TRYING HARD to find that SILVER LINING

[JB_Iowa]

So, is Ron Gardenhire just shaking his head .... or is there a bit of secret enjoyment?

[jorgenswest]

It is hard to look at the stats over the last two years and conclude he is close to being an MLB player.

Hicks is absolutely a major league platoon/4th OF/late inning defense on a corner. If the Twins don't want to give him that role, some team will give him that role. He is better option than Arcia, Schafer and Robinson against lefties today based on the stats. Mix in defense, he is probably a better option in RF also.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1.  I don't know what's going on with Arcia.  Not a great spring training by any means (.269 OBP, .692 OPS, 13 Ks, 0 BBs, fielding that seemed to range between indifferent and bad).  He needs to do something well, whether it's getting on base, slugging, or fielding.  Anything.   

 

2.  I wouldn't restrict the outfield conversation to CF, seeing as how we had Nunez playing on roller skates out there yesterday again.  Just befuddling.

 

3.  Nick Burdi has 6 walks in his first 1 2/3 innings this year.  I don't think his problem is that he was blocked by older relievers.  Let's see if he can maybe dominate AA for a month or so before we toss him into the bigs.  I bet he can, but it would be good to actually see it happen rather than assume he could and move him up first.

 

So here's my silver lining- at least a couple of issues are sorting themselves out quickly.  The outfield is even worse than we thought, so I don't see how we can just ride it out.  Something will have to happen, and right now just about anything is better than status quo.  

 

And the bullpen has such clear problems that again, I don't think it will be a long wait before things change.  

 

And May is up.  That is good.

its not worse than all of us thought. Some of us have been banging this drum for years.

 

I think Arcia getting moved to left field has had a negative impact on his fielding and hitting, and Hunter is every bit as bad as expected too

[Kwak]

All of you posters who were screaming that Hicks needed to be sent down to Rochester--raise your hands.  I sure hope that there isn't anyone of that group posting today that Hicks should be with the Twins in any capacity--Hicks can be in two places.

[Halsey Hall]

Hicks is better off in Rochester.  At least he can have some fun there and enjoy some wins.  If they called him up now he'd probably refuse. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

All of you posters who were screaming that Hicks needed to be sent down to Rochester--raise your hands.  I sure hope that there isn't anyone of that group posting today that Hicks should be with the Twins in any capacity--Hicks can be in two places.

i did (raises hand). I think Hicks needs some more gestation time. It's only been a week. dont commit to a third mistake. Acquire a cf via trade

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

After today the only silver lining I saw was Trevor May. I think Hunter is just lining his pockets with silver, however. He would make a great DH

[Dr. Evil]

This was all pretty predictable. Hope we lose enough to change philosophies. I can't see us winning much.

[glunn]

I think that there are many potential silver linings --

 

Santana getting a chance at SS -- despite today's performance

 

Dozier maybe getting better

 

Arcia having a chance to get better

 

Gibson maybe becoming a reliable #2

 

May possibly establishing himself as a reliable #3

 

Hicks getting at least one more chance, with some chance of success

 

Mayer, Berrios, Sano and Buxton possibly coming up

 

Ervin Santana will be rested when he comes back

 

Possible trades of players who don't fit in with the future if they can build some trade value, including Hunter, Pelfrey, and Nolasco.

 

I acknowledge that the silver linings are exceeded by the clouds.  I especially dislike the very poor fielding.  On the other hand, I am hopeful that Molitor will make players work hard to improve their fielding.  I think that the keys to improving fielding are desire, practice and concentration and I hope that Molitor makes this a priority.

[Riverbrian]

 

I think that there are many potential silver linings --

 

Santana getting a chance at SS -- despite today's performance

 

Dozier maybe getting better

 

Arcia having a chance to get better

 

Gibson maybe becoming a reliable #2

 

May possibly establishing himself as a reliable #3

 

Hicks getting at least one more chance, with some chance of success

 

Mayer, Berrios, Sano and Buxton possibly coming up

 

Ervin Santana will be rested when he comes back

 

Possible trades of players who don't fit in with the future if they can build some trade value, including Hunter, Pelfrey, and Nolasco.

 

I acknowledge that the silver linings are exceeded by the clouds.  I especially dislike the very poor fielding.  On the other hand, I am hopeful that Molitor will make players work hard to improve their fielding.  I think that the keys to improving fielding are desire, practice and concentration and I hope that Molitor makes this a priority.

 

Thanks for that Glunn. Pointing out these things helps!!!

 

It didn't work for me... but thats ok.

 

I appreciate the effort. 

[Halsey Hall]

A Silver Lining for me is reading this forum first, then going to the Minor League forum and reading some good news. 

[chopper0080]

So, this is the Twins organization essentially saying that the fans have nothing better to do, and they have enough corporate seats to keep the stadium full despite the quality of the product as long as they do a few small things to generate irrational hope.

 

The first was the Mauer extension.  The arguements can go back and forth on his value, but for a team that is unwilling to spend to compete with other teams, it was a crippling contract.  No player in MLB can have the impact needed for a player that takes up that much of the team's spending.  But, the Twins did it to give their fans something to come to the ballpark for. 

 

Next, they sold the idea of rebuilding the farm system knowing that they would be able to save in terms of spending for a couple years with the promise of by building a prospect base.

 

Then they sold Buxton and Sano as the future of the team despite both being in A ball at the time.  Fans started to generate time frames, and multi year plans in regards to one of the most uncertain development processes in professional sports.  Top prospects fail all the time, but the Twins sold the idea that these guys were can't miss, and were going to immediate stars.

 

This offseason they still sold that, but also sold that the fans deserve a better on field product, and then still gave them this absoluet crap product on the field.  In the year where Terry Ryan said he thought we could compete, we may end up with the worst record in baseball.  You can't tell me Terry Ryan isn't smart enough to know what he is putting on the field.  He is just banking that the fans aren't which is what upsets me the most.

[tobi0040]

 

 

This offseason they still sold that, but also sold that the fans deserve a better on field product, and then still gave them this absoluet crap product on the field.  In the year where Terry Ryan said he thought we could compete, we may end up with the worst record in baseball.  You can't tell me Terry Ryan isn't smart enough to know what he is putting on the field.  He is just banking that the fans aren't which is what upsets me the most.

 

I think most teams over the last five years have bought into defense being a huge factor in roster decisions.  The Royals are a case and point.   The days of the huge, overweight 35 year old slugging corner outfield are about over.  But Terry Ryan has not bought in.  So I don't know that he thought this was an issue.

 

Cuddyer, Kubel, Delmon Young, Willingham, Arcia, a 39 year old Hunter.  We have gone bat over glove here for a very, very long time.

[chopper0080]

 

I think most teams over the last five years have bought into defense being a huge factor in roster decisions.  The Royals are a case and point.   The days of the huge, overweight 35 year old slugging corner outfield are about over.  But Terry Ryan has not bought in.  So I don't know that he thought this was an issue.

 

Cuddyer, Kubel, Delmon Young, Willingham, Arcia, a 39 year old Hunter.  We have gone bat over glove here for a very, very long time.

 

You could be right, but I give Terry Ryan the credit of being a very smart baseball man.  He was one of the early champions of pitching and defense winning baseball games.  I have a tough time believing he suddenly has forgotten this in a time where defense and pitching are at an all time high.  The truth is, as defense has become more important, it has also become tougher and more costly to acquire.  Arcia is cheap.  Hunter was a marketing ploy.  Willingham was cheap.  Robinson and Shafer are cheap but look the part despite being bad defensively.

[Mike Sixel]

Agreed, Ryan is really smart about baseball.....

[tobi0040]

 

You could be right, but I give Terry Ryan the credit of being a very smart baseball man.  He was one of the early champions of pitching and defense winning baseball games.  I have a tough time believing he suddenly has forgotten this in a time where defense and pitching are at an all time high.  The truth is, as defense has become more important, it has also become tougher and more costly to acquire.  Arcia is cheap.  Hunter was a marketing ploy.  Willingham was cheap.  Robinson and Shafer are cheap but look the part despite being bad defensively.

 

Looking at a FA tracker, Kubel and Cuddy were the only OF I could find that signed in 2011 for more annually than Willingham.

 

 

 

Virtually everyone else would have been a better OF defender than Josh.  He was a 30+ year old converted catcher that has aged in dog years, with a bad back.

 

 

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/freeagents/_/year/2011

[chopper0080]

 

Looking at a FA tracker, Kubel and Cuddy were the only OF I could find that signed in 2011 for more annually than Willingham.

 

 

 

Virtually everyone else would have been a better OF defender than Josh.  He was a 30+ year old converted catcher that has aged in dog years, with a bad back.

 

 

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/freeagents/_/year/2011

 

But we still had Span and Revere in the organization, so athletic OFs were still flush and cheap.

[SwainZag]

 

So, this is the Twins organization essentially saying that the fans have nothing better to do, and they have enough corporate seats to keep the stadium full despite the quality of the product as long as they do a few small things to generate irrational hope.

 

The first was the Mauer extension.  The arguements can go back and forth on his value, but for a team that is unwilling to spend to compete with other teams, it was a crippling contract.  No player in MLB can have the impact needed for a player that takes up that much of the team's spending.  But, the Twins did it to give their fans something to come to the ballpark for. 

 

Next, they sold the idea of rebuilding the farm system knowing that they would be able to save in terms of spending for a couple years with the promise of by building a prospect base.

 

Then they sold Buxton and Sano as the future of the team despite both being in A ball at the time.  Fans started to generate time frames, and multi year plans in regards to one of the most uncertain development processes in professional sports.  Top prospects fail all the time, but the Twins sold the idea that these guys were can't miss, and were going to immediate stars.

 

This offseason they still sold that, but also sold that the fans deserve a better on field product, and then still gave them this absoluet crap product on the field.  In the year where Terry Ryan said he thought we could compete, we may end up with the worst record in baseball.  You can't tell me Terry Ryan isn't smart enough to know what he is putting on the field.  He is just banking that the fans aren't which is what upsets me the most.

 

1.  Still going on about extending Mauer?  When did this cripple the team?  Injuries 2 years later and a lack of depth in the high minor leagues from poor drafting crippled this team.  

 

2.  The franchise was at a point where there really were no other options than to rebuild.  You can look at as the team choosing to be thrifty, but what else were they suppose to do?  Sign huge free agent contracts every year?  Did you really except a team with so many holes to throw huge money at players? They have built a farm system among the best in baseball now.  If that was their plan, it seems to be doing quite well.

 

3.  The Twins did nothing to "sell" Buxton and Sano as the future of the team.  Being ranked in the Top 5 of every prospect report on the planet did this.  I would like you to show me direct statements from the Twins about these two being "can't miss" and "immediate stars."

 

4.  I won't sugarcoat it say that his team hasn't been crappy thus far.  We are also less than 5% of the way into the season. If this roster looks the same in 6 weeks and they are losing at the same rate we can talk ending with the worst records.  I think anyone believes that Terry Ryan is trying to fool fans and thinks for himself that the current 25 man roster is good team is joking with themselves.  He knows whats out there.  

 

You can also blame pitching and defense all you want, the fact is everyone on the offense is off to a slow start.  Joe is the only regular hitting above .241.  Score 16 runs in 7 games, I don't care how good your pitching and/or defense is you aren't winning many games. 

[chopper0080]

 

1.  Still going on about extending Mauer?  When did this cripple the team?  Injuries 2 years later and a lack of depth in the high minor leagues from poor drafting crippled this team.  

 

2.  The franchise was at a point where there really were no other options than to rebuild.  You can look at as the team choosing to be thrifty, but what else were they suppose to do?  Sign huge free agent contracts every year?  Did you really except a team with so many holes to throw huge money at players? They have built a farm system among the best in baseball now.  If that was their plan, it seems to be doing quite well.

 

3.  The Twins did nothing to "sell" Buxton and Sano as the future of the team.  Being ranked in the Top 5 of every prospect report on the planet did this.  I would like you to show me direct statements from the Twins about these two being "can't miss" and "immediate stars."

 

4.  I won't sugarcoat it say that his team hasn't been crappy thus far.  We are also less than 5% of the way into the season. If this roster looks the same in 6 weeks and they are losing at the same rate we can talk ending with the worst records.  I think anyone believes that Terry Ryan is trying to fool fans and thinks for himself that the current 25 man roster is good team is joking with themselves.  He knows whats out there.  

 

You can also blame pitching and defense all you want, the fact is everyone on the offense is off to a slow start.  Joe is the only regular hitting above .241.  Score 16 runs in 7 games, I don't care how good your pitching and/or defense is you aren't winning many games. 

1-Joe Mauer is relevent every time the Twins talk about payroll and payroll limitations.  When they set a spending cap for themselves which limits their ability to sign depth and above average MLB players, Mauer's contract plays into that.  That is a fact.

 

2-I agree, the team needed to rebuild, but why haven't they done it?  Rebuilding doesn't mean 4 years in you are worse than when you started.  I expect a rebuilding team to sign good players, which they haven't.  If they are going the prospect route then I expect them to flip those players for more prospects.  Also, if you are going the prospect route, those prospects better work out or you should be fired.  You can't tank a franchise for four years, not get any results, and then be excused.  Regardless of your approach, you have to recognize the uncertainty of prospects, and continue to add quality MLB players while those prospects develop.

 

3-You honestly believe that Twins haven't pushed Buxton and Sano as the future of this franchise?  You don't believe we haven't added a legitimate MLB CF in two years because of Buxton?  You don't believe the Twins have chosen to hold down their self appointed payroll budget in order to wait for their top prospects to be ready?  If not, then you are essentially stating that the Twins are awful because they want to be awful rather than because they are waiting for the Sano/Buxton prospect train to roll in.

 

4-If Ryan isn't trying to fool fans than why did he claim this was a roster that could compete?  He is either incompetent or putting forth a false narrative, you tell me which it is.  Also, if we have better players available, why wouldn't they break camp with us?  Why wait 6 weeks from now?  What is that telling your fans?

 

I'm never just blamed the pitching and defense.  You just put those words in.  I said that we are outmatched at almost every position on the field, every game we play.  I said I blame this organization for not having one single thing they can count on.  Their starting pitching is bad.  Relief pitching is bad.  defense is bad.  Offense is bad.  There is not one single aspect of baseball that this roster does well.