LA Vikes Fan

Agreed, but who? The AAA cupboard is bare. Best hitters are Helman and Palacious. Maybe Contreras comes back when he is eligible on 8/16? I'm with you but I just don't see any options.

Agreed, but who do you call up to take his place? The best hitters at AAA are Helman and Palacios and neither is burning up the league. Contreras didn't do much with the Twins and he can't come back until 8/16 since he was sent down on 8/6. Beckham and Cave were the best two hitters in AAA and they aren't much in the Bigs. It may be that Buxton as a DH twice a week is the best alternative.

I think the point is not to panic just because we've been caught by Cleveland or got blown out by the Dodgers. I live in LA and the Dodgers have now won 9 in a row by a combined score of 62-13. They are stacked. Losing to the Dodgers is no shame. Ask the Padres. The Dodgers blew them out 3 times a row. Closest score was 4-0. The fact we've lost ground in the Division is a little more concerning, We've essentially been a .500 team since late May. We haven't really clicked on all cylinders for awhile. I still think winning the division is the best and probably the only way in and that will only happen if we do and go on a .600ish kind of long term streak. Frankly we didn't really have the pitching to pull that kind of streak off before. I think we may have have that kind of pitching now. The schedule eases after tonight and really eases up after 9/10. I think we'll find out soon enough if this group can pull things together.

I share everyone's feelings about Sano. Some real hope, following by a roller coaster of emotions leading to a disappointing ending. I do hope that Miami gives him a chance. Playing for Rowson in a warm weather city is his best chance of regaining whatever he has left. I feel for the guy but he has no place on the Twins.

I wasn't very clear; I was trying to say pitchers that go into the 7th. That should have been 6+ innings, not 7+. I do think those pitchers exist. In fact, I think Mahle may be one of them, particularly against weaker opponents.

Interesting head to head predictions. I think they split with the Dodgers since the Dodgers will be running out a AAA starter on Wednesday. I'd like to think they will go 4-2 against the Angels instead of the predicted 3-3. I think your 6-3 against KC may be optimistic but I'll go with that and I'll go with either 3-0 against the Tigers, 6-3 against the Pale Hose, or 2-2 against the Yankees. Bottom line: 90-72. Win the Central, open up against Tampa Bay, win that series 2-1, and then lose to Houston in 6 games.

I agree with the premise of the article but disagree with the comments that this is somehow the manager's fault or that the FO hasn't tried to deal with these issues. The reality is that the Twins have about 80-85% of the players necessary for a championship contender. We are short at least (1) a true workhorse starter who can consistently give us 7+ innings a game, (2) another middle of the order bat that can be a consistent run producer (that's more due to injury than anything else), and (3) sufficient bullpen depth, including a shut down left-handed relief pitcher. If you look at the statistics, you can understand why Rocco is not letting our starters have that 3rd trip through the order; all of them, repeat all of them, have consistently poor results that 3rd trip through. Even Ryan. Gray has always been that way. You could try to develop younger pitchers like Ryan by giving him that 3rd trip through but that may be at the expense of a few wins over the course of the season. I think the front office made the right move picking up Tyler Mahle to try to give us that 7+ inning pitcher. Time will tell if he can actually do that. The lack of a middle of the order band is I think the bigger problem because it puts too much pressure on the 4 or 5 solid offensive guys we have and over time their performance suffers as a result. To me, this was the one thing we didn't get at the trade deadline that we should have. Thank goodness for the development of José Miranda and the emergence or career year of Nick Gordon because without them we would really be in trouble offensively. I do think the FO did a good job strengthening the bullpen at the deadline and made the right call with Tyler Duffey. I would frankly like to see them make the same call with Pagan but I understand the irresistible lure of his talent. He at least has the basic talent to be a successful pitcher, something Duffey unfortunately no longer has. There are at least attacking this weakness and the return of Maeda in the bullpen could really help if that happens. I think our record is very reflective of our talent level and I think Rocco has done a good job of maximizing the production of the players he has. I think the bottom line is that were just short a little bit on the talent side so it requires us to have guys do more than there really capable of to be successful. I frankly think the injuries to Larnach and Kirilloff in particular really hurt us by depriving us of that guy that could hit in the number 5 or 6 hole and really lengthen in the lineup. Guys like Kepler, Sanchez, Urshela, Celestino, and now Cave are nice players to have if they hit 7 through 9 order where occasional offensive contributions can be enjoyed. The problem is we don't have enough hitters so all of a sudden Gordon has to hit 5, Buxton has to play when he really should be on the IL, Polanco doesn't get the chance to heal his back, and the team winds up counting on guys like the 4 mentioned above to be run producers. They aren't and probably never will be(although you never know with the guys in a Celestino). The real issue is were just a little short of the players we need. That's not Rocco's fault. I don't know if he or the Front Office are average, good, or great. The one thing I do know since they got here the team is better, more competitive, more enjoyable to watch, and gives one hope that they could actually win the division and even potentially compete in the playoffs. That is a huge step up from where we were before they got here.

I think there’s a very good chance that Sanchez will get another opportunity to either start or be the long man for the Twins this season. All it takes is an IL stint for any starter in the short run and it wouldn’t surprise me if the overall plan is to replace Sands with Sanchez once the hold is over. I think he also hast to wait 10 or 15 days before he can be recalled. Same for Cotton. Frankly, I’d like either one of those guys In the bullpen the head of Pagán but I just don’t see the Twins giving up on his live arm without finding a way to get something in return. Giving his history, I am surprised that Archer has lasted this long into the season. Sanchez is his replacement at some point. Also, let’s not forget that Sanchez was essentially a Street free agent when the Twins picked him up after being released by Washington. It’s not like he’s got a lot of people clamoring for his services. Not surprising that he stayed with the one team that gave him a chance.

I do think there's something missing from this analysis that may change the conclusion. As fans, we have to rely published evaluations of minor league players. The far better evaluation tool is to look at what other teams will give up to get your minor league players. It's kind of like real estate, you can find valuations of your house all over the Internet but the real valuation is what someone will give you for that house. Here, I think the last trade deadline shows that the FO has done a good job drafting and restocking the farm system. We were able to trade 9 minor league players for a number 2 or 3 starter and a high and closer who both have significant control remaining, and a very good rental set up man. To me, that's the market saying to the Twins that "you have good minor league players". By contrast, there were several other teams looking to upgrade by trading prospects who couldn't do so because other teams did not highly value their prospects. I believe that a majority if not all of the prospects traded were drafted by this Front Office. All of that happened without trading some other guys drafted by this Front Office who potentially could have garnered even higher returns because they were so good as to be untouchable (Miranda), or were injured and/or untouchable (Larnach, Kirilloff, Lewis)., Farm systems exist for 2 reasons, not just one. The 1st is of course to provide a steady stream of low cost players to the major league club. The 2nd and almost as important reason is to provide resources so that when you are in an open intention window you can make trades for establish major leaguers without giving established major leaguers back in return. I think when you look at the totality of circumstances to me the more fair conclusion is that this Front Office has done a solid to very good job drafting the last 3 or 4 years and was able to turn those solid to very good drafts into established major league players. I think that shows a good organizational approach. We reaped the benefits of that approach at this year's deadline.

Agreed. Also, the issue may be partially mental as well as physical. He had a significant injury on his wrist. It is unlikely to ever be the same as is was before the surgery. Hopefully they can find a way to alleviate the inflammation to give him some relief. Even if they do, it starting to look like part of playing long term for him is probably going to include pain management and a willingness to play through pain, i.e., swing hard through the zone when it hurts to do so. That's a hard pill to swallow when you're 35 and trying to extend your career, even harder when you're 24 and just starting out. I agree that he should get 2nd and 3rd opinions to see if there's surgical cure or therapy regimen. I hope there is. I suspect though that his career going forward is going to include a need to play through pain and accept a pre-game regimen to allow him to play similar to what Buxton goes through. That requires him to make a mental adjustment. I hope he can.

I am too, but I still think we need another bat. We also picked up Sandy Leon to be the backup C for the next 4-6 weeks. Would like to top off the day with a trade for Ian Happ but I'm thinking that may be a bridge too far.

Happy about this trade. Add in a trade for either Mahle or Pablo Lopez and I'm a very happy Twins fan. Would even be ok with Syndegaard, Rondon or Smyly off the rental market. Would also love to see them find a way to get Josh Bell from the Nats or Ian Happ from the Cubs. With it looking more and more likely that Kirilloff is out for the year, Larnach a maybe to come back and help, Sano done, and Garlick not hitting, we need 2 middle of the order bats. Amazingly, Miranda looks like he's one of them. Let's go get another bat.

Good move, excellent one if Lopez is the guy we've seen this year going forward. Rocket arm who should really help the back of the bullpen. Even better, 2.5 years left of control. Not a rental. Povich may be a long term MLB starter, but he may not, and Cano looks like he's at best an average reliever. The 2 young guys are lottery tickets. I think a very fair trade for both teams. We get immediate late inning help during an open contention window. Sends a great message to the clubhouse that the FO believes in them and is getting some help NOW. Orioles get some immediate innings out of Cano and some possible real upside to help in their next contention window in 2024-25. Well done, FO, well done.

Polanco is arguably our most consistent, "best" hitter this year. Good in the clutch, good RBI man, good run producer. He also seems to have found a solid defensive home at 2B. His abilities also make us able to have guys like Steer as a trade chip. Frankly, I would put him in the 4 hole in the order and just leave him there for the rest of the season. He is clearly part of the core for the next 2-3 years. We're lucky to have him, and on a team friendly contract to boot.

I like the ideas, not thrilled with Syndergaard. Substitute Blake Snell even if we need to add a non top 30 prospect and I’m in.

Correct. Miranda is 23, he can improve defensively. More importantly, so far he has shown that he can hit - .280/.330/.462 in the last 30 games and better than that after his first 60 ABs or so. Guys who hit like this with power don't grow on trees. Plus, this his his first go around, chances are this will improve. AND we have 5-6 years of control. He stays unless we get a pitcher of similar quality with 4-5 years of control. Same for Kirilloff - .306/.362/.459 over the last 30 games. Those 2 are the middle of the order for 2023 and beyond. I'd trade Larnach (but only for top end starter), and I would part with Celestino, Steer, and Wallner in the right trades. I'd even think about trading Ober or Winder but not both. For me, Miranda and Kirilloff are untouchable unless the return is a quality starting pitcher with multiple years of control and that ain't happening.

i agree except I would be willing to deal Ober in a deal for a starting pitcher. To me, the other 3 would only go in a spectacular deal for us (not happening).

I disagree with the other posters. I think this is a potentially high upside, low downside deal once Mahle gets away from that bandbox in Cincinnati. As I've said in other posts, we need to get past our attachment to prospects and be willing to trade quality to get quality. Particularly, we need to be willing to trade bat first corner OFs and non-SS IFs. That's where our surplus is. Mahle is the guy to get if we can't get Castillo or the price for Montas is too high. I worry less about shoulder issues with a clean MRI since frankly every pitcher in MLB has shoulder issues at some point. Elbow issues are what concerns me. Having said that, still think the offer is a little rich. I'm fine with Wallner and Martin, but I would like to keep SWR. How about substituting Raya or Varland for SWR? Or maybe Canterino? They are a little farther away from MLB so they fit the Reds' timeline better. Another thought is a straight up trade of Larnach for Mahle? That is an overpay by the Twins, but not if we can get a 2-3 year deal with Mahle as part of the trade or if the Reds throw in a non-40 pitching prospect or a catching prospect like Nelson. In each scenario, I think the Twins are trading form surplus for need. Bottom line, I think Mahle is a real target and a realistic one to boot. I hoe we get him if we don't get Castillo or Montas.

i agree that this is a complicated decision but strongly disagree with the premise that we don't have the prospect capital to get deals done. We can get a top end starter like Montas or Castillo - we just need to be willing to trade a Larnch or Miranda type PLUS (1) Ober or (2) a Steer, Wallner, and a lower level but high upside guy like CES, Julien, Sabato, Varland, etc. As for me, I would like to keep Miranda but wouldn't be opposed to moving him as the headliner package for a great return (Montas or Castillo plus a solid reliever with some remaining control). We can do the deals, we just have to be willing to give up quality. I am very open to dealing Larnach as a headline piece in a trade for starting pitching. Kirilloff is our LF for the foreseeable future because Arraez is the 1B, followed by Miranda. We all need to accept that reality. So unless we are going to trade Kepler - who won't get us much of a return - there simply is no room at the inn for Larnach to play every day. Same for Steer and Wallner. They play positions - corner OF, 2B and 3B - where we have players in place who are younger, cost controlled, and aren't going anywhere. You trade from surplus for need. Our need? Pitching, pitching and more pitching. Our surplus? Corner OF bats and guys who have good to high ceilings and can play 2B or 3B. That's who you trade. Also, let's not forget why you develop quality depth in the minors. The first and most obvious reason is to feed the MLB club, but it is not the only reason. The other reason is so you have players to trade for established MLB players on other teams in those years were you believe you have a chance to complete. I think this is one of those years and am open to using our prospect capital to improve the big club, particularly with respect to players who have more than just the rest of 2022 to offer. We all need to be willing to "let go" of some of the prospects we know and love so that we can trade them for established players who can help us right now. I personally think any Twins prospect recently graduating to MLB or still in the minors should be available except for Lewis, Ryan, Kirilloff, Duran and WInder, except that I would only move Miranda for an established MLB starter with at least 1.5 years of control and a chance of re-signing with the team. Other than that, everyone else should be available, That's the attitude I think the FO should have going into this trade deadline. I think if they have that attitude, there is no reason that this team can't put competitive trade packages together to try to get the three things that would really help (1) a quality starting pitcher like Montas or Castillo, (2) at least one quality rental reliever like Robertson, Bard, Okert, or Lopez (I would also use acquisition #1 to kick Chris Archer into the bullpen to add a second quality bullpen piece), and (3) a short-term rental bat you might have a chance of re-signing like Josh Bell. That's what we need to do and I don't think we need to "deplete the farm" to get it done.

Agreed. We can get a top end starter like Montas or Castillo - we just need to be willing to trade a Larnch or Miranda type PLUS (1) Ober or (2) a Steer, Wallner, and a lower level but with high upside guy like CES, Julien, Sabato, Varland, etc. As for me, I would like to keep Miranda but wouldn't be opposed to moving him for a great return (Montas plus a solid reliever). I am very open to dealing Larnach as a headline piece in a trade for starting pitching. Kirilloff is our LF for the foreseeable future because Arraez is the 1B, followed by Miranda. We all need to accept that reality. So unless we are going to trade Kepler - who won't get us much of a return - there simply is no room at the inn for Larnach to play every day. Same for Steer and Wallner. They play positions - corner OF, 2B and 3B - where we have players in place who are younger, cost controlled, and aren't going anywhere. You trade from surplus for need. Our need? Pitching, pitching and more pitching. Our surplus? Corner OF bats and guys who have good to high ceilings and can play 2B or 3B. That's who you trade. Also, let's not forget why you develop quality depth in the minors. The first and most obvious reason is to feed the MLB club, but it is not the only reason. The other reason is so you have players to trade for established MLB players on other teams in those years were you believe you have a chance to complete. I think this is one of those years and am open to using our prospect capital to improve the big club, particularly with respect to players who have more than just the rest of 2022 to offer. We all need to be willing to "let go" of some of the prospects we know and love so that we can trade them for established players who can help us right now. I personally think any Twins prospect recently graduating to MLB or still in the minors should be available except for Ryan, Kirilloff, Duran and WInder, except that I would only move Miranda for an established MLB starter with at least 1.5 years of control and a chance of re-signing with the team. Other than that, everyone else should be available, That's the attitude I think the FO should have going into this trade deadline.

Larnach and Canterino for Montas and AJ Puk (or Lou Trevino). Larnach and Canterino or Steer for Castillo. Enlow for Robertson or Bard. Archer to bullpen in a late inning role (adjust his contract incentives). Sands, Strotman, and a lower level non-40 man guy (Julien?) for Josh Bell and Tanner Rainey from the Nationals. Substitute Austin Martin for Larnach in above scenarios if that works; don't be afraid to substitute Martin AND Balazovic for Larnach if they would accept that. A package of Martin, Balazovic and Canterino is probably not enough for either starter.

Agree that at least Larnach would be part of the ask for Castillo PLUS something else. I went on baseball trade values and came away wiht Larnach plus Canterino for Castillo. By the way that same package also netted Montas plus AJ Puk from Oakland. I would do either of those two deals. What about you guys?

Lopez looks like a tough target to me - high cost, high risk. If you believe Baseball Trade Values, Larnach and Canterino gets you Montas and Puk from Oakland or Castillo from Cincinnati and we keep Steer. Larnach and Steer for Lopez is also about right. It's also much more likely that we can get a "fair" deal wiht Oakland or Cincinnati since they are likely to trade those starters with 1.5 year of control than from Miami trading a high end starter with multiple years of control. Plus, Montas and Castillo are both better than Lopez although controllable for less time. Given those assumed choices, I would much rather make a deal for Montas or Castillo. I think Lopez is too risky and out of our price range.

Honest analysis. I agree that we need one impact starter, 2 bullpen pieces, and a hitter. This Lineup needs another run producer in the number 4 spot in the order and it ain't Max Kepler and I don't think it will be Miguel Sano. Where I disagree is the idea that the choice is either to stand pat or "gut the farm" to improve the team for this year and potentially next. We have a lot of prospect capital. The value of prospect capital isn't simply to graduate people to the MLB roster over time, it's equally as important to have that so we can trade it when we need to, not just to keep it forever. More than half of these guys will never amount to much on a MLB roster. We need to stop obsessing about keeping every single prospect who might have one flash in the pan year or even a solid MLB career, and use that prospect capital to improve the MLB club. That's 1 of the things it's for. Here's my dream of how you do this to improve the team and I don't think it means that we are "gutting the farm" (all trades vetted through Baseball Trade Values): 1) Laranch and Canterino to the As for Montas and Puk . . . or Larnach, Canterino, and an A Ball guy to the Reds for Castillo. Starting pitching added, maybe with a left handed reliever. 2) Sands, Strotman and Julien to Nationals for Josh Bell and Tanner Rainey. Throw in Sano and enough cash to pay his salary so he doesn't add or subtract from value. The Nationals get pitching prospects, and outfield prospect, and a replacement 1B with maybe some upside. Gets us a #4 hitter and solid 7th inning type reliever. 3. Here's the tough one - Enlow for Daniel Robertson of the Cubs or Enlow and Festa for Jorge Lopez of the Orioles. Closer added. 4. Archer goes into the bullpen as a late inning reliever/closer (with this contract adjusted so he can reach incentives), and Winder goes into the bullpen as a long reliever/6th starter. Pagan is thrown into some trade, maybe to the Cubs or A's, demoted with his consent to work on things in St. Paul, or released. Thoughts? I don't see this as gutting the farm in any way. Sure, losing these guys will hurt and maybe this is not enough to get the people I mentioned, although Baseball Trade Value seems to think it is, but to me this is one of the reasons you build up your farm system - To trade prospects for established MLB players when doing so have the chance to put you in a contending position. I think that's where we are. I would make each of these deals if available.

Not a bad pitcher, like the years of control. I just think that Celestino is a big overpay and Gordon probably is too. Besides, Gordon may need to be our starting SS next year until Lewis is ready to come back. I would be willing to consider Wallner since he is still an unproven prospect who may or may not ever amount to anything. Still feels like an over pay though. Interestingly, baseball trade values lists Okert at 2.8, Celestino at 2.1, Gordon at 1.1 and Wallner at 3. I don't think those are updated from the beginning of the season though and all 3 would be up from that time given their performance this season. My "overpay" comment may be more based on perceived value to the Twins than overall. W need Celestino or at least Gordon to play CF on all the days Buxton can't and we need Gordon for next year to play SS for awhile if Correa opts out. I'm not willing to put Palacios bat in the lineup every day or move Polanco back to SS. Bottom line, Like this guy as a possibility but we need to trade from the MiLB depth for him, not the MLB roster.