The Front Office and Settling For Mediocrity

[DaveW]

Another off-season has come with the Twins having significant holes in the lineup and pitching staff, and another off-season has started out with Terry Ryan filling a said hole with a mediocre player instead of bringing in an impact player.

 

Make no mistake about it, John Ryan Murphy is NOT a good catcher, he rates out as average at best defensively, and offensively he never did anything in the minors to write home about. Can he someday potentially become league average? I suppose so, but league average is not something to strive for, especially not when you are giving up an asset in Aaron Hicks who has just turned the corner and looks to be a potential steal for the Yankees. Guys who have gold glove defense in CF, can hit 20+ HR and steal 20+ bases don't grow on trees. Of course Hicks wasn't always the model "Twins way" type player, so he was easy to part with by Ryan and company, just like a certain other "non Twins way" player TR let walk for nothing in his first stint, I believe that players name was David Arias and all he did was go on to win multiple world series, MVPs and hit 500+ HR after he left. Sweet.

 

It's not just 2015 where Ryan has settled for mediocrity as well: Going back the last two off-seasons Ryan has spent well over a 100 million locking up middle of the rotation veterans such as Nolasco, Santana and Hughes, ignoring that the team has needed a front end of the rotation type ever since Santana was shipped out of town. In 2014 instead of trying to fix the DH/LF/SS spots, Ryan decided to bring back Bartlett and Kubel, two players that had no business being on a major league roster. Instead of upgrading the pen heading into 2015, Ryan brought in Tim Stauffer and Boyer, Stauffer was as bad as we all expected and even though Boyer exceeded our expectations, he wasn't the 7th/8th inning guy this team sorely needed.

 

Additionally heading into 2015 Ryan had a corner OF spot to fill (and at the time it looked like CF as well), Nelson Cruz was there for the taking along with several other options, many  of which were more than affordable, what does he do? Signs Torii Hunter for a retirement lap, all Hunter did was hit below average and play at a level that was barely above replacement level.

 

I was hoping that this off-season would be different, Pak and trading Herrmann for anything were two nice small steps forward and I admidt I was getting excited to see what the Twins would do this off-season, but of course 2 small steps forward are followed up by a HUGE step backwards. Now the Twins have yet another hole in the OF to start the season, and to fill it they seem content by inexplicably moving Sano to LF, a move that doesn't make any sense any way you slice it.

 

Perhaps Ryan has an aggressive and GOOD move or two up his sleeve still, and I admidt it's still early, however as the old saying goes, fool me once? shame on me, fool me 17 times? No world series contender anytime soon.

 

 

[Pardon My Dinger]

Geez louise. Get a calendar, man. The offseason is a week old.

[DaveW]

It should be noted as well, that signing Suzuki after a very fluky and career first half to a long term deal was also a case of settling for nothing special.

[jimmer]

 

Geez louise. Get a calendar, man. The offseason is a week old.

Is this Ryan's first offseason, or do we have a track record to look at in regards to such things? Does he get unlimited, and continuous extension of, the benefit of the doubt?

[nicksaviking]

Is Hicks more than a mediocre player? What happens if Ryan now goes out and finds a better hitting OF than Hicks?

 

It seems a bit unfair that you liked the first two moves, but when the third wasn't also to your liking everything gets tossed out the window.

[DaveW]

 

Is Hicks more than a mediocre player? What happens if Ryan now goes out and finds a better hitting OF than Hicks?

 

It seems a bit unfair that you liked the first two moves, but when the third wasn't also to your liking everything gets tossed out the window.

A terrible move >>>>>> 2 small good moves.

 

I'm also going off his other 17 off-seasons at the helm. More bad then good.

[JaleelWhite FanClub]

3 Things.

 

1) The "Twins Way" player is a real thing with Ryan. That's why I'm thinking there's no way Plouffe is traded.

 

2) It's hard to make big moves and still fill out your team when one player is soaking up a 1/4 of your payroll. And if said player's position is forcing an infielder into a crowded outfield, someone is going to get shipped off. The dominoes are beginning to fall. The Twins aren't done shipping young assets out.Three more years. Three more years.

 

Who am I kidding with three more years? He'll get an extension.

 

3) This thread is fine. It's early, but nothing about Ryan's past suggests he's got a big deal up his sleeve.

[DaveW]

Also with as early as this happened it is clear that the Twins had no desire to even kick the tires on bringing in an IMPACT catcher via trade or free agency like Lucroy or Wieters, neither guy is perfect, and neither would be cheap, but at least they have some really nice upside.

[JaleelWhite FanClub]

 

Also with as early as this happened it is clear that the Twins had no desire to even kick the tires on bringing in an IMPACT catcher via trade or free agency like Lucroy or Wieters, neither guy is perfect, and neither would be cheap, but at least they have some really nice upside.

 

Or doing something a GM with some creativity might do.

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/20707-schwarber-for-berrios/

 

Plus this Hicks trade has bumped my thread waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down in the pecking order. DARN RYAN!!!

[Vanimal46]

 

Also with as early as this happened it is clear that the Twins had no desire to even kick the tires on bringing in an IMPACT catcher via trade or free agency like Lucroy or Wieters, neither guy is perfect, and neither would be cheap, but at least they have some really nice upside.

 

I'm with you on this. I wanted to believe that something bigger would happen on the C side, and really hope after this trade that TR and Antony didn't shake hands and say " now we're done. mission accomplished" 

IMO We need a guy to come in to usurp Suzuki of his starting job, and really reverse the role he had from 479 PA to about 180-200. Murphy will probably take away enough PA to eliminate Suzuki's vesting option for 2017, but that's not a high bar to strive for.

[Platoon]

Is Hicks more than a mediocre player? What happens if Ryan now goes out and finds a better hitting OF than Hicks?

 

It seems a bit unfair that you liked the first two moves, but when the third wasn't also to your liking everything gets tossed out the window.

Please do not tell me that we would sign another OF! We have lots of them already. If the Twins decide to start Buxton and Kepler in Rochester for service time, fine. But that is not a reason to acquire another OF. If that's the case, let Santana and Arcia play. Who knows, one of them might end up like a Dozier or Plouffe. Had to play despite production, figured it out, and became acceptable MLB players.

[T.C.]

1. I don't see how throwing down $12.85 Mil to talk to a Korean slugger is "settling for mediocrity". That is a very bold, and risky move with high upside.

 

2. Holding on to Hicks and his .235 vs righties would be settling for mediocrity, imo. Murphy is no more "mediocre" than Hicks, especially when you factor in the positions they play.

 

 

[old nurse]

 

A terrible move >>>>>> 2 small good moves.

 

I'm also going off his other 17 off-seasons at the helm. More bad then good.

So signing a player to a contract that would make them immovable , over paid and underperforming is better than doing small moves.  Doing what turns out to be terrible moves gets a GM fired.

[SF Twins Fan]

HAHAHA.  All I can do is laugh at this post.  Hicks only had one, ONE, good month this past season and that means he's turned a corner??? That's laughable.

 

Suzuki is below average defensively, throwing out base stealers and at hitting. He's good at calling a game and that's it. Murphy is average at defense, throwing out base stealers and better than average (for a catcher) at hitting. Seems to be a pretty good improvement to me. He's also only 24 and barely been given a chance to catch since the Yankees signed Mccann to a large contract. Twins fans have been spoiled into thinking Mauer, when catching, was what you should expect from a catcher. There aren't many out there like him when he was in his prime. Salvador Perez and Buster Posey are the only two I can think of who can hit for average, field and throw out base runners. If Murphy can give the Twins average fielding, throwing and a little above average hitting then they "win" this trade.

 

So how is Hicks a gold glove OF and who can hit for 20+ homeruns and 20+ stolen bases???? Has he done any of these things? He's already 26 years old already...not exactly a prospect anymore. It's time to put up or shut up. If you remove the month of July where he hit .346. He hit .230 the rest of the season.....not exactly lighting it up and I don't think I'd categorize that as "taking the next step" would you???

[SF Twins Fan]

Also, did KC win the world series this season with a front of the line starter??? The answer to that is NO absolutely not. Cueto pitched terrible once he was traded to KC. KC won with middle of the line pitching, great defense, being aggressive hitting and base running, and a lights out bullpen. 

[DaveW]

Also, did KC win the world series this season with a front of the line starter??? The answer to that is NO absolutely not. Cueto pitched terrible once he was traded to KC. KC won with middle of the line pitching, great defense, being aggressive hitting and base running, and a lights out bullpen.

Cueto pitched one of the bet games this entire postseason FYI

[jimmer]

Not too many GMs are going to agree Cueto isn't a front of the line starter.  I'd be surprised if there was even one.

[twinsnorth49]

Ahhh, another life of Ryan thread, my favourite. 

 

And all because we traded Aaron HIcks of all people.

[Minniman]

It was easier with Mount Crushmore because three of the four players came up in the Twins system.

 

Trying to build the base from without is more difficult.

 

Too bad the Twins didn't go after Nelson Cruz last season.

[Minniman]

 

 

2) It's hard to make big moves and still fill out your team when one player is soaking up a 1/4 of your payroll. And if said player's position is forcing an infielder into a crowded outfield, someone is going to get shipped off. The dominoes are beginning to fall. The Twins aren't done shipping young assets out.Three more years. Three more years.

 

 

Who will I upset here if I say those are already sunk costs?

 

[DaveW]

Ahhh, another life of Ryan thread, my favourite.

 

And all because we traded Aaron HIcks of all people.

When you win one playoff series in 17 seasons one deserves a tiny bit of criticism

[Danchat]

 

1) The "Twins Way" player is a real thing with Ryan. That's why I'm thinking there's no way Plouffe is traded.

TR said that nobody was going to be moved a few days ago. Then two guys get traded away. 

 

If there's a good enough offer for Plouffe, TR will move him. If teams try to low-ball him, he's not going to trade him. It's that simple.

[Dantes929]

 

A terrible move >>>>>> 2 small good moves.

 

I'm also going off his other 17 off-seasons at the helm. More bad then good.

Is it a terrible move though?   Just your opinion which is probably pretty much 50/50 like everyone else's.   Would not surprise me to look at posts from three years ago by people hating this move saying that Hicks should never see a major league field again.  Of course in three years this could look like a terrible move but right now from my viewpoint it makes some sense.    Looking at the other pages it looks like a split of opinion on this trade.  Going to the Yankees pages it looks like a split of opinion.    Quick check of catchers with 150+ at bats in 2015 shows Murphy at #6 in batting ahead of Wieters and Lucroy btw,    A quick look at centerfielders show Hicks turning the corner at #20 among centerfielders.     I am not down on Hicks but his splits from the left side just aren't that good.   I always thought he would make the ideal platoon candidate with Arcia and would have a lot of value in that capacity.   His OBP actually went down from 2014.   As a full timer he is a plus hitter against lefties and a minus hitter against righties which would be fine except we face a lot more right handers.   Maybe he will continue to improve but there is no real basis to expect it.      

"Terrible move"  "Huge step backwards"?      We just supplemented a guy with a 67 OPS+ last year in Suzuki with a guy that had a 103 OPS+ in Murphy.    Likely Hicks 95 is supplanted by Sano's 146 and Sano's 146 by whatever Park can do.     So often I read about proven players being needed but now in this trade upside is king? ( No I am not saying Murphy is proven in anything but the short term but Hicks has very little proof of any kind from the left side).    In short this trade looks reasonable.    Of course Hicks could turn the corner and be a perennial all star but there are those on the Yankee pages that really liked Murphy and are afraid of him being a solid starter for years to come in exchange for a 4th outfielder.    Huge step backwards?   Not based on what they did in 2015. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

1. I don't see how throwing down $12.85 Mil to talk to a Korean slugger is "settling for mediocrity". That is a very bold, and risky move with high upside.

 

2. Holding on to Hicks and his .235 vs righties would be settling for mediocrity, imo. Murphy is no more "mediocre" than Hicks, especially when you factor in the positions they play.

And that's why the Twins should have given Hicks and Arcia a chance to platoon in right field. There's no reason not to try a platoon like that for a couple months, especially given the four months Danny Santana got.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

The Hicks trade is a great trade for New York. It may also work out for the Twins too. Time will tell.

 

Great players are developed from within. Sano and Rosario have a chance to be great, so in that sense trading Hicks makes more room for those guys.

[notoriousgod71]

 

Also, did KC win the world series this season with a front of the line starter??? The answer to that is NO absolutely not. Cueto pitched terrible once he was traded to KC. KC won with middle of the line pitching, great defense, being aggressive hitting and base running, and a lights out bullpen. 

 

I don't see where the Twins have any of those things, although they are aggressive "swinging".

[T.C.]

 

And that's why the Twins should have given Hicks and Arcia a chance to platoon in right field. There's no reason not to try a platoon like that for a couple months, especially given the four months Danny Santana got.

I agree. But, doing that would prove that Hicks is merely a "role player" or "platoon mate" and that would be settling for "mediocrity".

 

I'm just saying that calling the Twins actions so far this offseason "settling for mediocrity" is a bit absurd and even a little bit unfair. 

[stringer bell]

OK, I've probably been as harsh a critic of Aaron Hicks as anyone, but all season he looked better up there than he did in his first two seasons. He had a hot month, but even when he wasn't hot, he took better at-bats as a whole. I think he can at least repeat his success of 2015. A couple of posters have noted he should do better in Yankee Stadium, which is a good hitter's park. Target Field is a good hitter's park, too.

[bluechipper]

Settling for mediocrity would be going into next year with Suzuki and Hermann. Hicks could be good, but so could five other outfielders in the organization. If that's all they could get for him, then I guess I'm okay with upgrading the catcher situation the way they did.

[nicksaviking]

Also with as early as this happened it is clear that the Twins had no desire to even kick the tires on bringing in an IMPACT catcher via trade or free agency like Lucroy or Wieters, neither guy is perfect, and neither would be cheap, but at least they have some really nice upside.

I've never been a front office supporter, yet this rashness compelle me to point out that Ryan is now being criticized for being the most aggressive GM in baseball right now.

 

This move does not preclude him from getting an IMPACT catcher later. What likely does preclude him from adding an IMPACT catcher is the fact that there is only one of those on the planet at this time.