Sheehan: Mauer should be in the OF

[drjim]

 

I'm sorry doc, but there is absolutely *no* room for debate here. You are hereby part of the Twins-Never-Make-A-Mistake crowd. 

 

I just assumed most people put me there already.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Mauer isn't one of us. the day he was old enough to decide where to live, he moved to FL. He is one of us like a chair is......he was here when he was required to be here by someone else. 

 

I've moved to Ireland and then New York City. Does this mean I'm not a Minnesotan? Because I will fight someone who tries to take away my Minnesota-ness. It defines me.

 

This argument makes no sense. Of course he moved to Florida - the Twins are there for spring training 6 weeks of the year and have their training facilities there, it's the best place for him to be for work. And the time period he gets off of work would coincide with the worst, coldest time to be in MN. If he didn't move to FL he would be insane. Plus, if you could cut your tax bill by 10% and in doing so move closer to work where it's nicer weather, wouldn't you do it?

 

Don't hold him to a standard you couldn't possibly meet yourself.

[DJL44]

If Joe Mauer is the reason we have Target Field instead of Metrodome, then Thanks Joe!

[Mike Sixel]

 

I've moved to Ireland and then New York City. Does this mean I'm not a Minnesotan? Because I will fight someone who tries to take away my Minnesota-ness. It defines me.

 

This argument makes no sense. Of course he moved to Florida - the Twins are there for spring training 6 weeks of the year and have their training facilities there, it's the best place for him to be for work. And the time period he gets off of work would coincide with the worst, coldest time to be in MN. If he didn't move to FL he would be insane. Plus, if you could cut your tax bill by 10% and in doing so move closer to work where it's nicer weather, wouldn't you do it?

 

Don't hold him to a standard you couldn't possibly meet yourself.

 

I prefer to think of those that move here as true Minnesotans.....ymmv. Plenty of other Twins, not born here, moved here. Which ones should we root for more, if we actually care about that kind of stuff?

 

I don't get why people feel any need to care where a dude was born, but clearly some people do. So, why care more about where someone is born, than where they choose to live and who they choose to be?

[drjim]

This strikes me as especially trivial, but I thought Mauer spent a pretty significant amount of his offseason in Minnesota now, since he is married to a Minnesota girl and grandparents and all that.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

They should call Target Field the House that Joe Built. That contract sucks but it was signed because keeping Mauer "required" a modern stadium.

The weird thing is that funding for the park was approved back in early 2005, barely into Mauer's second season, and the park opening was set to coincide with Mauer reaching free agency.  Yet we didn't sign him to any kind of long-term contract until after his 3rd season when he won a batting title, and then only bought out a single free agent season.  His current contract should have been completely unnecessary -- he should have signed a generous, long-term "Twin for life" deal in his early seasons, and then re-upped or extended it a couple years at a time until he retired.

 

I'd love to find out why that didn't happen. Joe doesn't seem like the type that would be unreasonable in his demands, while TR does seem like the type that would fail to resolve something like that in a timely manner...

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

This strikes me as especially trivial, but I thought Mauer spent a pretty significant amount of his offseason in Minnesota now, since he is married to a Minnesota girl and grandparents and all that.

Last I read, he was "making his home in Mendota Heights" although that was during the 2014 season:

 

http://www.startribune.com/mauers-want-normalcy-as-they-raise-twins-amid-his-celebrity/285972581/

 

I'm sure he keeps his Florida place, and he also had a place north of the Twin Cities, but I'd guess he's more local now than in his single days, for sure.

[Dantes929]

 

I prefer to think of those that move here as true Minnesotans.....ymmv. Plenty of other Twins, not born here, moved here. Which ones should we root for more, if we actually care about that kind of stuff?

 

I don't get why people feel any need to care where a dude was born, but clearly some people do. So, why care more about where someone is born, than where they choose to live and who they choose to be?

Ok, I may be wrong here but I am almost positive the Mauers have a home on Sunfish lake here in Minnesota.    I am also guessing that most people with 9 digits in assets would have more than one house and I am also guessing they would not have them all in one state.    The idea that he has one in Florida makes complete sense both to get away from the cold and because that is where the Twins have Spring Training.    

As far as legal residence goes it is really just a nuance.     I don't believe he avoids Minnesota tax since I believe players are taxed on how much they make at each site they play.   I am guessing major league players file a dozen or more state income tax returns but of course Mauer makes a lot more than just his playing salary and thus save some in state income tax.   Who cares?   

[nicksaviking]

 

Last I read, he was "making his home in Mendota Heights" although that was during the 2014 season:

 

http://www.startribune.com/mauers-want-normalcy-as-they-raise-twins-amid-his-celebrity/285972581/

 

I'm sure he keeps his Florida place, and he also had a place north of the Twin Cities, but I'd guess he's more local now than in his single days, for sure.

 

Right, he might be a Florida resident for some sort of tax purposes, the ethics of doing so can certainly be debated, but plenty of people with much, much less wealth own more than one property.

 

Are we going to make 3M change their name to CIMM? (Caymen Islands Mining and Manufacturing)

 

Edit: The more I think about it, I kind of like the idea of making tax dodging companies wear some sort of scarlet letter.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I don't believe he avoids Minnesota tax since I believe players are taxed on how much they make at each site they play.

That is correct, thus signing with a team in a low-tax state gets you those tax benefits for half your salary (home games).  Your offseason home doesn't matter (except for offseason income, endorsements, etc., I suppose).

[ThejacKmp]

 

I prefer to think of those that move here as true Minnesotans.....ymmv. Plenty of other Twins, not born here, moved here. Which ones should we root for more, if we actually care about that kind of stuff?

 

I don't get why people feel any need to care where a dude was born, but clearly some people do. So, why care more about where someone is born, than where they choose to live and who they choose to be?

 

I think Joe Mauer has always felt like ours because he was born here and grew up a Twins fan. I don't think that it matters that KG wasn't born here for example, but it certainly adds something to the Myth of Mauer.

 

He also is the quintessential Minnesotan. Polite, quiet, still mostly hangs out with his high school friends, and humble to the point of it being annoying. I'd get it if he acted like Johnny Football but Joe Mauer is all that is MN. If someone from California asked me for the archtype of a Minnesotan, I could do worse than pick the Chairman.

 

You also act like he doesn't live here at all - he has a place just outside of Saint Paul that he uses during the season. Most of those guys who come play here who get a house also have a house somewhere else. Somewhere warmer.

[Mike Sixel]

Looks like I touched a nerve. All I'm trying to say is I feel like a guy like Koskie who moved here and stayed her and is involved here seems more like the kind of guy people should root for if they care about stuff like that.

[ThejacKmp]

 

The weird thing is that funding for the park was approved back in early 2005, barely into Mauer's second season, and the park opening was set to coincide with Mauer reaching free agency.  Yet we didn't sign him to any kind of long-term contract until after his 3rd season when he won a batting title, and then only bought out a single free agent season.  His current contract should have been completely unnecessary -- he should have signed a generous, long-term "Twin for life" deal in his early seasons, and then re-upped or extended it a couple years at a time until he retired.

 

I'd love to find out why that didn't happen. Joe doesn't seem like the type that would be unreasonable in his demands, while TR does seem like the type that would fail to resolve something like that in a timely manner...

 

Yeah, I get your point here. But I remember much of the discussion when they were talking about the park being along the lines of "We want to keep guys like Mauer but can't unless we have the funding stream." They didn't use Torii or Santana as much, those were guys we weren't going to be able to keep because the stadium was 3-4 years away.

 

And totally agreed about the contract. The TC media and TD boards castrate Mauer for his contract but it is the Twins who waited until after an MVP season to get a deal signed. He was a once-in-a-generation talent at catcher and they paid an arm and a leg because they were afraid to take a chance. Joe had a knee surgery in his past and certainly had every reason to take a deal the year before, it has to be on the Twins.

 

I firmly believe that the Twins balked because they were afraid to sign the contract before the new field opened and the revenue was in the bag. It was short-sighted and still has ramifications. Mauer wouldn't be such a burdensome contract if that extra year of team control dropped the yearly price 3-5 million $. 

[drjim]

Yeah, I get your point here. But I remember much of the discussion when they were talking about the park being along the lines of "We want to keep guys like Mauer but can't unless we have the funding stream." They didn't use Torii or Santana as much, those were guys we weren't going to be able to keep because the stadium was 3-4 years away.

 

And totally agreed about the contract. The TC media and TD boards castrate Mauer for his contract but it is the Twins who waited until after an MVP season to get a deal signed. He was a once-in-a-generation talent at catcher and they paid an arm and a leg because they were afraid to take a chance. Joe had a knee surgery in his past and certainly had every reason to take a deal the year before, it has to be on the Twins.

 

I firmly believe that the Twins balked because they were afraid to sign the contract before the new field opened and the revenue was in the bag. It was short-sighted and still has ramifications. Mauer wouldn't be such a burdensome contract if that extra year of team control dropped the yearly price 3-5 million $.

The bigger blunder was Ryan only going 4 years in the initial contract instead of 5 or 6. Really put the franchise in a jam following an MVP season heading into a new park.

[ThejacKmp]

 

The bigger blunder was Ryan only going 4 years in the initial contract instead of 5 or 6. Really put the franchise in a jam following an MVP season heading into a new park.

 

Agreed. I really hope the Twins learn their lesson from Mauer and apply it Sano and Buxton. We've spent a lot of time on boards talking about how the Twins should or should not sign a multi-year deal with a big name reliever but I think Twins Daily might be able to get unanimous consensus for the first time ever if we were given the choice between signing that reliever or taking that money and using it towards signing Sano or Buxton to a deal which takes them through their age 28 or 29 seasons. It would be a risk but man, I'd love to see them take that kind of a gamble on the young guns. Especially with Buxton - it's the ultimate buy low moment. If they offered Buxton 8 years at $60 million, he'd have to take it right? Especially since even if the last years are a bargain, he would still have another big free agency deal at age 29.

[ashbury]

Moderator's note: To reiterate what I wrote at the top of this thread, I have removed the exact text that followed the summary, because it appears to be a full article that is surely under copyright. I could not find it on-line, so as to provide a link - perhaps it is behind a paywall. The discussion is permissible, we just want to respect intellectual property. Short excerpts are usually OK under fair use if properly cited, likewise summaries such as the one I left standing.

 

I've put out an inquiry, and will make an update if anything changes.

A quick followup. With kind permission of the author, I have restored his article's content to the first post in this thread. Any of you who joined this discussion thread and feel in the dark about what it's about, go back to the top of the thread and have a look - it's good reading. And for those of you who don't have a reason to go back to the top, here is commentary I invited from the author:

 

The Joe Sheehan Newsletter is an e-mail newsletter about all things baseball, a mix of analysis, commentary and opinion, all linked by a deep love of the game. Subscriptions cost $29.95 for a full year and $16.95 for six months.

Subscribe!

His Twitter handle is @joe_sheehan

[Dantes929]

 

Right, he might be a Florida resident for some sort of tax purposes, the ethics of doing so can certainly be debated, but plenty of people with much, much less wealth own more than one property.

 

Are we going to make 3M change their name to CIMM? (Caymen Islands Mining and Manufacturing)

 

Edit: The more I think about it, I kind of like the idea of making tax dodging companies wear some sort of scarlet letter.

Yes.   Off topic but I liked the idea that politicians should wear NASCAR style jackets that show their biggest contributors logos so we know who paid for them.  This idea has the same kind of logical transparency.

[IndianaTwin]

 

Miguel Cabrera is such a perfect comp to this situation it's embarrassing he didn't mention it.

Basically the same size. Signed as a SS, played almost all IF in the minors, broke in to the majors for 2.5 years as a corner OF, played next 2 years at 3B, then played almost the rest of his career at 1B (one misguided season aside). Stunted his growth so much he's the best RH hitter of his generation.

 

Yes, yes, yes. I've made the same argument on Cabrera. And Albert Pujols followed a reasonably similar path, though without the SS part.

 

Then add -- the last two years, Mauer averaged 117 starts at 1B. If something similar happens, that's 45 games Sano may not start in the OF. He can DH while Park plays 1B. Plouffe averaged 132 starts at 3B. That's 30 games Sano can play the 3B many desire. And Park ain't gonna play 162 games either, so Sano is the DH those days. 

Let's get real, folks. "Sano to the OF" isn't going to result in 162 games out there. And if it does, that's because Plouffe, Mauer, and Park all stayed incredibly healthy and productive. That's a problem I can deal with.

[DocBauer]

With hope things get back on track.....

 

Thank you John for taking the time needed to repost the original story. Much, much appreciated.

 

And every darn thing in that article is right on. Sorry, but Mauer is not part of the future. And to repeat my earlier comment, if there isn't a turnaround/resurgence from Mauer next season, he really should be a role player. He should be the veteran LH hitting PH/1B/DH that I've argued previously this team could use.

[sane09]

I'm guessing that if Mauer read the Twins blogs regularly, he would move away for self defense reasons. I'll bet Joe hasn't got single hater in Florida. They don't even know who he is.

[Thrylos]

 

 

Plouffe is actually a better player than Mauer is these days.

 

Would love to hear the data that he would use to support this statement, because I bet that it would either suggest that Nunez is better than both (which is wrong), or it would compare apples and oranges (play at 1B vs play at 3B, which is also wrong...)

[Richie the Rally Goat]

the bench about half the time would be my preference.

and DH the other half

[Wizard11]

Here are a few tangential thoughts that this topic brings up for me.  1. I am concerned about the potential for Sano to have a career altering injury playing the OF ala Tony Oliva or Jason Kubel to name a couple of Twins to suffer that fate.  Does Terry Ryan really want that to be his legacy? 2. I personally think fan's expectations are getting well ahead of the team development curve regardless of whether or not we "win or lose" the offseason.  We are not realistically just a player or 2 away from contending.  A much stronger base must be built in all areas to be a real contender.  3. I believe management's job is to setup those they manage for success.  Is that really the case here for Sano? Park? or Molitor? or even Mauer? 4. It used to bug me about Tom Kelly's slavish adherence to defense even at the cost of offense (and having every hitter hit the other way including power hitters, but that is another topic).  However having watched some of the porous defenses of the past few seasons, I am feeling nostalgic for all that even to almost include Hocking, Reboulet, Newman, etc..  5. Terry Ryan was a pretty marginal pitcher in his playing career.  Is his bizarre fetish of finding unknowns and rehab projects for the bullpen just his subconscious saying that he might have made it if only he had been given a shot in a Major League team's bullpen.  Well that is enough random thoughts.

[sane09]

Terry Ryan was a pretty marginal pitcher in his playing career.

Check the "playing careers" of the other GM's in MLB. I would guess there are more ex-computer geeks than ex-MLB players.

[Wizard11]

Sane09 - the question was about why Terry Ryan has his reuse, repurpose, recycle mentality on bullpen construction.  One hypothesis might be because of his truncated career.  It was not a comment on what resume` a GM should have.  No known correlation between prior career and one as a successful MLB GM.

[ashbury]

It's not particularly productive to speculate on what goes on between another person's ears.

[Wizard11]

@ashburyjohn...  It is not particularly productive to post 9,649 times on a blog either.  Is this a blog about productivity? 

[Thrylos]

 

It's not particularly productive to speculate on what goes on between another person's ears.

 

Unless you are one of these:

 

http://i1.wp.com/h2opositivo.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/the-bookworm-beat-112015-the-illustrated-edition-and-open-thread19.jpg?resize=480%2C443

[Dr. Evil]

In order to build a seriously emerging team, top prospects must be placed in to their core positions, not scattered around amongst the fodder we already have.

[ashbury]

@ashburyjohn...  It is not particularly productive to post 9,649 times on a blog either.  Is this a blog about productivity? 

My eighth grade teacher was fond of telling our class, "a word to the wise is sufficient". Since a word apparently wasn't enough in this case, please read a lot of words in the TD Comment Policy if you haven't already done so. Among the suggestions in the part about Respect is "But it crosses a line when ... pretending you know how another person’s mind works."

 

If we're qualified to diagnose someone psychologically, then our professional code of ethics prohibits us from doing that upon someone we've never even met. Thus, all such speculation here is done by those inherently unqualified to do so.