Stephen Drew

[jokin]

Will the Twins take Trea Turner to fix the shortstop position ultimately?

 

Bad strategy going into the draft, UNLESS, Turner is the BPA. (Levi Michael was a huge 1st round, "draft for need" bust).

[oldguy10]

What if Turner is available in the second round? And would he likely be passed over by everyone the first time around?

[The Wise One]

Nothing like that, at all. This is liking a similar, but younger, Taxi Squad QB over the incumbent third-string QB.

Huh? Didn't the term Taxi Squad go away with disco? Florimon play, third string qb's do not. Some people on this board would appear to think that Escobar can play at a major league level.

[jokin]

Huh? Didn't the term Taxi Squad go away with disco? Florimon play, third string qb's do not.

 

Some people on this board would appear to think that Escobar can play at a major league level.

 

On Escobar, I'm one of them, given the low-level options that the Twins are currently throwing out there.

 

And just because Florimon is playing, doesn't mean he should be playing, there's a reason why he's scuffled through an 8 year professional career with a major league .602 OPS.

[diehardtwinsfan]

What if Turner is available in the second round? And would he likely be passed over by everyone the first time around?

 

He's considered top 5 talent right now, so if he's available in the 2nd, something happened to make him drop considerably... and that far, it's most likely injury. Personally, I'm not high on him. His main game is speed, which is something that tends to go away quickly. I'd rather have Kolek... All that could change by June though.

[The Wise One]

On Escobar, I'm one of them, given the low-level options that the Twins are currently throwing out there.

 

And just because Florimon is playing, doesn't mean he should be playing, there's a reason why he's scuffled through an 8 year professional career with a major league .602 OPS.

Only one full season at the major league level, players have improved over time. Think Fredir Patek who became an All Star. Ceiling still would be a .700 OPS. Not great but Mark Belanger played years with a bad bat. It depends on what the team wants out of a SS.

Not Escobar's but a career .662 OPS is viewed as desirable? That is the part I do not get.

[DaveW]

Only one full season at the major league level, players have improved over time. Think Fredir Patek who became an All Star. Ceiling still would be a .700 OPS. Not great but Mark Belanger played years with a bad bat. It depends on what the team wants out of a SS.

Not Escobar's but a career .662 OPS is viewed as desirable? That is the part I do not get.

.700 is not his ceiling, he hasn't had a .700 OPS since A ball. Is it possible? Sure, anything is possible. But by that logic we should keep every pitcher around with a career 5.00 ERA because one time that turned into RA Dickey.

[The Wise One]

.700 is not his ceiling, he hasn't had a .700 OPS since A ball. Is it possible? Sure, anything is possible. But by that logic we should keep every pitcher around with a career 5.00 ERA because one time that turned into RA Dickey.

OOPS, meant less than .700 OPS. Other than Drew, every other SS mentioned is in about the same range for hitting ability. You replace what you don't like with much the same. Change for the sake of change to say you did something is something I don't see as valuable. To me it appears there is a clamor for change jsut to change.

[DaveW]

OOPS, meant less than .700 OPS. Other than Drew, every other SS mentioned is in about the same range for hitting ability. You replace what you don't like with much the same. Change for the sake of change to say you did something is something I don't see as valuable. To me it appears there is a clamor for change jsut to change.

 

That's why I am very much for signing Drew!

[ashbury]

.700 is not his ceiling, he hasn't had a .700 OPS since A ball.

 

Yes, I'm going to hold a .657 OPS at AAA against a player forever. Compiled at age 22.

[Guest USAFChief]

Yes, I'm going to hold a .657 OPS at AAA against a player forever. Compiled at age 22.

Escobar does have over 1000 PAs above A ball though, and hasn't put up a .700 OPS in either AA or AAA. And he will be 25 this season.

 

Also to be fair, he OPSd .880 for Rochester last yr in almost 200 PAs.

 

I'm not confident he can handle SS every day in the big leagues though, so there's that, too.

[DaveW]

Yes, I'm going to hold a .657 OPS at AAA against a player forever. Compiled at age 22.

I was talking about Florimon FYI.

 

But I'm not keen on Escobar as well, I don't think either guy is anything more then org filler and injury replacements (or mayyybeee UTIL guys) counting on either guy to start a significant amount of games for you is a recipe for disaster. (and I actually like Florimon as a player, he just shouldn't be a starter. He is nice insurance at AAA and as a UTIL guy from time to time.)

 

Thus why I am all about bringing in a legit SS like Drew, I think the notion that Escobar/Florimon can hold it down until Santana is ready (who is still far away himself) is a bad plan. For the most part, this team has some solid to nice depth at every other position either in the majors or a yearish away (Buxton, Sano, Rosario, Hicks, etc) SS seems like the obvious place to spend money/make a trade.

[ashbury]

I was talking about Florimon FYI.

 

Oh. Never mind then. I might complain that the tangent had evolved with unclear reference to which player was being discussed, except I left it unsaid too.

[jokin]

Only one full season at the major league level, players have improved over time. Think Fredir Patek who became an All Star. Ceiling still would be a .700 OPS. Not great but Mark Belanger played years with a bad bat. It depends on what the team wants out of a SS.

Not Escobar's but a career .662 OPS is viewed as desirable? That is the part I do not get.

 

Freddie Patek? Patek was called up to the majors after 2 minor league seasons and stuck....when MLB was only a 20-team league... and when it was easier and commonplace to slot a good-field/no hit player in your lineup. By contrast, Florimon generally floundered at the plate for 7 years in the minors (actually 9 years, as he signed in 2004 with the O's) before getting his gig with the Twins, based on being picked up on the waiver wire, on a team with a severe need for more production, both now and into the forseeable future.

 

Sorry, .700 OPS is simply not Florimon's ceiling, even in his or someone's wildly optimistic dreamscape. Let me reiterate what I've stated previously, he's not a typical "rookie" prospect due to grow into his job......SS traditionally enter their decline phase at Florimon's current age. His next 5 years of projection barely or rarely crack .600 OPS.

 

Escobar isn't great, and not viewed as "desirable" by me, just a possibly better alternative from the existing (very lackluster) options, given his younger age, and his 5-year projections show an OPS in the .655 OPS range- he'd be not quite as good at SS, but better overall value as a utility option.

[The Wise One]

try reading aall of the comments, I said oops to Dave. I would agree that Escobar is a better option as a utility player than Emilio from KC

[Willihammer]

Jose Iglesias has some mysterious shin injury, expected to miss most of 2014. Tigers rumored to be pursuing Drew now

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/report-jose-iglesias-miss-significant-time-shin-injury-002837578--mlb.html

[Physics Guy]

Jose Iglesias has some mysterious shin injury, expected to miss most of 2014. Tigers rumored to be pursuing Drew now

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/report-jose-iglesias-miss-significant-time-shin-injury-002837578--mlb.html

 

I just read about Iglesias and instantly thought off Drew. He may still cash in this offseason.

[jokin]

I just read about Iglesias and instantly thought off Drew. He may still cash in this offseason.

 

I stand by my prediction. All 3 of the last 3 FAs will make out as well, or better than, the original QO.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I stand by my prediction. All 3 of the last 3 FAs will make out as well, or better than, the original QO.

 

I don't see that happening for Morales. He could remain unsigned or get a Nelson Cruz type deal.

[Major League Ready]

I think the Twins feel like Santana could be ready by next year. The Twins will not contend until at least 2016. One WAR cost $7M on the FA market so contention is not going to happen until the next wave is productive. It would take an incremental $175M+/year to contend via free agency and that's after whatever they spent this year.

 

In that context, Santana gets a shot next year. If he gets it together the 2016 version of Santana is probably as good or perhaps better than the 2016 version of Drew. Sanatana also offers a solution beyond 2017 and I like the odds of the 2017 Snatana being better than the 2017 Drew.. We also gain the 46th pick plus whatever we get for Florimon. We might even be able to package Florimon and another asset to a team needing salary relief and get a very good player. Then, there is the roughly $10M/yr that could go toward a true #1 which right now is the biggest obstacle between this team an contention.

 

Now, IF Drew stays healthy you MIGHT be able to trade him when Sanata is ready but it is not hard to see why the Twins do not take on this risk at this stage in the development of a contender if Drew is holding out for three years. One year also does not make sense. Two, it depends on how you value 2-4 wins over the next couple years vs building a contender.

[Marta Shearing]

I'm afraid if Santana was going to amount to anything, it would have happened by now. Escobar 2 with a slightly better stick.

[ashbury]

I'm afraid if Santana was going to amount to anything, it would have happened by now.

 

You're ready to write off a player who just turned 23 in the off-season?

[LaBombo]

You're ready to write off a player who just turned 23 in the off-season?

Guess we can throw in the towel on Hicks. And at least a dozen other prospects. But hey, it'll make it a bit easier to keep track of the minors.

[ashbury]

And just to be clear, as Riverbrian reminds me in another thread, I was a terrible player at age 23, likewise at 14 and 19 and 26 and 30, ditto now at age fifty-mumble-mumble - it would have been a waste of anyone's time to have me in a minor league system at age 23 or any age.

 

I'm not saying that age by itself makes a prospect worthwhile; you want to see progress too.

 

Looking at Santana's minor league hitting record, I'm seeing progress. I don't know how to judge his defense from afar; maybe someone up close sees a red flag there that says give up, but that's not what I'm reading.

[old nurse]

And just to be clear, as Riverbrian reminds me in another thread, I was a terrible player at age 23, likewise at 14 and 19 and 26 and 30, ditto now at age fifty-mumble-mumble - it would have been a waste of anyone's time to have me in a minor league system at age 23 or any age.

 

I'm not saying that age by itself makes a prospect worthwhile; you want to see progress too.

 

Looking at Santana's minor league hitting record, I'm seeing progress. I don't know how to judge his defense from afar; maybe someone up close sees a red flag there that says give up, but that's not what I'm reading.

 

IIRC when Santana was sent down he said he was told to work on making the routine plays. I am sure that there are plenty of interpretations of that. Given that he has a lot of errorrs my guess he loses focus on the routine plays.. As the game speeds up, you can not do that.

[ashbury]

IIRC when Santana was sent down he said he was told to work on making the routine plays. I am sure that there are plenty of interpretations of that. Given that he has a lot of errorrs my guess he loses focus on the routine plays.. As the game speeds up, you can not do that.

 

What counts as a routine play also changes as you near the major league level. The comment by itself doesn't really tell me whether progress has stopped or not. I think it's already been mentioned that "routine play" was the knock on Florimon when he first arrived, and you don't hear it now, so evidently he progressed even into his mid-20s. I'll need to read something worse before I write off D. Santana.

[jorgenswest]

I was surprised to read that the Tigers have no interest in Drew.

 

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140316/SPORTS0104/303160051/0/sports0104/Free-agent-Stephen-Drew-not-savior-Tigers-thinking

 

They say they will go within the organization.

[jokin]

I was surprised to read that the Tigers have no interest in Drew.

 

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140316/SPORTS0104/303160051/0/sports0104/Free-agent-Stephen-Drew-not-savior-Tigers-thinking

 

They say they will go within the organization.

 

They are in the major process of cutting back the payroll/positioning to extend the top players. A Drew signing would go directly against that strategy. How about offering them Florimon?