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    Hardball, the Twins, and Byron Buxton

    Ted Schwerzler

    By Ted Schwerzler

    Byron Buxton was activated off the Triple A disabled list in mid-August and returned to game action for the Rochester Red Wings on August 14. He’s played in 10 games since that point, but the Twins don’t seem willing to commit to the idea that he’ll be a big leaguer come September. Make no mistake about it, this is a service time issue, and a silly one at that.

    UPDATE: Darren Wolfson of KSTP shared on Twitter that he has been told Buxton will be heading home at the conclusion of the minor league season.

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    Friday evening update: Wolfson shared that Buxton would not be joining the Twins tomorrow, as the rosters expand to 40. He later confirmed that the plan, at least at the moment, is that Byron will shut it down as soon as Rochester's season ends Monday.

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    In 2018 Buxton has played in just 28 games with the Twins, and his .383 OPS is third worst among all players with at least 90 plate appearances. Due to migraines, a broken toe, and a wrist injury, he’s missed a considerable chunk of the season. Calling 2018 a lost year would be defining it well, but there’s still opportunity to get something of value from the remaining slate.

    At the crux of Buxton’s issues is the fact that he simply needs exposure. Playing time and competition against the best in the sport are the avenue to getting him back on track. A season ago, he was the Platinum Glove winner, a Gold Glove winner, and he garnered MVP votes in the American League. The bat still wasn’t where Minnesota had hoped, but the reality is that his defense is so good that there’s significant margin for error.

    From this writer’s vantage point, the Twins have made some peculiar decisions with Buxton in 2018. Not sending him out on a rehab assignment following his time missed with migraines was fine in my estimation. After completing his rehab assignment revolving around his broken toe, demoting him to Triple A was nothing short of confusing. Regardless of standing, Minnesota went from suggesting that Buxton’s defense was so imperative to the team’s success that they needed him here, to believing he couldn’t hit MLB pitching and Triple A was the place for a jump-start.

    Since rejoining Rochester from his latest stint on the disabled list, Buxton is slashing .386/.413/.659 with nine extra-base hits. He has a less than ideal 10/1 K/BB rate, but it’s again clear that he’s well above the level he's currently tasked with. Although he didn’t voice it publicly, I’d imagine Buxton would echo his wife’s sentiments when it comes to the oddity that the training wheels of Triple A seem necessary at this point in his career.

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    As far as I’m concerned, confidence issues are real, but they only carry so much weight. Thus far Minnesota has opted to look at Triple A as a breeding ground for Byron to feast and “find confidence” at the major league level. That’s all fine and well in theory, but if the results don’t translate to the highest level, nothing accomplished on the farm really matters. Instead of facing far inferior competition, having Byron working with James Rowson on a daily basis and getting acclimated to a consistent dose of the best competition seems like a much more fundamentally sound plan.

    Legally the Twins can’t publicly say that Byron Buxton won’t be up in September because of service time considerations. Per Jeremy Nygaard’s calculations, Minnesota can save a year of service time if Buxton is held back beyond September 18. The Rochester Red Wings end their season on September 3, and from that point on there’d be nowhere else for him to go play. Byron not being in Houston with the Twins on September 4 would signify nothing short of service time manipulation.

    The idea of service time value doesn’t typically come into play with an established big leaguer. A prospect like Eloy Jimenez or Vlad Guerrero Jr. being held back through September to gain a year in a lost season makes some sense. The Twins manipulating service time for a guy they think needs Triple A to jump-start his big-league bat every time it slumps, or he misses time is an entirely different scenario. Arguably nothing could be more important for the star center fielder than exposure. Getting at-bats, getting into games, and making up lost time in the big leagues is a must. Giving up those opportunities under the guise of future considerations seems laughable at the current juncture.

    I had hoped Buxton would be in a Twins uniform by now. He could’ve gotten in a couple of games with Rochester and then begun to re-establish himself through the remainder of the MLB schedule. It’s fine that the move hasn’t been made yet, but that won’t be the case if it doesn’t happen when September 4th rolls around.

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    A blogger for over a decade, passion for baseball and the Minnesota Twins runs deep. Whether at the ballpark or on the couch, I'm probably tweeting.
    Follow Ted Schwerzler on Twitter: tlschwerz

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    Doomtints

    Doomtints 2,816

  • Verified Member

    • Posted (edited)

     

    Your 'facts' still boil down to if Buxton doesn't figure out a way to stay off the injured list and doesn't become an all-star, all this moaning and groaning about how unfair the Twins brass are won't matter because he won't be on the team in four years when this worrisome extra year of control kicks in.

     

    Morality is how you treat the non-super star. Yes, it matters how they treat Buxton regardless of his future fame.

     

    And if he pulls off that MVP year, that extra year of "control" means having to pay more to keep him. Salaries in the MLB go up drastically each and every year. Unless they don't want to keep him regardless of how well he performs?

    Edited by Doomtints
    IndianaTwin

    IndianaTwin 12,195

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    1. I think the Profar comparison is interesting, and helpful. I hope Buxton has a similar response. There's no reason Profar needs to do this, but I think it would a classy move for him to reach out to Buxton and say, "I've been there -- go prove them wrong."

     

    https://www.twincities.com/2018/09/02/byron-buxton-decision-becomes-sensitive-topic-for-twins-players/ 

     

    2. I think Molitor's quotes make sense: “I’m going to have a nice conversation with him and share my perspective,” Molitor said Sunday in Arlington, Texas. “We’ll try to get to where the understanding and the respect remains. I don’t think it’s going to be a problem between Byron and (me).” and “Sometimes I think time is a really good ally for everybody involved. Ultimately it’s still going to be about him and his career and his performance and his health, all those things moving forward.”

     

    We can bellyache about Molitor decisions, but one thing I think he does pretty well is remain under control, not throwing guys under the bus, and dealing with people one-on-one. I suspect there will be a hear-to-heart conversation between the two of them that we won't even hear about, and that's probably a good thing. 

     

    3. I think Levine was a straight shooter with his comments. I paraphrase his message as, "We made a tough decision, and Byron and his agent have their right to be disappointed. We would be disappointed if he didn't want to come up to the majors. We still believe Byron can help us, so we are going to do our part to make it a good relationship going forward." And I applaud them for not trying to force such a conversation right now -- those chats rarely go well when they happen in the heat of the moment. 

     

     

     

    Monkeypaws

    Monkeypaws 3,358

  • Verified Member

    • Posted (edited)

    After mulling this over for a minute or two, front office gets the win. IF Buxton is pissed off and gets an "I'll show you" attitude, they get and extra year. If he busts, sad story, but really this situation is not a make or break if Buxton is actually a MLB caliber player: a month of stat padding garbage time? Who cares?

     

    If he shrivels because of this, well, that isn't the make-up of a champion(using some sports lingo there folks).

     

    Also, what if they call him up and he fails miserably yet again? So much for momentum going into next season.

     

    If I were the Twins, I'd find a failed prospect righty pitcher who's only tool was either a killer slider or curve and hire them to throw to Buxton and Sano all winter until they could recognize those pitches in their sleep. 

    Edited by Monkeypaws
    Mike Sixel

    Mike Sixel 55,015

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

     

    1. This isn't a "service time issue" until he's not on the roster when the Triple-A season ends. All of this is merely conjecture and frankly rallying the troops for something that isn't even that likely.

     

    2. True enough, the optics would be bad if Buxton isn't brought up. "Service time" is something to worry about with guys like Acuna/Bryant, not guys who have 300-plus MLB games with middling results. 

     

    3. See above with how Ted's mind changes from day to day. I'm surprised more people haven't noticed this. 

     

    4. Buxton has been away from the MLB team for three months and has played a grand total of 35 games -- one at Fort Myers, and 34 at Rochester. Let's look at the Rochester games, as he's hit a respectable .280/.336/.470 with the Red Wings.

    • First 29 games: .234/.298/.405
    • Last six games: .524/.545/.810

    To say his numbers overall deserve a promotion is totally true, but dig deeper and it's easy to see he was still knocking off some rust.

     

    5. The Twins already know if they're bringing Buxton up -- they just aren't saying publicly. There's no reason for them to. Again, until he's not up on that day, this is just sounding the alarms for no other reason than to draw page views.

     

    Hey look, he's not coming up. Just like Austin has sat 25% of the time, and Belisle and Gimenez are playing since coming back. 

    Jham

    Jham 2,506

  • Verified Member

    • Posted (edited)

    Buxton stole an MLB paycheck for 2 months last season. We stuck with him through thick and thin.His track for his injury this year could have bern a DL, rehab, option play very easily but gave him another chance to stick. It worked last year, not this year. He was playing every other game in AAA with the wrist injury. I think people forget how truly awful Buck was BEFORE his toe injury. We burned this bridge with Perkins once, and it turned out good for everyone. Especially the Yankees.

    Edited by Jham
    TheLeviathan

    TheLeviathan 20,987

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

     

    I don't think so. Wrist issues aren't new for him, I think a shutdown then would have passed without much angst. Especially with a "Ft. Myers" type action plan. Most folks were already shrugging it off as a lost season by then (for Buxton and for the Twins as a team).

    The messaging gets super-clouded when you let him play through it at AAA, he plays fairly well, and then you try to revive the "lost season" framing on Sep. 1st.

     

    I think you're giving fans way too much credit.  The bar for angst is much lower.  Look no further than the trade deadline, of which you were a part.

     

    What would've been different is they would've had a legitimate leg to stand on.  I think they should've spent more time talking about how Buxton couldn't even be relied to play every day since the wrist injury - that should've been front and center in their reasoning.  We all know service time is a major factor, but so is health.  

    Riverbrian

    Riverbrian 42,821

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

     

    1. I think the Profar comparison is interesting, and helpful. I hope Buxton has a similar response. There's no reason Profar needs to do this, but I think it would a classy move for him to reach out to Buxton and say, "I've been there -- go prove them wrong."

     

    https://www.twincities.com/2018/09/02/byron-buxton-decision-becomes-sensitive-topic-for-twins-players/ 

     

    2. I think Molitor's quotes make sense: “I’m going to have a nice conversation with him and share my perspective,” Molitor said Sunday in Arlington, Texas. “We’ll try to get to where the understanding and the respect remains. I don’t think it’s going to be a problem between Byron and (me).” and “Sometimes I think time is a really good ally for everybody involved. Ultimately it’s still going to be about him and his career and his performance and his health, all those things moving forward.”

     

    We can bellyache about Molitor decisions, but one thing I think he does pretty well is remain under control, not throwing guys under the bus, and dealing with people one-on-one. I suspect there will be a hear-to-heart conversation between the two of them that we won't even hear about, and that's probably a good thing. 

     

    3. I think Levine was a straight shooter with his comments. I paraphrase his message as, "We made a tough decision, and Byron and his agent have their right to be disappointed. We would be disappointed if he didn't want to come up to the majors. We still believe Byron can help us, so we are going to do our part to make it a good relationship going forward." And I applaud them for not trying to force such a conversation right now -- those chats rarely go well when they happen in the heat of the moment. 

     

    I agree that Molitor's comments were perfect. 

    ewen21

    ewen21 1,439

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    Reading posts about Buxton here over the last couple of years the praise has been overly effusive and premature.  I quite frankly don't like venerating baseball players as some otherwordly beings.  They entertain me by playing baseball.  I am more in awe of a surgeon, a doctor, certain people in law enforcement, the military, etc....those are truly exceptional people.

     

    I appreciate baseball players for their ability to play a game and they get plenty of praise lavished upon them along with a ton of money.  I think Mauer and Buxton get treated like royalty here in some ways and it is sort of verboten to offer criticism about either.  

     

    Byron Buxton is not a star by any stretch of the imagination.  Last year was an outlier season for his fielding.  I seriously doubt he will ever be able to match what he did in the field last year because he was fortunate to get tons of opportunities.  Let's just be honest here and admit that he is a big concern right now.  Not just for his very real struggles with his hitting (last year's final 7 or 8 weeks aside), but also for his frequent injuries.  He is going to be in his 25 year old season and a lot of the pundits here had him earmarked to be a superstar by now.  I just sat back and listened.  I don't have a crystal ball, but apparently some do.  And if I had a nickel for every thread or article tellimg me that "Byron Buxton is Fast" I would have at least $1.98, almost enough to buy a happy meal.

    Not trying to be combative here, just wondering when people are going to tone it down.  Seems totally OK for people to attack those who criticize Buxton and I don't get it.  There should be equal time.

     

    I am not asking people to come forward and say they were wrong, but I am wondering why people are still fighting hard to tell us how good he is and how good he can be.  Can we at least sit back and see without getting a talking to about comments on what happened this season?  To discuss what went down in an honest and accurate manner is being characterized as "negativity" and I am really growing weary of that.

     

    Buxton had a rough season on many levels.  Not for anything, but I saw a red flag back in March when Mike Beradino wrote this article about how he takes pride in playing with pain:

    https://www.twincities.com/2018/03/28/twins-star-byron-buxton-takes-pride-in-his-ability-to-play-through-pain/

    He didn't or could not do that this season and it won't get any easier as time marches forward.

     

    I am not ready to say he is a BUST, but damn if he doesn't look like one right now.  He needs to have an epiphany and understand that YES.....we do need him to stay healthy and hit. This would mean that he needs to make changes in how he does things.  That needs to start this winter.  Heck, that should start TODAY, in my opinion. What he did (even with all his talent) isn't quite geting it done

    Otto von Ballpark

    Otto von Ballpark 20,382

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

    I think you're giving fans way too much credit. The bar for angst is much lower. Look no further than the trade deadline, of which you were a part.

     

    What would've been different is they would've had a legitimate leg to stand on. I think they should've spent more time talking about how Buxton couldn't even be relied to play every day since the wrist injury - that should've been front and center in their reasoning. We all know service time is a major factor, but so is health.

    Actually, Buxton's wrist issue came up around the trade deadline too. Shutting him down then would have almost certainly caused less consternation, simply because it would have been sharing the spotlight. Not to mention that his bat had not warmed up yet, which is a big source of the confusion now.

     

    Also, I think the trade deadline angst would have been dissipated if they had traded someone at the beginning of July when they were 12 games back, or otherwise communicated they were shifting gears. Some of that is understandable publicly, but it could have been dealt with better privately. The manager and players should not learn the club is sellers from a TV in the clubhouse.

     

    Actually those same communication issues are probably at the root of the Buxton situation now, where the public statements said his bat had to warm up before they'd recall him, and it did -- and then the parameters of the recall suddenly seemed to change. They should have laid the groundwork for this decision, publicly and to Buxton and the clubhouse, by July 2nd when they optioned him, or later in the month when the wrist injury flared up. (If not simply shut him down upon the latter event.) Instead we can clearly see a player who is upset, a clubhouse which is confused, and a GM throwing a bunch of reasons against the wall to see what sticks.

     

    (I still think the wrist is not the highest concern right now -- he wouldn't be playing on it at all in late August if it was serious enough to warrant a September shutdown. Getting ample time off as he worked his way back was prudent, and it certainly made it difficult to recall him before Sep. 1st, but isn't really a concern after rosters expand.)

    adorduan

    adorduan 1,359

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

     

    Morality is how you treat the non-super star. Yes, it matters how they treat Buxton regardless of his future fame.

     

    And if he pulls off that MVP year, that extra year of "control" means having to pay more to keep him. Salaries in the MLB go up drastically each and every year. Unless they don't want to keep him regardless of how well he performs?

    So what? At least you are paying for performance instead of "potential".

    Blackjack

    Blackjack 869

  • Provisional Member

    • Posted

     

    So, are you then saying that if he does figure out a way to stay off the DL and does become an all-star that all this was spot on? And that it will then become worrisome about being able to sign him when he hits FA because of how unfair the FO was in this decision despite the contrary moaning and groaning about the moaning and groaning?

     

    (And as a bit of a note ... let's refrain from calling people's differing opinions as moaning and groaning.)

    Thanks, I needed a good chuckle! I'm referring to the fact that you referred to 'moaning and groaning' - twice - in your post, and then chided me on it.

     

    Not sure what your point was though, I read it twice and still don't understand...

    Blackjack

    Blackjack 869

  • Provisional Member

    • Posted

     

    Morality is how you treat the non-super star. Yes, it matters how they treat Buxton regardless of his future fame.

     

    And if he pulls off that MVP year, that extra year of "control" means having to pay more to keep him. Salaries in the MLB go up drastically each and every year. Unless they don't want to keep him regardless of how well he performs?

     

    Morality is fine - up to a point. Think Joe Mauer, he's earned it.  Buxton, not hardly. 

     

    I started this post thinking that its ok to not bring Buxton up in September, but then changed my mind when other posters talked about extra at bats in Sept, etc.  But when they didn't bring him up I was ok Mr. Buxton, use this as motivation, come out in April smokin.  Show the Twins they screwed up!!!! I'm from Missouri. show me!!!!!

     

    I wouldn't bet $100 that he'll be hitting 300 on May 1st!!!

     

    Talking about morality, how many players leave their teams every year via free agency???   They go after the big bucks, they go after a championship, they go to play closer to home, or all of the above.  And you want to preach morality, about some team keeping a player off their roster for 30 days???!!

     

    Pfffft!!

    laloesch

    laloesch 1,855

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    He was hitting .385 since activated in August. It's Buck's job. Cave is at best a corner outfielder. Buck is the best defensive center fielder in all of baseball.

     

    Like i said CONSISTENCYYYYY.....2017 he hit .147 in March / April, .254 in May, .184 in June, .387 July (10 games), .324 in August (great month), .270 in Sept. / Oct. 2018 In April/March .192 and May .122.

     

    Need to see consistency, until then Cave.

    jokin

    jokin 4,237

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

     

    The guy can barely hit .200 and you want him to take over Cave's starting job to finish the season?  okayyyy...... 

     

    Nope, not OK.

     

    I've repeatedly stated that I'm perfectly satisfied in the Twins FO decision in shutting him down, making certain he's 100% healthy, wiping the slate clean and spending the offseason by preventative"prehabbing" and building more muscle mass, while also focusing on his glaring plate deficiencies.

     

    You've yet to address the points made:

    -that the Twins can't start 2019 with an all-LH-hitting OF

    -that Cave threatens Kepler more than Buxton

    -that Buxton has demonstrated a much higher ceiling than Cave that is worth the time and effort to play out further>>>> look no further than Aaron Hicks for a horrendous example of high-ceiling prospect FO impatience.

    ewen21

    ewen21 1,439

  • Verified Member

    • Posted (edited)

    The idea that the Twins present a heinous example of holding a guy back due to service time considerations is absurd. They said it was a factor and they really didn't need to do that.

     

    The players union in baseball is probably the strongest union in America. Buxton doesn't have a pot to P in if he's going to file a grievance. He hit .156 and had a variety of ailments he's been nursing all year. He didn't even do well in Rochester until he strung four multi-hit games together. Even with that, and with a small number of at bats there, he barely pushed his average over .270

     

    This doesn't scream PROMOTION to me. Yet I see a lot of people up in arms about this and there is even a discussion about "morality" in here. I have no idea where that fits in to this issue.

    Edited by ewen21
    Squirrel

    Squirrel 42,957

  • Community Moderator

    • Posted

     

    so now you are a mind reader?   I don't condescend to know what they think, but they would be really blind, deaf and dumb if they didn't KNOW he is the most talented Twin of all.... 4 tools are solid but hitting for average needs work.  But he was recognized as the best defensive player in all of baseball, at any position.  I think they KNOW that.

     

    Yeah, i read minds and practice telekinesis.....rolls eyes

     

    MODERATOR WARNING:

    Knock it off. You are making your posts personal towards one another. Stop bickering.

     

    And if you don't want to respond to someone's post, don't respond to it.

    jkcarew

    jkcarew 8,314

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    I heard a rumor that Carlos Correa is going to walk when he hits free agency in 2022 because the Astros took the immoral/disrespectful/unnecessary/deplorable/legal-but-still-really-icky action of exercising their leverage by only offering a $4.2M bonus to sign Correa out of Puerto Rico as the top pick.  He's ticked that the guy picked AFTER him got $6M to sign with the Twins.  

    Otto von Ballpark

    Otto von Ballpark 20,382

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

     

    I heard a rumor that Carlos Correa is going to walk when he hits free agency in 2022 because the Astros took the immoral/disrespectful/unnecessary/deplorable/legal-but-still-really-icky action of exercising their leverage by only offering a $4.2M bonus to sign Correa out of Puerto Rico as the top pick.  He's ticked that the guy picked AFTER him got $6M to sign with the Twins.  

    This must be an attempt at a joke? Otherwise it's bad info. Correa agreed to that bonus before the Astros drafted him. The Astros probably wouldn't have drafted him 1-1 if he had demanded a significantly higher bonus. It's not even remotely analogous to the Buxton situation.

     

    Correa is playing year-to-year with an eye towards free agency, like a lot of players do, but it has nothing to do with his 2012 draft bonus.

    jkcarew

    jkcarew 8,314

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

     

    This must be an attempt at a joke? Otherwise it's bad info. Correa agreed to that bonus before the Astros drafted him. The Astros probably wouldn't have drafted him 1-1 if he had demanded a significantly higher bonus. It's not even remotely analogous to the Buxton situation.

     

    Correa is playing year-to-year with an eye towards free agency, like a lot of players do, but it has nothing to do with his 2012 draft bonus.

    Tongue-in-cheek jab at those that are obsessing on how Buxton will react to this down the road.  He won't.  (If he becomes the player we all hope he becomes)...he'll end up going to a team that offers the best package of $ and winning.  Period.

    Otto von Ballpark

    Otto von Ballpark 20,382

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted (edited)

     

    Tongue-in-cheek jab at those that are obsessing on how Buxton will react to this down the road.  He won't.  (If he becomes the player we all hope he becomes)...he'll end up going to a team that offers the best package of $ and winning.  Period.

    I agree that I don't think it will be a huge issue down the road, but it's got the potential to linger for a bit. It's not even ultimately about the money (which renders the Correa joke irrelevant). Seems to be that the front office said his bat needs to warm up at AAA before he would be recalled, and by all accounts Buxton worked hard to get to that point -- but then the front office suddenly changed the requirements for his recall on Sep. 1. They are totally within their rights to do that, it might even be the smart course of action for the franchise -- but it's also their job to communicate these things better. It's not surprising that Buxton and other players would be frustrated by this, as well as fans.

    Edited by spycake


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