Santana Optioned, Vargas Recalled

[tobi0040]

 

I'd bet we hear talk of an extension soon......

 

We just can't.  I wouldn't be surprised.  But we just can't.  152 IP at a 5.19 ERA. Then a 7.99 ERA over 23 innings.  Now 67 IP at a 2.28 ERA (3.84 FIP).  

 

3 years and 33M.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Nope. Split seems to be between those he said he didn't learn anything and those who said he had nothing to learn in AAA.

 

And Vargas was down for 3 weeks.

 

I very much appreciate your consistency in viewpoint despite the move, but you're sort of alone in that.  Most people that were defending the Vargas demotion have flipped their position along with the transaction.  As if some magical light-switch got flipped that made their reasoning consistent.

 

That's a bit hard to swallow.

[Squirrel]

 

I'd bet we hear talk of an extension soon......

I hope not. The only way that happens if they trade a couple pitchers away. I know everyone thinks that's how the Twins roll, and based on the past, I can't exactly refute that, but I just don't think it will happen this time. (Hope!)

[big dog]

I don't have any idea what a particular player might learn in a 3-week AAA assignment after being in the bigs for almost a year.  But I bet this is what I would learn/remember:

 

- after being in the majors, the minors really suck

- I like flying better than bus rides

- I will do whatever it takes to get back

- if I get back, I will do whatever it takes to stay

- I will do what my coaches tell me.  Joyfully, with feeling.

 

I have no idea if any of that was a problem for Vargas, but I guarantee you, that's what I would take away from the experience.  And I think it would be good for me.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I don't have any idea what a particular player might learn in a 3-week AAA assignment after being in the bigs for almost a year.  But I bet this is what I would learn/remember:

 

- after being in the majors, the minors really suck

- I like flying better than bus rides

- I will do whatever it takes to get back

- if I get back, I will do whatever it takes to stay

- I will do what my coaches tell me.  Joyfully, with feeling.

 

I have no idea if any of that was a problem for Vargas, but I guarantee you, that's what I would take away from the experience.  And I think it would be good for me.

 

This I can get behind completely.

[Squirrel]

 

I very much appreciate your consistency in viewpoint despite the move, but you're sort of alone in that.  Most people that were defending the Vargas demotion have flipped their position along with the transaction.  As if some magical light-switch got flipped that made their reasoning consistent.

 

That's a bit hard to swallow.

I don't think they flipped their viewpoint. I think there are those who thought Vargas should go down, and agreed with (not defended) the transaction at the time, but feel it was time to come back. Whether or not he 'learned' anything during that time, well, not sure about that, but we'll hopefully see him mash now that he's up.

[drjim]

 

I'd bet we hear talk of an extension soon......

 

I'd be surprised if there is an in-season extension for many reasons. Hunter on the other hand.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Hopefully we get to Burdi in the next few months.  Last 10 appearances, 16.1 IP, 2.20 ERA, 1.05 WHIP, 17k, only 4 BB

That's an improvement on Burdi's rough start, and the control is encouraging, but 8.3 H/9 and 9.4 K/9 at AA do not seem like "fast track" kind of numbers.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

If he continues to pitch well we get good pitching for a year and we can offer him arbitration.  He will likely fetch a 2-3 year deal so we would receive a pick. That is probably the best case. 

Remember, arbitration no longer applies to free agents.  It would have to be a qualifying offer, which will probably be around $16 million for 1 year.  That's a little steep for Pelfrey.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Whether or not he 'learned' anything during that time, well, not sure about that, but we'll hopefully see him mash now that he's up.

 

That's the part the ruffles my feathers a little bit.  The notion that it's the perfect moment now that he's learned to be better.

 

I'm not sure how much anyone learns in 60 PAs.

[Squirrel]

 

That's the part the ruffles my feathers a little bit.  The notion that it's the perfect moment now that he's learned to be better.

 

I'm not sure how much anyone learns in 60 PAs.

Yeah, I'm not so sure it was a 'learning' trip … but not sure what he was specifically told as to why he was sent down. But I like big dog's comment above. Maybe it was to give him a little more drive and perspective? (Yeah, don't debate that one … it's a no-win to go down that road.) Honestly, I was a little 50-50 on the demotion, but am glad he's back up and I'll let it roll from here.

[tobi0040]

 

Remember, arbitration no longer applies to free agents.  It would have to be a qualifying offer, which will probably be around $16 million for 1 year.  That's a little steep for Pelfrey.

 

Yeah...that is too much.  The only benefit would be hurting his value in free agency.  He is a Boras client. So that would be kind of cool.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Yeah, if the Twins extend a QO to Pelfrey, he'd probably want to take it, right? It would depress his market in free agency, and he's probably not getting a better annual offer in the first place.

 

He might be looking for a multi-year deal closer to $10 Mil. per season, assuming he stays on this course for the whole year (which would be quite impressive, come to think of it). I suppose Pelfrey could reject the QO in search of a longer deal for more total $$, but less per year than the QO would be.

 

Either way, I think getting Vargas back up is a good thing for the Twins, Sending Santana down is a good thing for the Twins, and hopefully there will be some movement in the bullpen in the next week as well.

 

With Vargas up and Santana in AAA, my guess is that Molitor would really appreciate another bench player to come up in case they need another defender somewhere. Escobar is going to be busy at SS, and Nuñez is going to be backing up the infielders (and shouldn't be in the OF anyway), so Molly might ask for an outfielder...  

 

What's the latest on Schafer? Any news?

[Shane Wahl]

Vargas back with still 13 thousand pitchers, so I imagine there is a Schafer-Arcia war for the last spot soon. I would give it to Arcia. That should be self-explanatory.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I don't have any idea what a particular player might learn in a 3-week AAA assignment after being in the bigs for almost a year.  But I bet this is what I would learn/remember:

 

- after being in the majors, the minors really suck

- I like flying better than bus rides

- I will do whatever it takes to get back

- if I get back, I will do whatever it takes to stay

- I will do what my coaches tell me.  Joyfully, with feeling.

 

I have no idea if any of that was a problem for Vargas, but I guarantee you, that's what I would take away from the experience.  And I think it would be good for me.

FWIW, AAA players generally fly rather than bus.  The leagues are much larger geographically.

 

And I don't think a player with 5 years minor league experience and 3 months MLB experience needs another 3 weeks in AAA to remember what the minor leagues are like.

[Blackjack]

 

I don't have any idea what a particular player might learn in a 3-week AAA assignment after being in the bigs for almost a year.  But I bet this is what I would learn/remember:

 

- after being in the majors, the minors really suck

- I like flying better than bus rides

- I will do whatever it takes to get back

- if I get back, I will do whatever it takes to stay

- I will do what my coaches tell me.  Joyfully, with feeling.

 

I have no idea if any of that was a problem for Vargas, but I guarantee you, that's what I would take away from the experience.  And I think it would be good for me.

Agreed 100%!!! It didn't hurt Vargas or the Twins to send him down for a few weeks. And if he comes back with a renewed determination to do whatever it takes to stay -- meaning be productive - the short stint in the minors will help the Twins in the long run.

[jorgenswest]

 

Vargas back with still 13 thousand pitchers, so I imagine there is a Schafer-Arcia war for the last spot soon. I would give it to Arcia. That should be self-explanatory.

I might give it to Buxton

[MileHighTwinsFan]

So no one is a wee bit nervous about Nunez as the backup? Seems like this can't be long term plan. Either Santana straightens things out in short order or another move is on the horizon. Possibly a call-up for Bernier or a trade.

[drjim]

 

So no one is a wee bit nervous about Nunez as the backup? Seems like this can't be long term plan. Either straightens things out in short order or another move is on the horizon. Possibly a call-up for Bernier or a trade.

 

I'm more nervous about the starter than the backup.

[nicksaviking]

 

I'd bet we hear talk of an extension soon......

 

I hope not.  It would make no sense and most people don't believe his success is sustainable.

 

However they doubled down on him after 2013 for unknown reasons, and certainly there will be some in the front office that are thinking they are now vidicated with the signing and re-signing.  I could see where the feeling of vinidcation may cause someone to revisit their past mistakes.

 

On the other hand, with is current success, Pelfrey may think he can find a long-term deal on the open market and wouldn't even talk a mid-season extension.  No way do the Twins give out another long-term deal to a 30+ year-old pitcher, do they?

 

Seriously, do they? Please say they wouldn't.

[Willihammer]

Pelfrey looked as good as I've ever seen him yesterday. He was dealing. 93-96 with the fastball and good changeup command, everyone was off balance. Kinda reminded me of Pavano's good years with the Twins. If I had any confidence that he might log as many innings as Pavano did, an extension would seem like a better idea. But I doubt anyone believes he'll be healthy/effective for 2-3 years after the past 3 seasons with him. A QO might be an option though.

[tobi0040]

 

I hope not.  It would make no sense and most people don't believe his success is sustainable.

 

However they doubled down on him after 2013 for unknown reasons, and certainly there will be some in the front office that are thinking they are now vidicated with the signing and re-signing.  I could see where the feeling of vinidcation may cause someone to revisit their past mistakes.

 

On the other hand, with is current success, Pelfrey may think he can find a long-term deal on the open market and wouldn't even talk a mid-season extension.  No way do the Twins give out another long-term deal to a 30+ year-old pitcher, do they?

 

Seriously, do they? Please say they wouldn't.

 

The only thing stopping TR from extending this man is numbers.  Nolasco and Ervin are under contract.  May, Gibson, and Milone are cheap.  Berrios is close and they aren't giving up on Meyer starting.  Given that I think even TR may pass. 

 

Said another way, the only thing preventing TR from giving Pelfrey a bad contract are the two he has already given out.

 

[drjim]

 

I hope not.  It would make no sense and most people don't believe his success is sustainable.

 

However they doubled down on him after 2013 for unknown reasons, and certainly there will be some in the front office that are thinking they are now vidicated with the signing and re-signing.  I could see where the feeling of vinidcation may cause someone to revisit their past mistakes.

 

On the other hand, with is current success, Pelfrey may think he can find a long-term deal on the open market and wouldn't even talk a mid-season extension.  No way do the Twins give out another long-term deal to a 30+ year-old pitcher, do they?

 

Seriously, do they? Please say they wouldn't.

 

Don't underestimate the genius of signing Pelfrey to multiple contracts for 3 years to make sure they see some results!

 

But to answer your question, I don't think they sign an extension mid-season, mostly because Pelfrey and his camp wouldn't give them a friendly one.

[John Bonnes]

 

The Twins have quite a few potential job openings for hitters, and nobody who's hitting like they're particularly excited about applying for one.

 

Couldn't agree more. Even Rosario, who is hitting, scares the hell out of me with his strikeout/walk ratio right now. 

 

This year has been really fun so far, but it's not going to be if some of the youth in this lineup doesn't get on track. I'd love for Vargas to be the first of those guys. 

 

(Or, alternately, the Twins don't make some trades to bring in some productive players and send a bunch of the youth back down. Which would seem like a fairly pyrrhic victory for this organization, given their belief in developing minor league talent and the reality of upcoming years.)

[USAFChief]

Pelfrey pitching like he has, for the entire year, and a qualifying offer this offseason, seems like the best possible outcome to me.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

So no one is a wee bit nervous about Nunez as the backup? Seems like this can't be long term plan. Either Santana straightens things out in short order or another move is on the horizon. Possibly a call-up for Bernier or a trade.

Not really.  The backup infielder just isn't going to play infield much on this team.  Over the season's first two months, despite being in the lineup almost everyday, Escobar himself has started only 1 game at 2B, and only 1 game at 3B that Plouffe didn't also start at 1B.

 

And if Vargas is starting at DH or 1B, there aren't any good pinch-hitting options on this bench either, so Escobar's not likely to come out of a game except for injury (at which point, we could recall Santana or Bernier -- and we've still got an extra pitcher, so we wouldn't even need to DL anybody to do it).

[tobi0040]

 

Pelfrey pitching like he has, for the entire year, and a qualifying offer this offseason, seems like the best possible outcome to me.

 

I don't care much about 16M on a one year deal.  But I do care that he will be our third vet on scholarsip. Immovable objects blocking more promising pitchers.  Now you have Meyer, Milone, May, Gibson, and Berrios going for two spots.

 

The only vet of those three whose talent is top five is Ervin, IMO.  And that is assuming his past was not helped by illegal substances.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I don't care much about 16M on a one year deal.  But I do care that he will be our third vet on scholarsip. Immovable objects blocking more promising pitchers.

Presumably he meant that Pelfrey would decline the qualifying offer.

[tobi0040]

 

Presumably he meant that Pelfrey would decline the qualifying offer.

 

Yeah, seems risky to me.

 

Boras has to basically believe he can get a 3 or 4 year deal to decline 1/16.  Boras has already stuck it to the Twins twice with Pelfrey, I don't want to give him a third opportunity.

[Linus]

 

I don't care much about 16M on a one year deal.  But I do care that he will be our third vet on scholarsip. Immovable objects blocking more promising pitchers.  Now you have Meyer, Milone, May, Gibson, and Berrios going for two spots.

 

The only vet of those three whose talent is top five is Ervin, IMO.  And that is assuming his past was not helped by illegal substances.

Well, the jury is still out on Meyer and Milone; winning teams don't count on unproven commodities.  Berrios could easily be a year away so, anyway I just broke your logjam.