Article: Twins Transactions: Buxton Activated, Optioned to AAA

[drjim]

So, are we guessing right around 1 Sept is the out of the blue, no reason at all, pure coincidence of a time-frame where he will magically be healthy enough and have curve balls conquered to make the jump back to the majors?

No reason it can't be earlier.

[drjim]

Yeah, that's beyond silly. The Twins have kept up plenty of struggling players over the years. Gomez, Hicks, Santana, etc etc etc

You acknowledge no difference between keeping up a struggling player and not recalling one?

[DaveW]

No reason it can't be earlier.

Can't be earlier than Aug 21st.

[drjim]

The twins clearly don't think so. Otherwise Robinson wouldn't be on this team and Suzuki wouldn't be the starting C, neither has done anything to "earn" their current roles. And this isn't even including the bullpen mess and SS mess.

So you cite a backup of, a catcher with no alternative and messes that don't have a selected players locked in as the comps?

 

I can't take that seriously.

[DaveW]

You acknowledge no difference between keeping up a struggling player and not recalling one?

I acknowledge that the Twins are the worst team in baseball since the all star break. They have the number 1 prospect in baseball who is now healthy and has proved he deserves a good long chance currently at the major league level. I acknowledge that there is no reason why he should be one of the 25 guys currently on the major league roster.

[drjim]

Can't be earlier than Aug 21st.

And it probably shouldn't.

[drjim]

I acknowledge that the Twins are the worst team in baseball since the all star break. They have the number 1 prospect in baseball who is now healthy and has proved he deserves a good long chance currently at the major league level. I acknowledge that there is no reason why he should be one of the 25 guys currently on the major league roster.

You mean other than the 7 weeks he just spent not playing baseball? The fact he has serious injury concerns? Or the fact he struggled mightily his first go around?

 

Do you want the guy to have the best chance to succeed?

[jokin]

 

And it probably shouldn't.

 

Yeah, and I suppose that's because the magic major league cruveball-hitting beans don't kick in until August 22nd?

[DaveW]

So you cite a backup of, a catcher with no alternative and messes that don't have a selected players locked in as the comps?

 

I can't take that seriously.

There have been and currently are plenty of alternatives for Suzuki.

 

Also, hunter isn't "locked in" he has to take a minimum of 2 days off a week at this point, and Rosario is pulled for tough LHP anyways.

 

That is even before we get into Mauer and his one day off a week (opens up DH for Hunter)

 

Robinson is playing 2-3 times per week. He should not be. Buxton would certain be significantly better option then him for now and the future.

[jokin]

 

You mean other than the 7 weeks he just spent not playing baseball? The fact he has serious injury concerns? Or the fact he struggled mightily his first go around?

Do you want the guy to have the best chance to succeed?

 

Precisely, by working on the exact thing he needs to master in order to become a perennial team leader as quickly as possible, yeah, it's very arguable that that is exactly what will give him the best chance to succeed.

Edited August 11, 2015 by jokin

[DaveW]

You mean other than the 7 weeks he just spent not playing baseball? The fact he has serious injury concerns? Or the fact he struggled mightily his first go around?

 

Do you want the guy to have the best chance to succeed?

He played 11 games!!! The whole team struggled during that time. The offense scored 3 or less runs in 7 of those games. 2 or less in 5 of those games. He had 37 at bats! And fwiw he went 4-14 in his last 3 games .333 BA anyways before the injury. And yeah he was 0-4 with 4ks in his last MLB game, but I will give him a slight pass since that was against Chris Sale who likely will win the Cy Young this year or very soon

 

Also a broken finger is NOT a serious injury. Please.

Edited August 11, 2015 by DaveW

[jokin]

 

There have been and currently are plenty of alternatives for Suzuki.

Also, hunter isn't "locked in" he has to take a minimum of 2 days off a week at this point, and Rosario is pulled for tough LHP anyways.

That is even before we get into Mauer and his one day off a week (opens up DH for Hunter)

Robinson is playing 2-3 times per week. He should not be. Buxton would certain be significantly better option then him for now and the future.

 

I'd like to hear from just one person on the other side of this debate- who evidently all believe that the Twins are still in the thick of the playoff hunt- who can therefore logically defend starting Shane Robinson ANY days of the week... ???

[Jham]

Seriously, what has Shane Robinson done wrong this year?  I can see the frustration with Suzuki and before him Santana, but Robinson has gone about his business and performed admirably as a utility outfielder, IMO.  

 

What indication has Buxton shown that he's ready for the Major Leagues?  When was the last time he dominated at the minor league level to the extent a top prospect should dominate?  Others say Kepler's bat is already more advanced than Buxton.  To expect him to come up and be better than Hunter right off an injury is unlikely at best.  Let's see how his recovery goes.  I personally don't have a problem with the pay.  Perhaps this is a little organizational message to him about being smart and taking care of his money makers.  He can really go get it, but if his hands and wrists go, he's useless.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Jham

[twinsnorth49]

I'd like to hear from just one person on the other side of this debate- who evidently all believe that the Twins are still in the thick of the playoff hunt- who can therefore logically defend starting Shane Robinson ANY days of the week... ???

It absolutely kills me how this gets conveniently glossed over by all the folks who say Buxton needs to earn his way up or has no business being on the roster.

[DaveW]

Seriously, what has Shane Robinson done wrong this year? I can see the frustration with Suzuki and before him Santana, but Robinson has gone about his business and performed admirably as a utility outfielder, IMO.

 

What indication has Buxton shown that he's ready for the Major Leagues? When was the last time he dominated at the minor league level to the extent a top prospect should dominate? Others say Kepler's bat is already more advanced than Buxton. To expect him to come up and be better than Hunter right off an injury is unlikely at best. Let's see how his recovery goes. I personally don't have a problem with the pay. Perhaps this is a little organizational message to him about being smart and taking care of his money makers. He can really go get it, but if his hands and wrists go, he's useless.

What has Shane Robinson done right this year? (Knuckleballs in blowouts don't count)

[drjim]

Robinson is such a red herring in discussing Buxton. Teams aren't going to bring elite prospects up that aren't fully developed to play part time because they are better than 4th ofs (before September).

 

This is player development 101. Even an incompetent org like the Twins can figure that out.

 

People do understand how teams build depth with prospects and don't have them up in the bigs to play part time roles right? There is a reason that veteran players or low ceiling guys take bench spots for most of the year.

[jokin]

 

 

 

<1> What indication has Buxton shown that he's ready for the Major Leagues? <2>  When was the last time he dominated at the minor league level to the extent a top prospect should dominate?  Others say Kepler's bat is already more advanced than Buxton.  <3>To expect him to come up and be better than Hunter right off an injury is unlikely at best.  <4>Let's see how his recovery goes.  I personally don't have a problem with the pay.  Perhaps this is a little organizational message to him about being smart and taking care of his money makers.  He can really go get it, but if his hands and wrists go, he's useless.

 

<1> The fact that he was called up, did a fine job in CF, and was learning on the job how to hit MLB breaking balls- his one and only impediment to MLB stardom.

 

<2> Last time he dominated in the minors...?  Gee, how about the month just before July?

 

<3> And I don't think anyone has argued that he's going to be better than Hunter right off the bat.  That's a "Look! Squirrel!" argument.

 

<4> The rehab has evidently gone fine, he's 5-12, stolen a base, played CF flawlessly... OH! and the Twins FO has determined he's plenty healthy enough to remove him from his rehab assignment.

[glunn]

 

You are right, I can't say with a fact what Ryan did or did not do at the deadline.(btw implying that I was saying he was eating Bon bons or watching Netflix when I never implied any such thing is the exact thing as flame baiting and trolling)

TR has been a GM for 17 years, and for 17 out of 17 years he has not ONCE been what most outside observers and Twins fans ever call "aggressive" at the trade deadline. Not. once. So sure, maybe this year he was oh oh oh so close to pulling off a move for a Tulo or a catcher, but the last 17 years of results tell a very different story.

call it trolling or whatever you want, 17 for 17 years isn't jumping to wild conclusions, it's very much a trend. Ryan is most likely the most conservative GM in baseball, please feel free to refute with arguments back that don't include me dismissing him as some Neflix and Bon Bons binger.

 

I was trying to inject some humor with the Bon Bons, as well as admit that for all I know TR was totally goofing off.  

 

My point remains that you detract from the discussion when you say with apparent certainty that Ryan refused to make any relevant move and that he has given up, and then you dismiss the arguments of other posters without any substantive reasoning.

 

You may be correct or the other side may be correct.  Frankly, I really don't care.  My post was a moderator warning to everyone who has been messing up what could be a much better thread, and you were merely the latest example.  If you want, we can take this to the Twinscentric forum and debate it, but not here.

[jokin]

 

Robinson is such a red herring in discussing Buxton. Teams aren't going to bring elite prospects up that aren't fully developed to play part time because they are better than 4th ofs (before September).

This is player development 101. Even an incompetent org like the Twins can figure that out.

People do understand how teams build depth with prospects and don't have them up in the bigs to play part time roles right? There is a reason that veteran players or low ceiling guys take bench spots for most of the year.

\

Except it's already been demonstrated over and over again on this thread and others, that there is plenty of flexibility without Robinson on the roster to get Buxton playing time almost every day of the week between giving days off to the other 3 OFers and Mauer.

Edited August 11, 2015 by jokin

[DaveW]

Call Robinson a "4th Of" all you want, but he has started in 40% of the last 15 games.

[stringer bell]

My gripe with Robinson starting as many games as he has lately is that there is one too many pitchers on the active roster. A competent hitter to fill in as a a DH/corner outfielder so that Hunter, Rosario or Mauer could have a day off. Shane Robinson should be a defensive replacement, pinch runner and position player to pitch an inning in a blowout.

 

As was mentioned earlier, no organization would call up a top prospect to have him play two or three times a week. I don't think such usage would be a positive for the player or for the team. Further, I believe that Buck will benefit by playing 15-20 games for the Red Wings.

 

Certainly, if Hicks were struggling, it would change the calculation of whether Buxton should be in the majors. It appears to me that Buxton would not make much of an impact at this stage of the season coming off of more than six weeks on the DL.

[jokin]

 

 

 

Certainly, if Hicks were struggling, it would change the calculation of whether Buxton should be in the majors. It appears to me that Buxton would not make much of an impact at this stage of the season coming off of more than six weeks on the DL.

 

Buck may, or may not, have much impact.  But the alternatives to Buxton are demonstrably worse- or in the case of Kepler entirely untested.  

 

The ultimate benefit being that Buxton gets 200 more much-needed MLB PAs this year in preparation for next year.

Edited August 11, 2015 by jokin

[ScrapTheNickname]

The main thing is Buxton's development.

 

He didn't perform well at all at the ML level, and then he got injured, so his being at AAA makes perfect sense.

 

Let him learn plate discipline, and we'll see him at the ML soon enough.

[SydneyTwinsFan]

My take on a few of the threads running through this discussion:

 

I have zero problem with giving Buxton another 7-10 days at AAA to get his timing back.  I get that he's gone 5-12 in 3 games back, but he needs to get used to playing baseball every day after 6-7 weeks off. What I don't understand is why that couldn't have been done by continuing the rehab assignment rather than going the option route. If using the option is a signal that Buxton is done with the Major League club for the season (or at least until September), that strikes me as idiotic if only because...

 

...Shane Robinson has no business being on this roster.  There is also no need for more than 7 RPs.  There should be room to now add Buxton (once the rust is knocked off) at the expense of one of those guys, even if it is only to play sporadically at first. It's bizarre and borderline negligent that another bat that actually could have helped the team win hasn't already been added (Arcia should have been up weeks ago, or Vargas who looks to have his mojo back after destroying AA for the past couple of weeks).  Sadly though, it looks like that horse has bolted and the opportunity to improve the team when it actually mattered has been lost, which means...

 

... while Hunter has been pretty much as advertised (decent pop, below average defense, good clubhouse leader) and has played his part, if the team falls properly out of contention over the next week or so (as seems likely) then he needs to accept his contribution for the rest of the year will be more mentor / less playing time.  It's more important that Buxton and Arcia get reps in September as a prelude to 2016 than it is to roll with the Hunter Retirement Roadshow.

 

This last month or two has been plagued by roster mismanagement.  I hope optioning Buxton isn't latest example of that.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Keeping Hunter as starter means Robinson is not a backup, but a 2-3 times per week part-time starter. I can see how Buxton could be an improvement over that arrangement, or at least deserve a chance to be.

[TheLeviathan]

Robinson should have been replaced by Arcia several weeks ago, I'm not sure that argument is all that important to Buxton given that,

 

No one is arguing Buxton is going to figure anything out in 20 games in AAA (like I imagine none of you are suggesting he magically acclimates to MLB pitching in 20 extra games either right? So let's cut that nonsense), but it does ease him back in a little bit to get his timing, strengthen his hand, and maybe work with some coaches on protecting himself while playing everyday rather than 40% of the time for a few weeks.

 

Then hopefully he can play with some regularity in September.

[Platoon]

This is exactly why I was, have been, and will be against Hunters signing last year, and this coming year. First it made an uncomfortable and all ready defensive RF move to LF this spring, and now he is not only blocking Buxton, he will end up costing either Rosario, Arcia, Hicks, or more likely Kepler a ML job next year. It's decisions like this that have turned the term "Twins Way" into such a derisive term.

[Blackjack]

 

Hey, we all want our new toy. I get that. But we also sometimes need to wait for Christmas.

 

 

Best line in the whole article!! Patience is a virtue!!!!

[spinowner]

 

Call Robinson a "4th Of" all you want, but he has started in 40% of the last 15 games.

If 4 outfielders split starts equally each one would start in 75% of the games. So starting in 40% of the games is probably about typical for a reserve outfielder.

[Blackjack]

 

 Do you really think it's his fault he's been hurt so much?

 

Yes!!!!  He needs to play smarter, not harder, he needs to realize that he shouldn't try to make a spectacular catch on every ball, save the hi-lite reel catches for the bottom of the ninth or a playoff game!  He doesn't need to be superman, he just needs to use his natural speed and talent. He's worth more to the Twins on the field than on the injured list and taking the risk of that diving, spectacular catch that has a high chance of injuring himself is not smart.