How Long for Pinto?

[Mike Sixel]

It's not like their current catcher is any good on defense, or offense for that matter.....

[SwainZag]

 

It's not like their current catcher is any good on defense, or offense for that matter.....

 

Well their current catcher does lead the team in OPS, is tied for the team lead in HR and is 2nd in slugging and OBP......

[Mike Sixel]

 

Well their current catcher does lead the team in OPS, is tied for the team lead in HR and is 2nd in slugging and OBP......

 

SUPER! They should sign him to another extension!

[Shane Wahl]

Nunez is certainly not part of any future for the Twins. I would like to see Pinto up to replace him. Suzuki is fine for the moment, but that moment might not last as long as it did in 2014.

What is really going on with claims about Pinto's defense? Parker did a good job analyzing this before the season started and it certainly doesn't seem to be the case there there is just something awful about Pinto's defense that makes him not serviceable.

On the other hand, what is with the Twins and some Twins fans around here who don't want "waste" Pinto in a primary bench role? I say load up the roster and have strong bench bats, especially when Schafer or Robinson is starting every game.

All of this said, I do think that there is going to have be some movement (trade movement)  between Arcia-Vargas-Pinto (perhaps even two of them). I would think Vargas is the guy they like the most of the three. Personally, I really like Pinto and have since 2012. I would like to see him up and getting some starts behind the plate now. Suzuki can come in for defense every damn game in the 8th inning if they want.

[Shane Wahl]

Keep in mind that it seems to be true that the only real defensive value Suzuki brings is in "handling the staff." I am not saying that there is no merit to the claim, but I am also not sure A: what the hell it means, B: that isn't overblown, and C: that it isn't just something good to say about catchers who you like personally.

 

 

[DJL44]

Starting April 24 there are 17 games in a row without an off day. My guess is they'll need him at some point in that stretch.

[SwainZag]

 

SUPER! They should sign him to another extension!

 

Haha...I was leaning more towards, if he keeps hitting AND they believe Pinto can handle catching he becomes a trade asset from a team who loses a catcher.  Also....hard to take one of your best performing bats out of the lineup.

[howieramone2]

 

SUPER! They should sign him to another extension!

 

Not unless he makes the All-Star team again.

[Mike Sixel]

188........

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

With articles like this, it might be awhile for Pinto:

 

http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2015/04/21/postgame-twinsights-the-indestructible-kurt-suzuki-just-keeps-ticking/

 

So... Suzuki's foot was numb for three minutes and he stays in the game to ground out three times and fail to block a couple wild pitches and he is heaped with praise for toughness and being a gamer. I agree that Suzuki is tough and hates to come out of a game, but if a player's mobility is severely limited due to injury, don't you replace that player for at least the rest of that game?

 

Herrmann, meanwhile, hasn't played since injuring his hand... So, Is he maybe also injured? Did Suzuki stay in because the backup isn't healthy?

 

Maybe they should have a player in uniform that can catch if Suzuki is not able to?

 

 

[sorney]

 

Well their current catcher does lead the team in OPS, is tied for the team lead in HR and is 2nd in slugging and OBP......

Tallest short dude?!?!

[Brock Beauchamp]

That's an excellent point. If Suzuki is dinged up, he should be out of the game and resting. If Herrmann is also injured to the point where you're reluctant to pull Suzuki from the game, then it's time to consider a call-up.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

So... Suzuki's foot was numb for three minutes and he stays in the game to ground out three times and fail to block a couple wild pitches and he is heaped with praise for toughness and being a gamer.

This is why I suspect Pinto staying in AAA isn't necessarily a direct product of an evaluation of his abilities.  I think it's largely a deference to a veteran that they like to determine his own playing time.

[Mike Sixel]

From Grantland .........

The team’s catching has been similarly awful. Last year, Minnesota catchers were collectively 28 runs worse than average, and most of that falls at the feet of Kurt Suzuki. While the 31-year-old has never carried a particularly bad defensive reputation during his nine-year major league career and even made the All-Star team in 2014, advanced metrics loathe his defense. Over the past four seasons, Suzuki combined to cost his team 46 runs more than the average MLB catcher and ranked 25th, 30th, 28th, and 34th in the majors in DRS over that period. Somehow, those numbers might actually underestimate his negative defensive value: Last year, Suzuki was also 20 runs worse than the average catcher by advanced pitch-framing metrics, the fourth-worst mark for any backstop. With another year on Suzuki’s contract, in addition to a $6 million player option for 2017, the Twins have someone worth shopping in the near future — if they can find another club that doesn’t care about behind-the-plate defense.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Could it be that the Twins did not get what they felt was a fair offer for Suzuki before they extended him because his defensive value makes him undesirable to other teams?  

Did they bid against themselves in signing him in the first place and then again when they extended his contract?

 

Suzuki had a great offensive season last year, and I don't want to diminish his contribution to the team. I just wish that Pinto could share some at bats along with Kurt. If Suzuki's defense is as detrimental the numbers seem to point to - could Pinto really be that much worse?

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

From Grantland .........

 

With another year on Suzuki’s contract, in addition to a $6 million player option for 2017

It's a vesting option, not a player option.  (Vests with 485 PA in 2016.)

 

Grantland had me worried there for a second!

[jimmer]

The

 

Could it be that the Twins did not get what they felt was a fair offer for Suzuki before they extended him because his defensive value makes him undesirable to other teams?  

Did they bid against themselves in signing him in the first place and then again when they extended his contract?

 

Suzuki had a great offensive season last year, and I don't want to diminish his contribution to the team. I just wish that Pinto could share some at bats along with Kurt. If Suzuki's defense is as detrimental the numbers seem to point to - could Pinto really be that much worse?

If they didn't get whatever a fair offer would be for Suzuki, they could have just let him go as a FA.  They didn't have to re-sign him. I imagine they didn't get much of an offer for him, if at all, because his offensive season wasn't likely to be repeated and his defense is just bad.

 

I don''t know whether we can say that Suzuki had a 'great offensive season' last year.  It was pretty good most of the year and fell off a cliff the last two months. It was great for him, that's for sure.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

 

The

 

If they didn't get whatever a fair offer would be for Suzuki, they could have just let him go as a FA.  They didn't have to re-sign him. I imagine they didn't get much of an offer for him, if at all, because his offensive season wasn't likely to be repeated and his defense is just bad.

 

I don''t know whether we can say that Suzuki had a 'great offensive season' last year.  It was pretty good most of the year and fell off a cliff the last two months. It was great for him, that's for sure.

 

It was great for a catcher - and one of the better offensive seasons for the team...

[jimmer]

 

It was great for a catcher - and one of the better offensive seasons for the team...

We just have way different ideas of what is great for a catcher that's all. Posey, Lucroy, Mesoraco, Martin, Gomez.  They had great seasons for catchers last year. Mauer when he was catching had great seasons.  

 

Just a difference of opinion is all.

[jokin]

 

 

Did they bid against themselves in signing him in the first place and then again when they extended his contract?

 

 

 

And it wouldn't be the first time, the Twins seem to enjoy just this scenario.... Capps (ext.), Burton, Pelfrey, and of course, Ryan Doumit.

[ashbury]

 

http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2015/04/21/postgame-twinsights-the-indestructible-kurt-suzuki-just-keeps-ticking/

He hasn’t come out of a game at any level, he says, since getting hit in the cup with a foul tip in a Triple-A game at Colorado Springs in 2007.

An amazing statistic for anyone who dons the tools of ignorance, I would think.

[Willihammer]

Yeah Suzuki kinda renders the whole "emergency backup" question moot.

[twinsfaninsaudi]

It seems like Pinto might be the best hitter in the organization at the moment. It's crazy that two years in a row they can't manage to get him in the lineup.

[howieramone2]

 

And it wouldn't be the first time, the Twins seem to enjoy just this scenario.... Capps (ext.), Burton, Pelfrey, and of course, Ryan Doumit.

 

Link?

[ashbury]

Yeah Suzuki kinda renders the whole "emergency backup" question moot.

Yeah, but when an injury finally knocks him out, they'll have to create a 600-day disabled list just for him.

[jokin]

 

Link?

To what?  Their signing and re-signing dates?

[laloesch]

 

It seems like Pinto might be the best hitter in the organization at the moment. It's crazy that two years in a row they can't manage to get him in the lineup.

 

Agreed.  As a hitter he has decent power and OBP, although he has struggled with overall batting average.  Defensively I think his deficiencies are VASTLY overblown.  This kid was called up to catch one of the worst major league staff in all of baseball two years running.  It's no wonder he has had trouble framing, blocking and throwing out runners when all you have to work with is wild pitches and erratic starters.  Garbage is most appropriate.  I still believe he has way more upside than Chris Herrmann who is absolutely brutal in the batters box.  I also think he could end up being better than Kurt Suzuki who is nothing special in his own light despite the all-star selection last season.

 

If Vargas continues to struggle i'd like to see Ryan call up Pinto and send Kenny down to AAA.  Pinto could DH primarily and catch the odd game here and there.

[Willihammer]

If I'm Pinto and I'm being kept in the minor leagues for a 10th year to "get everyday at-bats" or "work on defense" then I'm going to get the hell out of dodger after this season. There is nothing for him here, the Twins has proven that over and over.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Someone in the game thread mentioned how it seemed Suzuki was suddenly allowing more pitches to get past him. Maybe his fluke foot injury two nights ago was affecting him more than he let on. In that case he should get a few days off. If I recall, the Boyer wild pitch was just a straight fastball over the plate but in the dirt that he didn't even block or get his mitt on and it hit the umpires foot.

 

Also, Twins pitchers have struck out only 2 batters the last 2 games. Really, Twins?

 

Right now would be the perfect time to call up Pinto.

[Jham]

I like Suzuki and think he has some value.  I think he brings enough to the table to be a starting catcher, but probably is better suited toward splitting time at this point of his career.  

 

Obviously, we've seen all the "wild pitches" this year, many of which a better defensive catcher may have saved.  I am really starting to wonder about Kurt's ability to call a good game.  He seems to call for a lot of fastballs on the outside corner.  Obviously, that's a good pitch, but after 5 in a row, it becomes a lot more hittable.  Yesterday, with runners at second and third, no one out, up two, with the number eight hitter at the plate.  We needed a strikeout or at least a ground ball to the left side to prevent the tying run from advancing to third.  Instead, Suzuki called for fastball after fastball on the outside corner, until the batter timed it up and just shot one to Dozier, one run in, the other to third.  He came in to tie the game on a sac fly.  Royals later take the lead and win.  Pinto could have done that I'm pretty sure.

 

Pinto needs at bats when he comes up, and not at the expense of Suzuki.  We have bigger problems than Zuk right now.  Arcia's swing is broken, and Vargas needs some polishing.  I'd send down Vargas as he hasn't faced AAA.  Pinto can DH and spell Zuk without disrupting other positions.