Berardino: "No contact" between Twins & Maddon

[brvama]

 

By contrast, for the one team with a manager opening, Ryan has virtually no reason for NOT being impressed by Maddon's abilities- and for all intents and purposes, he's even publicly admitted that Maddon is a huge talent.

Acknowledging that someone is talented is not the same as acknowledging that individual is right for this job.

We don't know but there may very well be reasons Ryan might feel this way.

 

The agent also said Maddon would welcome an inquiry from the Twins.

And why is it the Twins are wrong here? Maddon's agent reached out to other organizations and not the Twins that had an opening. To me the say volumes about his desire to come to the Twins. Also, with the recent rumors of he taking the Cubs job, I am thinking all this was a smoke screen and it was there play all along to hook up with the Cubs. It fits some of his (or agent's) comments about working with a large payroll club and the challenge of the NL game. I would not be surprised if there was some tampering involved in this. Reason, how can any agent not know his clients contract? If that is true, the agent is failing his responsibilities.

[USAFChief]

,

If the agent contacted 4-5 teams and the agent says there was no contact with the Twins, it would seem that Maddon or the agent are not interested in the Twins.

You're as disappointed at that as me, I take it.

[twinssouth]

Watching 7 th game of WS and reading TD, life is Grand! This Cubs thing is happening way to fast. If this is true, do I smell a hint of tampering. Side note, Royals just chased Hudson, GO ROYALS.

Maddon and his Agent knew the Twins had an opening but yet didn't call, instead calling 4 or 5 other teams. Seems to me to be a big slap in the face to the Twins. I think the Twins felt this was a slap to the face also and would explain why TR didnt call him I'm beginning to think its time to move on.

2 to 2 3rd, new ball game

[Linus]

I would posit that the "everyone on this board" have good reasons and reams of evidence to be impressed by Maddon- and can readily see how his talents easily translate to the Twins situation- and based on the huge interest from multiple clubs' GMs around the league- willing to put their money where their mouths are- -even with ZERO job openings confirms those good reasons held by the TD board.

 

By contrast, for the one team with a manager opening, Ryan has virtually no reason for NOT being impressed by Maddon's abilities- and for all intents and purposes, he's even publicly admitted that Maddon is a huge talent.

Well if my opinion doesn't resonate consider Reusse ' blog post. When they had good pitching Maddon's record was the same as the guy we just fired. The Maddon love is overblown.

[jokin]

I disagree.  Holding an interview under false pretenses to manage perceptions is extremely unprofessional.

 

Nonsense. Who said anything about false pretenses?  There are 1000s of sit-down, no-specific-agenda meetings that happen each week that result in $1,000,000  returns, this is extremely professional- it's the nature of the beast.

 

Mark Cuban has the right idea about this:

 

 

"Sweat equity is the most valuable equity there is. Know your business and everyone in your industry better than anyone else in the world."                                                                                                                                                

“Wherever I see people doing something the way it’s always been done, the way it’s ‘supposed’ to be done, following the same old trends, well, that’s just a big red flag to me to go look somewhere else.”                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      

 “Every no gets me closer to a yes.”

[DocBauer]

WAY too many point across the board on both sides of the issue to paste them all, or comment directly. Just some points and thoughts.

 

1) Not saying Maddon is being dishonest, but still find it odd he didn't know ahead of time about the out in his contract. I also find it puzzling just how fast this whole Cubs situation has come to pass. I'm not accusing anyone of tampering, but it sure sounds like some sort of back room conversations between someone.

 

2) Not all of the onus should be placed on the Twins here. If they are the only team with an opening, why in the name of Babe Ruth wouldn't Maddon's team at least make a call themselves? "Hello, Twins? Are you interested in talking? We have a guy for your position you might be interested in."

 

3) Not blasting anyone's integrity, but a couple reports made, not always with a name attached, stating something as FACT...that the Twins never even made a phone call of any sort...is a bit dubious to me.

 

4) Isn't it possible the Twins and Maddon's camp already knew it wasn't a match from the begining from previous knowledge?

 

5) Could the Twins already have a list of 2-3 candidates that they have done due diligence on, really like, and with all due respect to Maddon, just not see him as a fit for the future direction of the team?

 

I could go on and on. I'm not absolving Ryan from doing his job in proper fashion. Not am I dismissing Maddon as a quality manager. The history of sport is littered with coaches/managers with experience who were brought on to re-make a team. Like FA players, some had a real impact, and some didn't.

 

I think tremendous angst for Twins management being incompetent because they supposedly didn't make a phone call to inquire about a manager candidate who, according to most opinions here, wouldn't want to come to Minnesota anyway, is a bit misconstrued. Are we so desperate for change and new news that all we can do is fabricate reasons to dislike the process and those leading it?

 

Just asking.

 

A week ago, most everyone was secure to the lengths of the Twins search.

[jokin]

Well if my opinion doesn't resonate consider Reusse ' blog post. When they had good pitching Maddon's record was the same as the guy we just fired. The Maddon love is overblown.

 

Since I have virtually no respect for Reusse's version of "journalism"-

 

1) He's always demonstrated huge blind spots tin terms of balance as he tries to fit a story to his preconceived notions and/or intentions, and...

 

2) He's a genius at sensing when to lob a grenade into a story for maximum effect-

 

I will have to pass on giving much consideration to his opinion on Maddon,  I'll go with where the money goes, and where more professional journalists can offer more neutral assessments of Maddon's managerial acumen.

[jokin]

 

A week ago, most everyone was secure to the lengths of the Twins search.

 

And a week ago, Maddon wasn't yet available.

[Linus]

Since I have virtually no respect for Reusse's version of "journalism"-

 

1) He's always demonstrated huge blind spots tin terms of balance as he tries to fit a story to his preconceived notions and/or intentions, and...

 

2) He's a genius at sensing when to lob a grenade into a story for maximum effect-

 

I will have to pass on giving much consideration to his opinion on Maddon, I'll go with where the money goes, and where more professional journalists can offer more neutral assessments of Maddon's managerial acumen.

Well in this case he laid out some very straight forward observations about how critical pitching is in the overall record of a given manager, which is far less subjective to most of the "facts" posted here and elsewhere. Go ahead and ignore it and you are the one fitting facts to the story. Sorry.

[TwinsCD]

Haven't bothered to read all of the posts in this thread so my opinion may match some already stated...

 

I will be highly disappointed if the Twins didn't at least reach out and inquire about Maddon's interest.  Yeah, his price tag may be way out of their territory and if so, that's fine.  I can live with that.  But at least come out and tell the public that you were interested in the guy but he costs too much.  To not do so sends a horrible message to the fans.

 

And I don't think it's on Maddon or his representation to call anyone about a job.  If he or his people haven't called the Twins yet, then it can be assumed that he didn't leave the Rays to campaign for our job.  He's in love with Chicago and he'll likely get the Cubs job because everything about that job fits him and his personality (and his price tag).  But if the Cubs gig falls through, then Mattingly's seat will be scorching hot in LA.

[big dog]

The agent also said Maddon would welcome an inquiry from the Twins.

What else would an agent say? Don't call we're not answering?

[jokin]

What else would an agent say? Don't call we're not answering?

 

Generally, since an agent represents multiple people and is a professional, he acts professionally and treats every club with equal respect, and in that regard, is more than willing to entertain the prospect of an interview... and as I've stated before- it's still a win-win, even if a team isn't first on your list, meeting with said team can only help your leverage with other teams.

[jokin]

At this point with the news that he is already the Cubs manager before the job is even available it would seem the Twins had zero shot and probably already knew it.  I don't think Maddon opted out without some at least off the record plans in motion.

 

And still, it's reported that at least 15 other clubs DID bother to make the phone call.  Did Ryan know something no one else apparently knew?   It seems more like what I surmised from the beginning, Ryan just has no interest or wherewithal in playing the game at this level.

[one_eyed_jack]

LEN says the Twins did reach out to Maddon.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/280875292.html

[jokin]

Haven't bothered to read all of the posts in this thread so my opinion may match some already stated...

 

I will be highly disappointed if the Twins didn't at least reach out and inquire about Maddon's interest.  Yeah, his price tag may be way out of their territory and if so, that's fine.  I can live with that.  But at least come out and tell the public that you were interested in the guy but he costs too much.  To not do so sends a horrible message to the fans.

 

And I don't think it's on Maddon or his representation to call anyone about a job.  If he or his people haven't called the Twins yet, then it can be assumed that he didn't leave the Rays to campaign for our job.  He's in love with Chicago and he'll likely get the Cubs job because everything about that job fits him and his personality (and his price tag).  But if the Cubs gig falls through, then Mattingly's seat will be scorching hot in LA.

 

Pretty fair post, well-stated.

[jokin]

LEN says the Twins did reach out to Maddon.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/280875292.html

 

This line stands out to continue to cast doubt on the TD meme in some circles that the Rays wanted to get rid of Maddon:

 

 

. Tampa Bay tried to sign the two-time AL Mangager of the Year to an extension, but talks fell through and Maddon opted out Friday.

[jokin]

LEN says the Twins did reach out to Maddon.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/280875292.html

 

Credit and kudos to Ryan for doing more due diligence in Arizona- always good to get outside opinions from your colleagues.... although I would be surprised if the people he has reached out to down there didn't tell him he would be crazy not to at least try very hard to get an interview with Maddon. 

[jokin]

LEN says the Twins did reach out to Maddon.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/280875292.html

 

Here's the money quote in question, from TWO anonymous sources:

 

 

The Twins, indeed, reached out to the Maddon camp after he became a free agent Friday, according to two sources with knowledge of the Twins’ search. It’s not clear how serious the Twins’ interest was, but the sides did talk.

 

It sure plays more like the club trying to play catch-up after wiping the negative PR egg off of their faces.

[one_eyed_jack]

I understand why a lot folks want Maddon, but the teeth-gnashing over the Twins not pulling a Brinks truck into his driveway the instant he hit the market is getting a bit silly.

 

I'm glad the Twins decided to make a managerial change, but I also don't think that alone is going to have that much of an impact.

 

Good managing cannot compensate for bad pitching. If your pitching stinks, your record is going to stink.

 

And the Twins pitching has stunk.  Bad.  An average of 800 runs surrendered in the last 4 seasons.

 

Sure Maddon could, and probably would, do some things differently to help that a bit, but it's not like hiring him would transform all of our starters into David Price.

[USAFChief]

I understand why a lot folks want Maddon, but the teeth-gnashing over the Twins not pulling a Brinks truck into his driveway the instant he hit the market is getting a bit silly.

 

I'm glad the Twins decided to make a managerial change, but I also don't think that alone is going to have that much of an impact.

 

Good managing cannot compensate for bad pitching. If your pitching stinks, your record is going to stink.

 

And the Twins pitching has stunk.  Bad.  An average of 800 runs surrendered in the last 4 seasons.

 

Sure Maddon could, and probably would, do some things differently to help that a bit, but it's not like hiring him would transform all of our starters into David Price.

Lack of pitching talent is not related to the managerial search.

 

Do you not fix the hole in your roof because you also have water in the basement?

[USAFChief]

I'm probably in the minority, but I have long since stopped paying much attention to LENIII. He's gotten pretty lazy as a beat writer. Last week I heard him on KFAN and his comment about Lovullo was "yeah, I need to figure out how to pronounce his name."

 

That coming from the Twins beat writer for the state's largest newspaper, who's supposed to be in-the-know about all things Twins.

 

I'll believe the Twins contacted Madden if Berardino reports it.

[stringer bell]

The runs allowed in the past four years could be bad pitching or bad defense or a combination of both. Poor performance when the opponent is hitting has to fall on one or more of three people--Ryan, Anderson and Gardenhire. Two of them are no longer working for the team, one is. Should the third guy have been fired? I don't think Ryan should be fired, but he shouldn't be given a pass either.

[The Wise One]

Maddon's team have one exactly ZERO championships with as great of talent as the Ray's have had. Bochy just won with exactly one decent pitcher. All the teeth nashing by the people here to forget one simple little detail,. If you are a great manager you should win at least one championship with thatgood of  talent. Maddon has not won the prize. 0 for 4.  Not even in the playoffs with a 2012 team that had one of the best staffs in baseball. Maddon can talk the talk, but his teams haven't done it. There is a disconnect if this guy is a baseball genius god and what his teams have produced.

[one_eyed_jack]

Lack of pitching talent is not related to the managerial search.

 

Do you not fix the hole in your roof because you also have water in the basement?

 

Read my post again. I said the managerial change was needed.

 

I didn't say don't fix the hole in the roof.  Yes, fix it.  But let's not pretend that fixing the hole in the roof will magically cause all of the other problems to go away.

[jay]

LEN says the Twins did reach out to Maddon.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/280875292.html

Yet another example of jumping to conclusions and making false facts out of preliminary, partial information?

Shocking.

[JB_Iowa]

Reusse's article is lazy.  Of course Maddon's record was better when he had good pitching.  I'm betting that is true for every manager.

 

The question then becomes:  did Maddon and his sfaff contribute to the quality of that pitching?

[JB_Iowa]

Yet another example of jumping to conclusions and making false facts out of preliminary, partial information?

Shocking.

 

Or maybe someone quickly reached out in the last day or so to cover their b*tts.

[USAFChief]

  But let's not pretend that fixing the hole in the roof will magically cause all of the other problems to go away.

I don't think anyone has made that claim.

[Craig Arko]

On the bright side, there's no chance of them transmitting ebola to each other.

[Squirrel]

Or maybe someone quickly reached out in the last day or so to cover their b*tts.

Or maybe not.