on? I'll spell it out for you.

 

Current situation:
* After consecutive spring trainings in 2014 and 2015 where Mauer reported feeling "good", he stated in 2/2016 that he has been suffering all along (since his 8/2013 concussion) from blurred vision, and has cited that as the reason for poor production in the past 2 years. When asked if he ever told the team at all during that two year span, he said no. Terry Ryan confirmed later that he had never heard of that, and that he thought Joe was "fine". TR also followed up, saying that Joe now says his comments are being blown out of proportion. There are clear communication issues, and it seems Joe, who is a grown man now, is having difficulty clearly saying what he means. It's problematic, and many people feel the same way. If you don't agree, that's fine, but it's no reason to attack me. 

 

http://postimg.org/image/8bybbxhin/

[spinowner]

 

 

----------------------------------

BrianTrottier, on 24 Feb 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

It seems like your sole interest in this thread is just to take personal jabs at Joe Mauer without any larger point.

----------------------------------

 

That's an ad-hominem argument. You are turning the discussion on to me, personally.

 

I won't speak for Brian Trottier but as for me, I didn't see this as an argument to rebut any of your points. I took it as simply an observation based on your posts on this and many other previous threads.

[DrNeau]

I have great interest in Mauer performing better, and honestly hope he turns things around. I watch every game and personally am rooting for Joe. These things being said, I am frustrated. I wish for the team to ultimately perform well. I have also admittedly ripped Gardy, Punto, Delmon, Slowey, Mijares, Perkins, Capps, and others for various reasons. Right now, it's Mauer's turn, and I'm sorry if you feel the need to insert your idea of my reasoning for this into the equation. Again, here's hoping he'll turn things around. 

[ewen21]

 

No, I'm saying that the context from a picture and a video from 4 years ago (the offseason before he led the league in OBP, put up an OPS of .861, and was worth over 4 wins) is too limited to draw such sweeping conclusions about Mauer's offseason preparation and his work ethic. You're putting words in my e-mouth by with that last statement.

My observations are not solely generated from a picture and a video.  For me it started about five or six years ago, but it came to a head in 2011 during ST when it was clear to me JOe was not in shape.  I got massacred for suggesting that he came into camp out of shape that year and then weeks later he was on the DL "building strength" down in Florida.

 

Mauer had a minor procedure to clean up his knee in early December, 2010.  His chosen method of rehab was rest.  His mantra was baby steps.  It is all documented and if I need to dig it up for you I will.  By coincidence, Russell Martin had the same procedure (also in December of 2010) and he came into training camp doing handstands.  He an all-star season that year.

 

This notion that nothing can be gleaned from a photograph or a video just makes me shake my head.  Those most recent photos of Mauer were ridiculous.  If he wanted to show people he was healthy and strong those pictures do not inspire confidence in me.  Those pictures are only part of a much larger puzzle.  I am in the camp that believes Joe could do no harm working on strength during the off season.  Maybe you don't think that matters?  I don't know

[ewen21]

 

I have great interest in Mauer performing better, and honestly hope he turns things around. I watch every game and personally am rooting for Joe. These things being said, I am frustrated. I wish for the team to ultimately perform well. I have also admittedly ripped Gardy, Punto, Delmon, Slowey, Mijares, Perkins, Capps, and others for various reasons. Right now, it's Mauer's turn, and I'm sorry if you feel the need to insert your idea of my reasoning for this into the equation. Again, here's hoping he'll turn things around. 

It's almost high treason to suggest Mauer does anything wrong in some circles.  In my opinion, his biggest failing is what he does during the off season.  He doesn't seem to understand that building strength and stamina is priority #1 for a ballplatyer over the winter.  You can't do it during the season, so you must during the off season.  To me, he really needed to do better with this over the course of his career.

 

Am I a bad guy for thinking this?

 

This was not a rash conclusion drawn based off a few minor details.  This is something I have watched unfold over the course of his career.  I am an obsessive fan who follows this team EVERY DAY.  It took me years to come around on this one and yet I am seeing folks insist that this conclusion is baseless.  Souhan's article today was on point.  And I am no Jim Souhan fan

[DrNeau]

Am I a bad guy for thinking this?

 

Nope!

[Otto von Ballpark]

I caught the reporter who published this story on AM 1500 this morning.  Got me thinking, how did 2 years pass from Mauer's return to baseball activity, before the team knew what specific challenges he was facing at the plate in his post-concussion state?

 

I admire certain parts of the Twins culture, like a fair amount of loyalty and patience, but I could do without other parts, like minimization and conflict avoidance.  (As a repressed Minnesotan, I've had to work at overcoming those myself too.)

[TheLeviathan]

 

I caught the reporter who published this story on AM 1500 this morning.  Got me thinking, how did 2 years pass from Mauer's return to baseball activity, before the team knew what specific challenges he was facing at the plate in his post-concussion state?

 

I admire certain parts of the Twins culture, like a fair amount of loyalty and patience, but I could do without other parts, like minimization and conflict avoidance.  (As a repressed Minnesotan, I've had to work at overcoming those myself too.)

 

I think it's the double Minnesota angle.  Minnesota player and Minnesota team, everyone so intent on not stirring the pot that no one said anything, even about something this critical.  In Joe's defense also, he has gotten a ton of local heat for being "soft".  I can't help but think that played a role.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

In Joe's defense also, he has gotten a ton of local heat for being "soft".  I can't help but think that played a role.

I don't know.  He's probably aware it's an undeserved criticism, I don't think he'd let it be a big factor in this.  He got undeserved criticism for his pre-concussion production too, but I don't think he's ever let that influence him.

 

And to me, this isn't about publicly disclosing an injury, or taking time off, or whatever.  The solution may have just been a more sensible scheduling of his off days, trying out sunglasses earlier, other treatments, etc., behind the scenes.  Your everyday #3 hitter has to be able to tell his manager and coaches something so basic about his condition, and the team likewise has to be able to get that information from its everyday #3 hitter.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I don't know.  He's probably aware it's an undeserved criticism, I don't think he'd let it be a big factor in this.  He got undeserved criticism for his pre-concussion production too, but I don't think he's ever let that influence him.

 

And to me, this isn't about publicly disclosing an injury, or taking time off, or whatever.  The solution may have just been a more sensible scheduling of his off days, trying out sunglasses earlier, other treatments, etc., behind the scenes.  Your everyday #3 hitter has to be able to tell his manager and coaches something so basic about his condition, and the team likewise has to be able to get that information from its everyday #3 hitter.

 

Right but much of the criticism was levied about his willingness to play full-time.  Molitor has stated on Barreiro's show that it was one of his first things to go to Mauer about and push for him to be in the lineup more often.  We'll never know how much that perception influenced him, but I think it had an impact on how things went down.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Right but much of the criticism was levied about his willingness to play full-time.  Molitor has stated on Barreiro's show that it was one of his first things to go to Mauer about and push for him to be in the lineup more often.  We'll never know how much that perception influenced him, but I think it had an impact on how things went down.

Really?  Molitor said that?

 

Post-concussion, he started 118 of 128 team games when he wasn't on the DL in 2014.  Did Molitor really go to him after that and push for him to be in the lineup more?  Dude has a .732 OPS and you want to push him to play hurt so he can be like Gehrig or Ripken?

 

Not sure if it really meant anything.  149 games started pace in 2014, and 154 games started in 2015.  1 extra game started per month?

 

And of course, pre-concussion, that criticism was bunk.  He was a catcher, that's why he wasn't playing "full-time."  And 144 games started in 2012, and 145 games started pace in 2013 before the concussion is pretty darn good, given the time he was still spending behind the plate.

[DrNeau]

3/5/16: Mauer is 0-3, has taken a first-pitch strike in each at bat, and is NOT wearing sunglasses.

[Ultima Ratio]

 

3/5/16: Mauer is 0-3, has taken a first-pitch strike in each at bat, and is NOT wearing sunglasses.

 

Good news?

[darin617]

 

Wait. I thought Mauer was 100% healthy, as evidenced by the fact he wasn't drooling on himself, wearing a foam helmet, and screaming "CONCUSSION SYMPTOMS" every time he was within ten feet of microphone.

Actually isn't this the first time that he came out and blamed the concussions for his vision problems? If so, how do you explain keeping this a secret from the team? Not very classy on his part to not share with the trainers his problems. To what point if his vision does not improve could the team try to DL him indefinitely and try to see if the insurance will cover part of the contract. In other words retirement.

[DrNeau]

Summary of Joe Mauer at bats - 3/5/16: Orioles / Twins

 

At bat #1: 

Mauer takes strike one right down the center of the plate. 0-1. Mauer later grounds out weakly to first. No sunglasses. 

 

At bat #2: 

Mauer takes strike one right down the center of the plate. 0-1. Mauer later grounds out to second. No sunglasses. 

 

At bat #3: 

Mauer takes strike one right down the center of the plate. 0-1. Mauer hits a can of corn fly out to left. No sunglasses. 

 

http://i.imgur.com/aNNhoA0.jpg 

[ken]

This is interesting and disappointing - he always said he had no concussion issues and then he changes the story and doesn't follow up on what he said was the problem.

 

It's beginning to get hard to believe what Mauer is saying.

[PseudoSABR]

Wait, so he wasn't wearing sun glasses?

[DrNeau]

Right. He wasn't wearing them. There were about 50 recent articles saying that he was going to start wearing sunglasses. Mauer is really a mystery wrapped in a riddle.

[D. Hocking]

I think the fact that he did not wear them today was a bit weather related.  I heard on the radio and read on a post here, it was not really bright and sunny.  I understand why some people want to criticize Mauer, but not wearing sunglasses on days where the sun is not bothering him, is probably not one of them.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I think the fact that he did not wear them today was a bit weather related. I heard on the radio and read on a post here, it was not really bright and sunny. I understand why some people want to criticize Mauer, but not wearing sunglasses on days where the sun is not bothering him, is probably not one of them.

Never mind that Mauer wants to wear the glasses to ease concussion symptoms. Maybe he didn't feel symptoms today so he didn't wear glasses. There are many questions, few answers. Certainly not enough to draw any kind of reasoned conclusion about much of anything.

 

Then again, this thread isn't really about rational discussion and exploration, it's a thinly veiled witch hunt built on supposition and half truths.

[DrNeau]

Maybe he didn't feel symptoms today so he didn't wear glasses.

Thanks for clearing that up. With this reasoning you've offered, we can now determine which days Joe can be held accountable for his poor production - and without excuse.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Thanks for clearing that up. With this reasoning you've offered, we can now determine which days Joe can be held accountable for his poor production - and without excuse.

Perhaps I need to define the word "maybe" for you. I'm not the one drawing conclusions. Mauer is who he is. I'm neither blaming him nor lauding him for how he has acted since the concussion.

 

My suggestion is that maybe you should take a break from creating and/or posting in Mauer threads for awhile. You seem like a reasonable poster whenever Joe Mauer isn't the topic of discussion.

[DrNeau]

Excuse me, but you did conclude that it was a possibility that the reason he didn't wear sunglasses was because he was not experiencing symptoms. I've seen other posts where I fully agree with you, but yes, on this topic, we have different opinions. Glad we're able to voice them... which is what a forum is for.

[twinsnorth49]

Summary of Joe Mauer at bats - 3/5/16: Orioles / Twins

 

At bat #1:

Mauer takes strike one right down the center of the plate. 0-1. Mauer later grounds out weakly to first. No sunglasses.

 

At bat #2:

Mauer takes strike one right down the center of the plate. 0-1. Mauer later grounds out to second. No sunglasses.

 

At bat #3:

Mauer takes strike one right down the center of the plate. 0-1. Mauer hits a can of corn fly out to left. No sunglasses.

 

http://i.imgur.com/aNNhoA0.jpg

Wait...so you're saying Mauer went 0-3 in a meaningless ST game?

 

Cancel the parade.....damn!

[Squirrel]

Wait...so you're saying Mauer went 0-3 in a meaningless ST game?

Cancel the parade.....damn!

So did Sano, striking out twice.