Houston series- does management blow it with poor roster construction?

[Kwak]

 

The Rays called David Price up on September 14, 2008, but I don't think they regret not waiting until the next year, although he might still be on the team today if they had waited.

No, not even close.  David Price was traded because Tampa couldn't afford his arbitrated salary  much less his free agent salary.  Most players of his caliber are traded in the last year of control  (like this year) not during the arbitration years.  Price was just too expensive   to retain, especially when the compensation received would be inexpensive (and potentially more valuable).

[notoriousgod71]

 

Vargas would be a great late-inning PH option right now.

 

 

Not as good as Hermann.

[bluechipper]

 

No, not even close.  David Price was traded because Tampa couldn't afford his arbitrated salary  much less his free agent salary.  Most players of his caliber are traded in the last year of control  (like this year) not during the arbitration years.  Price was just too expensive   to retain, especially when the compensation received would be inexpensive (and potentially more valuable)

You're probably right on that. $19.75M in his final arbitration year. Wow. I wonder if the Rays tried to work out a long term deal earlier on in his career to get a few of his FA years, but that might not have even been an option with the Longoria deal, which is an unfortunate situation for the extreme small market teams.

[curt1965]

I totally agree with baseball having unpredictable playoffs, but all I see is Pelfrey and Hughes getting crushed by superior batters.

The worst roster in the history of baseball is a ridiculous statement though. Despite our holes at ss and catcher (even though they are both hot right now) I'm happy with our position players. But, there is no way our below average starters all get hot and win us games. The mind boggles at the potential of a Pelfrey Milne Gibson trio winning the world series.

Please don't misquote me. I didn't say the Twins had the worst roster in the history of baseball. I said "roster construction." There is a LITTLE difference! Having 4- left handed relievers on your staff in this crucial part of the season (well actually anytime!) doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I kinda like their roster, actually. But it's safe to assume our boys lost the last game to the Yanks and ARod because we had to use Graham and O'Rourke in that 9th inning. Do you think Mr. Molitor has any confidence in O'Rourke? That Yankee game was the last time Molly used him.

I don't mind when you disagree with me, but please don't change my words around to make me look stupid.

I can do that by myself!

[SwainZag]

 

Please don't misquote me. I didn't say the Twins had the worst roster in the history of baseball. I said "roster construction." There is a LITTLE difference! Having 4- left handed relievers on your staff in this crucial part of the season (well actually anytime!) doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I kinda like their roster, actually. But it's safe to assume our boys lost the last game to the Yanks and ARod because we had to use Graham and O'Rourke in that 9th inning. Do you think Mr. Molitor has any confidence in O'Rourke? That Yankee game was the last time Molly used him.
I don't mind when you disagree with me, but please don't change my words around to make me look stupid.
I can do that by myself!

 

Since the Cotts trade that put them at 4 lefties in the pen, they have went 7-1.  And if you are referring to the ARod Grand Slam, it was in the 7th inning off of Graham, not the ninth.  

[AlwaysinModeration]

 

I think that the series with the Rangers and Angels are equally important (or even more, because the Twins are not chasing the Astros.) If the Twins beat those teams, win or sweep the home series and don't get swept on the road, they are in...

Are we sure the Twins aren't chasing the Astros?

[Twins7]

Is berrios in AAA right now because of service time issues? I thought it was because they didn't think he was ready to provide an upgrade over any of our current, more entrenched pitchers (though these last couple of outings might be evidence that he is ready). Who in the rotation is he expected to replace? Santana? I think there needs to be an injury to get him in the rotation right now. And, not sure how many more innings he's expected to pitch. Bullpen might be a different story, but it might take him a week or two to get him ready to pitch in that role.

[Mike Sixel]

Since the Cotts trade that put them at 4 lefties in the pen, they have went 7-1. And if you are referring to the ARod Grand Slam, it was in the 7th inning off of Graham, not the ninth.

This is terrible logic. If you drive drunk and don't kill anyone, that does not make it a good decision.

[stringer bell]

 

This is terrible logic. If you drive drunk and don't kill anyone, that does not make it a good decision.

It seems to me that it really doesn't matter how many left handers are in the bullpen. It matters whether they can get hitters out. Perkins looked good last night, Cotts is a veteran guy and Duensing has had a nice career and is pitching better late than he did early. O'Rourke is supposed to be a LOOGy and he had immediate success in that role. I guess I'd rather have a bench bat than O'Rourke, but with the use the bullpen has endured in the last two weeks, it makes some sense to keep an extra arm in the bullpen.

 

[blairpaul715]

 

It seems to me that it really doesn't matter how many left handers are in the bullpen. It matters whether they can get hitters out. Perkins looked good last night, Cotts is a veteran guy and Duensing has had a nice career and is pitching better late than he did early. O'Rourke is supposed to be a LOOGy and he had immediate success in that role. I guess I'd rather have a bench bat than O'Rourke, but with the use the bullpen has endured in the last two weeks, it makes some sense to keep an extra arm in the bullpen.

Like you , I dont like having that 8th reliever, but it is a necessary evil......we will soon have as many options as we like in 3 days........with that said I wonder how many they will call up on the 1st(im guessing , 1 or 2 hitters, and 1 or 2 pitchers), and how many they will wait on till the end of the Minor league season.

[stringer bell]

 

Like you , I dont like having that 8th reliever, but it is a necessary evil......we will soon have as many options as we like in 3 days........with that said I wonder how many they will call up on the 1st(im guessing , 1 or 2 hitters, and 1 or 2 pitchers), and how many they will wait on till the end of the Minor league season.

Beating my own drum a bit, I wrote a blog entry about that issue. Since they are legitimately in a pennant race, I expect at least two and probably three relievers and a minimum of two position players (probably three) on Tuesday. IIRC, Hicks is eligible to return from the DL on Thursday.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

Is berrios in AAA right now because of service time issues? I thought it was because they didn't think he was ready to provide an upgrade over any of our current, more entrenched pitchers (though these last couple of outings might be evidence that he is ready). Who in the rotation is he expected to replace? Santana? I think there needs to be an injury to get him in the rotation right now. And, not sure how many more innings he's expected to pitch. Bullpen might be a different story, but it might take him a week or two to get him ready to pitch in that role.

 

If the team to a stance and didn't call him or shut him down I could get on board with it, if the reason was to save on his service time clock. I honestly can get on board with that being the best overall move for the teams future. But, if they do those things due to the FO opinion that he is not ready or doesn't improve the rotation/pen, well then that is absurd, IMHO.

 

What percentage of games have our SP's had quality starts in since the break? Who is our weakest link in the pen? I don't care where they put him, but if service clock isn't the reason he isn't up, I just can't fathom that argument for that decision. He would be an upgrade to either the pen or rotation at the moment, and you can't tell me that whomever is #40 on the 40 man roster isn't completely replaceable within or out. 

 

Again, I am fine if they shut him down or decide to make the business decision to keep him down, but not any explanation of not being ready, or that they could not find someone that he would be an improvement over. 

 

I just hope, that the two worst non-injury scenarios happen; that he either gets held back and the Twins just miss the playoff, or that he gets brought up and that we don't finish very close to the final wild card spot. I will trust in TR, and hope he's right on this one. I don't have a choice either.

[bird]

 

It seems to me that it really doesn't matter how many left handers are in the bullpen. It matters whether they can get hitters out. Perkins looked good last night, Cotts is a veteran guy and Duensing has had a nice career and is pitching better late than he did early. O'Rourke is supposed to be a LOOGy and he had immediate success in that role. I guess I'd rather have a bench bat than O'Rourke, but with the use the bullpen has endured in the last two weeks, it makes some sense to keep an extra arm in the bullpen.

 

 

This is terrific logic. If you drove sober and got where you intended to go, you made a good decision.

[Twins7]

If the team to a stance and didn't call him or shut him down I could get on board with it, if the reason was to save on his service time clock. I honestly can get on board with that being the best overall move for the teams future. But, if they do those things due to the FO opinion that he is not ready or doesn't improve the rotation/pen, well then that is absurd, IMHO.

 

What percentage of games have our SP's had quality starts in since the break? Who is our weakest link in the pen? I don't care where they put him, but if service clock isn't the reason he isn't up, I just can't fathom that argument for that decision. He would be an upgrade to either the pen or rotation at the moment, and you can't tell me that whomever is #40 on the 40 man roster isn't completely replaceable within or out. 

 

Again, I am fine if they shut him down or decide to make the business decision to keep him down, but not any explanation of not being ready, or that they could not find someone that he would be an improvement over. 

 

I just hope, that the two worst non-injury scenarios happen; that he either gets held back and the Twins just miss the playoff, or that he gets brought up and that we don't finish very close to the final wild card spot. I will trust in TR, and hope he's right on this one. I don't have a choice either.

 

Yeah, you're probably right. Any official word from the twins on an innings limit for Berrios? I wonder if it's a combination of service time and protecting his arm. Not sure they'd want to start his clock for 1-2 starts in the MLs, especially if it might take him that long to adjust to the competition...

 

I'm intrigued with him as a bullpen guy, but not necessarily in high leverage situations out of the gate. Might be good in long relief for a while, but again, what's the point of calling him up and starting his clock for mop up duty?

 

My gut is that protecting his arm is TRs number one priority for berrios, and I'm ok with that. I wouldn't be surprised if he found a way to get him some innings with the big club, but I also wouldn't be outraged if he remained at AAA for the remainder of the year. I'm not convinced that he would be the difference maker in us missing or making the postseason.

[Thrylos]

 

Are we sure the Twins aren't chasing the Astros?

 

As much as they are chasing Toronto...  They are both division leaders and the Twins are 5+ games behind each.  TX and CA are +/= one game...

[RaymondLuxuryYacht]

 

Well, just saw the lineup posted for tonight, so I guess the answer to the thread is an unequivocal yes. Mystery solved, we can close the thread now.

 

I think we can say, unequivocally, good call.

[twinsnorth49]

I think we can say, unequivocally, good call.

So you're saying my reverse jinx worked then?

 

You're welcome.

[Twins7]

Actually, looking at the 40-man roster, it looks like wheeler and Darnell are a couple of guys I could see us cutting. Perhaps pressly, since he's on the 60 day dl. If you look at the twins 40 man roster (http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=min), they list 42 guys because pressly and nolasco are on the 60 day dl.

 

If we called up Berrios today, how would you handle the 40 man roster decision? Keep in mind that nolasco will need a spot when he returns. And, if we give berrios a spot, does that mean that we have to keep him there? When you drop a guy from the 40, he can be claimed by waivers, correct?

 

I'm not arguing that 40 man roster considerations would be prohibitive to berrios being promoted, just curious as to what it would cost us.

[Craig Arko]

Pretty sure being on the 60-day DL means you don't use a spot on the 40-man.

[Twins7]

Yeah, that's right. Nolasco will need a spot when he comes back, though.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Re: 40-man, if Nolasco and Pressly don't come back this season, they can take the spots of free agents (Pelf, Torii, Boyer, Duensing, Cotts). Nunez and Robinson might get non tendered.

 

Thompson and Wheeler are two guys who could be dropped today. Darnell doesn't appear to be in our plans either.

[Twins7]

Re: 40-man, if Nolasco and Pressly don't come back this season, they can take the spots of free agents (Pelf, Torii, Boyer, Duensing, Cotts). Nunez and Robinson might get non tendered.

Thompson and Wheeler are two guys who could be dropped today. Darnell doesn't appear to be in our plans either.

Ah, forgot about the FAs. Yeah, looks like it wouldn't be a problem at all to add him. Thanks!

[AlwaysinModeration]

 

 

As much as they are chasing Toronto...  They are both division leaders and the Twins are 5+ games behind each.  TX and CA are +/= one game...

 

This was in response to my question "Are we sure the Twins aren't chasing Houston?"  I think my question has increased validity now....that they are chasing Houston.