Alex Meyer Bullpen Success

[Loosey]

Alex Meyer has been pitching pretty well out of the pen recently.  He seems to be throwing more strikes and has yet to give up a run in a relief appearance.  That being said I do have a question about this move that I haven't seen addressed anywhere. 

 

Is Meyer now going to exclusively be a bullpen arm or was his move to the pen more temporary to get his head straight?

 

A week or two before he was "demoted" to the pen I made a suggestion in one of these threads to move him to the bullpen temporarily to get him his confidence back and more consistent game action out of the pen, and if he is successful in that role give him another shot at starting.

 

Have the Twins made mention to what their plan is for Meyer long-term now?  Also, what does everyone else think they should do with him.  I still think he should get a shot at starting again.  He definitely has the raw stuff to be very good, and I once his confidence is back I think he can be successful again.

[blairpaul715]

 

Alex Meyer has been pitching pretty well out of the pen recently.  He seems to be throwing more strikes and has yet to give up a run in a relief appearance.  That being said I do have a question about this move that I haven't seen addressed anywhere. 

 

Is Meyer now going to exclusively be a bullpen arm or was his move to the pen more temporary to get his head straight?

 

A week or two before he was "demoted" to the pen I made a suggestion in one of these threads to move him to the bullpen temporarily to get him his confidence back and more consistent game action out of the pen, and if he is successful in that role give him another shot at starting.

 

Have the Twins made mention to what their plan is for Meyer long-term now?  Also, what does everyone else think they should do with him.  I still think he should get a shot at starting again.  He definitely has the raw stuff to be very good, and I once his confidence is back I think he can be successful again.

They have said it is temporary, I wish i could remember exactly where i read that................I think let him relieve for a bit yet, maybe even all yr if they think he could help in the bullpen this yr , if we are in contention(highly unlikely the Twins do this, not ever their MO), then let him have another chance to start next yr(more value, if good) , and if he falters again, then bullpen fulltime, he will be a good bullpen guy if he cant start, he is a Major leaguer one way or the other.

[Vanimal46]

I agree with blairpaul, the best bet for him to make an impact on the MLB club this year would be from the bullpen. Perhaps they're getting him used to coming out in the 7th-8th innings and throw gas. Long-term I'd like to see him back in the rotation as that provides more value. But if he found his niche in the bullpen, that's not all bad either. Better than having a struggling AAA starter that will never see the MLB lights.

[nicksaviking]

The front office said it was temporary.  Who knows what the future will hold though. 

 

Suddenly, the Twins rotation has too many pitchers for too few spots while the bullpen is falling apart.  I wouldn't be surprised if the intention really is to move him back to the rotation, but due to need, he stays in the pen.

 

The Cardinals have brought up nearly all of their top pitching prospects and stuck them in the pen.  Shelby Miller, Lance Lynn, Marco Gonzalez and Joe Kelly all spent minimal time in the MLB pen then were moved to the rotatoin.  Carlos Martinez spent all of last year in the pen and now is moved to the rotation.  Meanwhile Trevor Rosenthal got moved to the pen and never came back, of course he's one of the best closers in the game.

 

Somehow whenever St. Louis brings up their prospects and plugs them into the pen, they seem to all have some degree of success no matter what path they eventually put them on.  I guess I'm fine brigning Meyer up and plugging him in the pen and see what happens from there.  Maybe it'll work in Minnesota too.

[SockNet]

I'd like him for bullpen help this year as it looks like it is scuffling a bit right now. Maybe available for a spot start if necessary.

[blairpaul715]

I dont like the Cardinals, but not a bad team to to emulate, the consistency and resilency of that organization is remarkable.

[drjim]

This is another classic showdown between front office and field staff. Field staff would take him in the bullpen right now, and some of conversation in the spring from the field staff was that bullpen would probably be where he ends up. Front office wants to keep up the possibility of getting him to start again soon, after temporary movement into the pen.

 

I support keeping a pitcher developing as a starter as long as possible because the payoff is larger, but probably time to make this permanent.

[Parker Hageman]

Is Meyer now going to exclusively be a bullpen arm or was his move to the pen more temporary to get his head straight?

 

 

Multiple members of the front office have said it is temporary.

 

I watched his outing on Sunday and the during the broadcast it was mentioned that as he moved to the bullpen, he worked on elevating his release point which had dropped at the end of last year in conjunction with his shoulder injury. His release point was definitely higher than at the beginning of this year but while was able to work three scoreless innings with allowing just one hit, he was all over the place with his fastball. He was hitting 97 on the stadium gun (fwiw). 

 

[kab21]

I have a sneaky suspicion that we have seen the last of him as a starter.  Either he continues to pitch well in the bullpen and gets called up.  Or he starts to struggle in the bullpen and we have a real problem on our hands.  that problem is that he isn't good anywhere. 

 

I wish he was a starter but there was always talk that this might happen.

[HitInAPinch]

Terry Ryan said/says:

 

4/18

http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_27943329/meyer-lacks-confidence

 

5/27

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/The_mechanical_fix_the_Twins_want_to_see_from_Alex_Meyer_in_bullpen052715

 

Bullpen is temporary, only, to get him back on-track to be a front-of-the-line starter.

[kab21]

He has certainly said that it's temporary but I have a feeling that this isn't temporary.

[Loosey]

My concern is he turns into a higher end Anthony Swarzak.  Which isn't terrible, it just seems like his pure ability will be of higher value as a starter and I hope that is where he ends up.  I do like the idea of the Cardinals approach to starting guys out in the bullpen in the majors and then moving them to the rotation when they are ready.  And as others have mentioned the Twins bullpen is starting to show what it really is.  My thoughts are bring in Meyer as a reliever in majors and let him taste some success in big leagues and then at the end of the year or next season give him every opportunity to be a starter.  If he struggles again, then it is pretty obvious he isn't meant to be a starter. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

My concern is he turns into a higher end Anthony Swarzak.

Swarzak?  5.6 career K/9 in AAA, eventual long reliever in MLB.

 

I don't think that's the profile or plan for Meyer in the pen at all.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The Cardinals have brought up nearly all of their top pitching prospects and stuck them in the pen.  Shelby Miller, Lance Lynn, Marco Gonzalez and Joe Kelly all spent minimal time in the MLB pen then were moved to the rotatoin.  Carlos Martinez spent all of last year in the pen and now is moved to the rotation.  Meanwhile Trevor Rosenthal got moved to the pen and never came back, of course he's one of the best closers in the game.

None of those guys moved to the pen in the minors, though.  None of them struggled to any great degree as starters in the minors either.  Most were a lot younger than Meyer too.

 

They went to the pen because that's where the MLB club had an opening at that moment.  So it made sense that most of them went back to starting.

[jokin]

 

The front office said it was temporary.  Who knows what the future will hold though. 

 

Suddenly, the Twins rotation has too many pitchers for too few spots while the bullpen is falling apart.  I wouldn't be surprised if the intention really is to move him back to the rotation, but due to need, he stays in the pen.

 

The Cardinals have brought up nearly all of their top pitching prospects and stuck them in the pen.  Shelby Miller, Lance Lynn, Marco Gonzalez and Joe Kelly all spent minimal time in the MLB pen then were moved to the rotatoin.  Carlos Martinez spent all of last year in the pen and now is moved to the rotation.  Meanwhile Trevor Rosenthal got moved to the pen and never came back, of course he's one of the best closers in the game.

 

Somehow whenever St. Louis brings up their prospects and plugs them into the pen, they seem to all have some degree of success no matter what path they eventually put them on.  I guess I'm fine brigning Meyer up and plugging him in the pen and see what happens from there.  Maybe it'll work in Minnesota too.

 

Carlos Martinez, good example, pretty much only relieved @ the MLB level until this year.  And while his K/9 has gone UP this year, and he has an Alex Meyer-like K/BB-  K/9 10.02  BB/9 4.04

 

Add Michael Wacha, technically, who started in hist first 4 MLB appearances, went to the pen for the next 6, then started his last 5 games, back in 2013.

 

Add Jaime Garcia who relieved his first 9 of 10 games in his rookie year.

 

 

[Shane Wahl]

A temporary move might entail the rest of the 2015 season as "temporary" here, with bullpen time with the Twins possible.

[jokin]

 

None of those guys moved to the pen in the minors, though.  None of them struggled to any great degree as starters in the minors either.  Most were a lot younger than Meyer too.

 

They went to the pen because that's where the MLB club had an opening at that moment.  So it made sense that most of them went back to starting.

 

I think the Twins have multiple openings in the pen.  At the moment, with Molitor essentially playing Russian Roulette on a nightly basis, I would suggest the Twins conduct an open tryout.

[jokin]

None of those guys moved to the pen in the minors, though.  None of them struggled to any great degree as starters in the minors either.  Most were a lot younger than Meyer too.

 

They went to the pen because that's where the MLB club had an opening at that moment.  So it made sense that most of them went back to starting.

None of them were 6'9" either.

[drjim]

 

None of those guys moved to the pen in the minors, though.  None of them struggled to any great degree as starters in the minors either.  Most were a lot younger than Meyer too.

 

They went to the pen because that's where the MLB club had an opening at that moment.  So it made sense that most of them went back to starting.

 

This is often lost when people continually cite the Cardinals. It was kind of a perfect combination of starter slots filled, young arms ready who also needed to limit innings, and a need for a competing team. It worked for them at that time, but isn't the only model.

 

Meyer is probably past the point where this is a comparable developmental strategy, but I do think that Berrios could be an intriguing candidate for this type of treatment, either later this year or at some point next year.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I think the Twins have multiple openings in the pen.  At the moment, with Molitor essentially playing Russian Roulette on a nightly basis, I would suggest the Twins conduct an open tryout.

Agreed.  And Meyer would have better fit that profile in 2014 or spring 2015.  Right now, though, he's in the pen because he's a struggling starting prospect.

 

Doesn't mean he can't become a good/great reliever, and quickly, but it casts doubt on the idea that he could still move back to starting as easily as the Cardinals guys.

[nicksaviking]

 

None of them were 6'9" either.

 

And none of them played for the Twins.  Just because the Twins may not have the caliber of starting pitching talent St. Louis had, doesn't mean they can't give their methodology a shot.  Clearly, an initial move to the pen doesn't mean starting is off the table in the future.

[jokin]

This is often lost when people continually cite the Cardinals. It was kind of a perfect combination of starter slots filled, young arms ready who also needed to limit innings, and a need for a competing team. It worked for them at that time, but isn't the only model.

 

<b>Meyer is probably past the point where this is a comparable developmental strategy,</b> but I do think that Berrios could be an intriguing candidate for this type of treatment, either later this year or at some point next year.

6'9" guys are never on a "comparable developmental strategy".

[kab21]

 

My concern is he turns into a higher end Anthony Swarzak.  Which isn't terrible, it just seems like his pure ability will be of higher value as a starter and I hope that is where he ends up.  I do like the idea of the Cardinals approach to starting guys out in the bullpen in the majors and then moving them to the rotation when they are ready.  And as others have mentioned the Twins bullpen is starting to show what it really is.  My thoughts are bring in Meyer as a reliever in majors and let him taste some success in big leagues and then at the end of the year or next season give him every opportunity to be a starter.  If he struggles again, then it is pretty obvious he isn't meant to be a starter. 

If he is anything similar to Swarzak then he doesn't have much of a future as a RP or SP.

[drjim]

 

6'9" guys are never on a "comparable developmental strategy".

 

Agreed. Which makes citing the Cardinals examples useless.

 

That said, I want Meyer in the mlb pen sooner rather than later. This is not a strategy to maximize his development as a starter, it is because I think that is his destiny. If somehow Meyer puts a third pitch and command together and the Twins deem it worthwhile, they can explore trying him in the rotation again in a year or two.

[USAFChief]

Make the move semi-permanent, start giving him back to back one inning appearances, and hopefully have him in the big league pen in ten days or so.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

At the moment, there is no one in the bullpen who you feel good about coming in, who you know can give you that quick, shutout inning. That's bad news.

 

Thielbar had an amazing shutout streak when he was first called up. Maybe a guy from the minors like Achter or Meyer or even a AA guy could give the bullpen that shot in the arm.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Thielbar had an amazing shutout streak when he was first called up. Maybe a guy from the minors like Achter or Meyer or even a AA guy could give the bullpen that shot in the arm.

Thielbar was also being used in very low-leverage situations.  Tied for 6th on the club in game-entering leverage index for 2013 with Swarzak, just ahead of Rule 5'er Pressly.

 

Still, I'm all for auditioning some new bullpen blood, even if it was low-leverage to begin with.

[jokin]

Agreed. Which makes citing the Cardinals examples useless.

 

That said, I want Meyer in the mlb pen sooner rather than later. This is not a strategy to maximize his development as a starter, it is because I think that is his destiny. If somehow Meyer puts a third pitch and command together and the Twins deem it worthwhile, they can explore trying him in the rotation again in a year or two.

Cardinals' examples useless? Based on lots of history, I'm thinking the Cards would have developed an active plan for Meyer, adjusting for height. Adam Wainwright (6'7") at age 22 had a K/9 of 9.0 and a BB/9 of 4.0 in AAA, numbers for which they put their plan in place for age 23 back again in AAA, he was a full-time reliever for the Cards at age 24, with 61 appearances, before heading back to full-time starter at age 25.

 

Assuming Meyer is 100% healthy, get him up in the major league pen, there are at least 3 guys for whom he's clearly a better option right now.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Cardinals' examples useless? Based on lots of history, I'm thinking the Cards would have developed an active plan for Meyer, adjusting for height. Adam Wainwright (6'7") at age 22 had a K/9 of 9.0 and a BB/9 of 4.0 in AAA, numbers for which they put their plan in place for age 23 back again in AAA, he was a full-time reliever for the Cards at age 24, with 61 appearances, before heading back to full-time starter at age 25.

Wainwright is a bit better example than the earlier mentioned ones, because he did scuffle some at AAA although it was the PCL.

 

I will note that there was a LOT more data to formulate a plan for Wainwright -- he was a HS draftee with more than twice the number of career minor league innings as Meyer to date.  (By their respective 24th birthdays, Wainwright had almost four times as many career innings as Meyer.)

[jimbo92107]

I still think it's a form issue. They're trying to get Meyer to refine his balance point by forcing him to pitch from the set. They may also be working on abbreviating his delivery from the windup, so he can fix his control issues. If that means serving as a bullpen guy for half a season, so be it. Some pitchers end up eliminating their wind up deliver completely. Maybe Meyer is one of those guys.