Communication Breakdown?

[jokin]

Postgame Twinsights: What happened on that Mike Moustakas shift?

 

The Rashomon Effect refers to the famous Akira Kurosawa movie and its depictions of contradictory interpretations of the exact same event by different people.  I usually record Gardy's post-game presser, he's usually pretty entertaining with his colorful interplay and jabs at the media- and of course, potential new Gardyisms, plus, it's the best way to get some unfiltered thoughts on his impressions of the just-concluded game.  On this night, things turned a little uncomfortable and somewhat cryptic when a couple of scribes questioned Gardy about midway through the Q & A session on the, what-turned-out-to-be crucial, Moustakas tapper to 2nd in the 8th inning that resulted in an infield KC single

 

 Maybe it's a good thing there were only two versions of the story officially on the record from Wednesday night's game.  I thought the team has played the division-leading, and hottest team in baseball, KC Royals pretty tough the last two nights, and on the road, no less. No reason for everybody to hang their heads and throw in the towel on the season.  It just looks like it's time for an infielder/coaches meeting to get everybody back on the same page regarding the defense.

 

Version One:

 

 

 

Twins manager Ron Gardenhire was understandably frustrated after Wednesday’s 6-1 loss.

 

One of his biggest frustrations, it seemed, on a night filled with soft hits for the Kansas City Royals was the eighth-inning infield single Mike Moustakas bounced into the teeth of a defensive shift.

“The guy’s trying to get him over, and we’re playing deep out there, which we’ve been playing a shift,” Gardenhire said. “We’ve talked about it. We’ve got to move in there. We’ve got to shorten up a little bit. That’s two times that’s happened to us where we just need to shorten up and get an out there, but they get a single there.”

I asked Gardenhire if the dugout was trying to get Dozier’s attention before the play, but that apparently was part of the breakdown.

“I didn’t say that. I just said he was playing too deep,” Gardenhire said. “That’s something we’ve talked about and we’ve got to get him to move in. We’ve got to get him to move in. We didn’t do it there. We’ve got to get him to move in. It’s the same situation. It’s something we’ve got to get straightened out here. That’s happened twice.”

 

 

Version Two:

 

 

 

Twins infield coach Paul Molitor is charged with positioning players on the infield shift, but somehow the communication broke down on that play. Or did it?

When I asked Dozier to take me through the Moustakas play, here’s what he said:

“We spend a lot of time — and obviously we play these guys a lot — to know exactly where to play him,” Dozier said. “Anytime there is nobody on or a guy in scoring position, we play him mainly (with) me all the way back and two steps pull. It’s a high-percentage play. That’s where he hits a majority of his balls on the ground.”

Again, Cain was at second, so Dozier played back. 

“The only time I would ever shorten up on (Moustakas) would be if maybe there’s a runner at third or at first,” Dozier said. “I might shorten up because I have to turn a double play. I can’t be in two places at once. Where I was playing was the best percentage play to make a play like that. It just so happened he hit a soft roller to my right.”

So, aside from not making the play, Dozier had no regrets about where he positioned himself?                                                                                                                                            

 “I’ll tell you this: If there’s a runner at second (Thursday) night and the same situation, I’m probably going to play at the  exact same position,” Dozier said. 

[Platoon]

I saw the play, several times... It looks like it fell under the heading of "bleep happens"! And why play in with the guy at second... He just cuts down his range, and obviously will not hold the runner! So the question is, who was Gardy throwing under the bus? Dozy has always seemed a Gardy guy, so he is likely not the target. And there have been rumblings about a lack of love between Molitor and Gardy, even to the extent that one of the conditions of Gardy's re-up was that Molitor be on the staff? Final thought..... With the exception of Mauer and Dozier the Twins defense is very ordinary. You can add Suzuki's ability to block balls in the dirt, but his throwing is at best very average. If you are going to pitch to contact, you better have someone catching all that contact.

[Winston Smith]

My first thought watching that last night was next year either Gardy or Molitor won't be back. With Gardy seeming to have a lifetime contract that would be Molitor getting the boot. Gardy doesn't like all the shifting he's made that clear.

[USAFChief]

It seems to me the time to move infielders is before your pitcher throws the first pitch to any given hitter, not during the post game interview.

[Boom Boom]

Interesting, huh - it sounds like if in fact Gardy had talked to Dozier about this particular play once before, Dozy didn't listen to him.  Maybe someone can reconcile the two sets of quotes, but I'm not seeing how.

[Mike Sixel]

So the bench is not allowed to communicate with the fielders? They don't have a system for doing that? Pathetic.

[iTwins]

The contrasting quotes are...concerning. Clearly there's miscommunitcation amongst management and players and at this point in the season, that's downright troubling.

 

As for the play itself, I'm not so sure Dozier (or Molitor) WAS wrong. They played Moustakas to pull and he did just that. Unfortunatley, the ball was hit very weakly, allowing him to beat the throw (since Dozier was so deep). The percentages line up in favor of the shift, the Twins just got beat by long odds.

 

That whole inning was full of long percentages falling in favor of the Royals. Ibanez is fooled outside of the zone, gets the very end of the bat on the ball and juuuuust drops it between Dozier and Sananta. The bunt fell perfectly to score the tying run. Butler was jammed inside, but the ball just dropped into RF. Sometimes, things don't break your way.

[Monkeypaws]

I turned the game off after that hit. I could see that Hughes was about to have his magnificent performance up to that point ruins by nibble-nuts bloops and bleeders.

 

That's baseball.

[drjim]

For some reason I remember Gardy making comments like this in 2010 when a similar slow roller was in front of Orlando Hudson and Gardy made a comment about Hudson playing too deep, even though it was a LH pull hitter so the positioning made sense. Just another "bleep happens" type of play that happens on occasion, especially with a shift, that was, as Dozier said, the smarter percentage play.

 

My uninformed speculation is that Gardy is a skeptic of the shift in general, and this was a passive aggressive way to complain about it, probably stemming from a second consecutive game being blown late.

[Platoon]

"We've got to get him" to play in lends itself to the dugout staff..... IMHO ...... Gardy has had odd tiffs like this before.... If I remember right he was very perturbed by Hicks flipping the ball to an infielder after a catch? Does anyone else remember that? If I remember correctly Hicksie erred under that catch all clause " respect for the game". I have come to believe that violating that philosophy to be a far more egregious than missing a cutoff man, running into an out at third, or any of the other numerous mistakes made this year.

[Linus]

I think shifting is going to be refined substantially in the coming years as more data becomes available from the current results.  I've noticed situations where is seems highly effective (against Mauer, for example) and times where is just seems like shifting is out smarting yourself.  I think this is the result of shifting in the wrong situations, having pitchers who can't pitch in coordination with the shift, and shifting on hitters that aren't great to begin with.

 

When you shift, you are opening a hole that just may not be worth it.  This is my take on that play - Moustakas is not worth shifting for - he's not a good enough hitter to hurt you most of the time.  We gave him a gift, just as if he hits a nubber to 3rd and nobody is there.

 

The rest of it is just frustration.  There are always going to be a few games where duck farts land and you lose.

[drjim]

I think shifting is going to be refined substantially in the coming years as more data becomes available from the current results.  I've noticed situations where is seems highly effective (against Mauer, for example) and times where is just seems like shifting is out smarting yourself.  I think this is the result of shifting in the wrong situations, having pitchers who can't pitch in coordination with the shift, and shifting on hitters that aren't great to begin with.

 

When you shift, you are opening a hole that just may not be worth it.  This is my take on that play - Moustakas is not worth shifting for - he's not a good enough hitter to hurt you most of the time.  We gave him a gift, just as if he hits a nubber to 3rd and nobody is there.

 

The rest of it is just frustration.  There are always going to be a few games where duck farts land and you lose.

 

I would say be careful with recency bias. Shifts are based on the data from many, many at bats. They make more extra outs than they lose. The key is to stick with it and not let a couple of fluke plays sway the usage.

[Kwak]

I didn't see the play, but did Dozier charge the ball?  I also think frustration is part of the quote though.  The Twins couldn't hit Liam Hendriks ferkrissake!  The [vaunted] bullpen blows another!

[Linus]

I would say be careful with recency bias. Shifts are based on the data from many, many at bats. They make more extra outs than they lose. The key is to stick with it and not let a couple of fluke plays sway the usage.

But its been relatively recently that most teams have begun shifting aggressively and against more players.  That data will be different than the data used when teams decided to start aggressive shifting against many more players.  Plus, the ability to accurately track the results will continue to improve with technology advances.  There has to be a "sweetspot" for best results and I think that is still being discovered.

[Bill]

Was he very deep? I did not see the game.

 

I have been at two games this year, and Dozier was very deep (maybe 5 yards onto the grass) each time the shift was put on. In one case a routine slow ground ball was hit straight to him.  He had to charge hard and made a throwing error.  In another case, the ball was hit harder and he did not charge and he got the runner by only half a step. 

 

Playing very deep may take away some bloop hits, but in the few times I have been watching he seemed too deep when the shift is on.

[Riverbrian]

I remember coaching one game. I was in the 1B dugout and my right fielder who isn't all that experienced was standing a foot or two from the fence about a foot off the RF line. 

 

I shouted to get his attention and waved my arms until I got him in a more normal position. It was like the 3rd inning and when he came back to the dugout... I asked him... how long was he playing in that spot and he said... the whole game. 

 

I was concentrating on my pitcher's mechanics and he was doing pretty good and I never noticed. It happens to the best of us. BTW... The Next inning... A hitter hit the ball that landed on the exact spot he was standing prior. He came back to the dugout and said... I would have had that. 

[Winston Smith]

Nice try Brian the Twins have 7 coaches on the bench at least one of them should be paying attention.

[jokin]

I remember coaching one game. I was in the 1B dugout and my right fielder who isn't all that experienced was standing a foot or two from the fence about a foot off the RF line. 

 

I shouted to get his attention and waved my arms until I got him in a more normal position. It was like the 3rd inning and when he came back to the dugout... I asked him... how long was he playing in that spot and he said... the whole game. 

 

I was concentrating on my pitcher's mechanics and he was doing pretty good and I never noticed. It happens to the best of us. BTW... The Next inning... A hitter hit the ball that landed on the exact spot he was standing prior. He came back to the dugout and said... I would have had that. 

 

Nice try Brian the Twins have 7 coaches on the bench at least one of them should be paying attention.

 

 

As Winston pointedly points out....  Forgive me RB, but per our discussion of a couple nights ago, is this one of those instances you were referring to when when descriptive adjectives "silly" and "ridiculous" viably come into play as a riposte when you "hang one out there?" 

[Craig Arko]

It was almost as bad as this.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8932197/Pearl-Harbour-memo-shows-US-warned-of-Japanese-attack.html