Twins (Matthews) vs Tigers (Montero): 09/09/26, 12:10 PM

[Cory Engelhardt]

I really do think, for the next go-around as the Twins, defense and athleticism HAS to be the priority. It's been said so many times over and over, but there were just too many guys both this year and really the last 5-10 years who's best defensive position is DH. That can't happen anymore.

I have hope that the pieces are there to build a decent middle infield, with Culpepper at one of the SS/2B spots and Lee at 3B. But the days of having average range outfielders (at best) in a corner spot in the outfield just HAS to stop.

I know we all can have different opinions of specific players they would use to build out a team for next season (if there is one) or 2028. But I really do hope that speed and range in the outfield is more of a priority. I'd also LOVE it if the DH on any given day is someone who can play a good defensive spot and is just having an off day from the field. If that's your 1B, that works for me too, but frankly if that is Buxton next year often (if his hip is ok) that also works for me.

At least, look at the other teams in our division who are really better than us this year, and I'll even include the Royals. ALL of them are strong defensively, like top 10 in baseball defensively in both the infield and outfield. The Twins are starting to show some players up here (Culpepper, Jenkins, Keaschall and even Lewis and Lee) who all are good athletes and can run the bases. I think Clemens has a spot next year, but I'd have him as the utility option. The rest of the players who make the team next year I would hope have good range and athleticism and can run the bases at minimum. The idea of Marek Houston and his glove and his speed is appealing to me, as is Emmanuel (Manny) Rodriguez if he gets a chance.

Bell and Larnach can move on. Seem like good dudes, but the TYPE of player they are on the bases isn't one I want on the 2027 or future teams.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

5 minutes ago, Peter said:

Seems twins are more concerned about fantasy football instead of trying to win division/playoffs!!!

I can't figure why a specific individual doesn't want to try to cheer on this team.  We know the front office is dysfunctional but we still have a chance yet they want to throw in the towel.  

[HarmonK03]

5 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/latest-twins-rumors-prove-why-170005255.html

@HarmonK03    

And you still don't know whose decision it was.  I look at history and Falvey was more inclined to have a veteran regardless of ability on the roster.  The times that I remember him calling up guys was when they had no choice, he rarely if ever forced the issue.  And Zoll is following the same playbook.  So to say Falvey wanted to rebuild, I have a hard time buying it.

 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

2 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

I really do think, for the next go-around as the Twins, defense and athleticism HAS to be the priority. It's been said so many times over and over, but there were just too many guys both this year and really the last 5-10 years who's best defensive position is DH. That can't happen anymore.

I have hope that the pieces are there to build a decent middle infield, with Culpepper at one of the SS/2B spots and Lee at 3B. But the days of having average range outfielders (at best) in a corner spot in the outfield just HAS to stop.

I know we all can have different opinions of specific players they would use to build out a team for next season (if there is one) or 2028. But I really do hope that speed and range in the outfield is more of a priority. I'd also LOVE it if the DH on any given day is someone who can play a good defensive spot and is just having an off day from the field. If that's your 1B, that works for me too, but frankly if that is Buxton next year often (if his hip is ok) that also works for me.

At least, look at the other teams in our division who are really better than us this year, and I'll even include the Royals. ALL of them are strong defensively, like top 10 in baseball defensively in both the infield and outfield. The Twins are starting to show some players up here (Culpepper, Jenkins, Keaschall and even Lewis and Lee) who all are good athletes and can run the bases. I think Clemens has a spot next year, but I'd have him as the utility option. The rest of the players who make the team next year I would hope have good range and athleticism and can run the bases at minimum. The idea of Marek Houston and his glove and his speed is appealing to me, as is Emmanuel (Manny) Rodriguez if he gets a chance.

Bell and Larnach can move on. Seem like good dudes, but the TYPE of player they are on the bases isn't one I want on the 2027 or future teams.

Those players can move on after the season.  But don't they give us the best chance to win now?  We are still in the playoff hunt last I checked.  I am all for better defensive play and more professional at bats.  I do think that is the one thing we do underestimate with Bell.  He brings some leadership and a solid approach that he can teach the young players that extends more to just the WAR that he can provide the team.  

[Road trip]

14 minutes ago, MeleMouth said:

This is wrong. For example, FanGraphs had Larnach rated 12th among prospects for the 2018 draft.

The Twins drafted him 20th. 14 of the players drafted before him have less bWAR.

He was regularly in the Top 100 prospects by many raters.

That is all correct.  It was a pretty weak draft.  I can't fault the Twins for taking him.

But regardless of when drafted, generating 4 BWAR in 6 seasons is an outfielder that you have to move on from when he gets expensive.  1 WAR/year outfielders grow on trees.  Larnach is basically Kepler's offense, minus HR power, without Kepler's good defense and base running.

[Cory Engelhardt]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

Those players can move on after the season.  But don't they give us the best chance to win now?  We are still in the playoff hunt last I checked.  I am all for better defensive play and more professional at bats.  I do think that is the one thing we do underestimate with Bell.  He brings some leadership and a solid approach that he can teach the young players that extends more to just the WAR that he can provide the team.  

Yes, for today I am fine with Bell. Even for the rest of the season. My complaint more is about general roster building and what I would want for the next iteration of the team. 

I also would have Rodriguez up here a week ago, and I would have dealt Larnach at the deadline for whatever the best offer was. I know that sounds like hindsight now, but it made too much sense then. Having BOTH Larnach AND Bell on the team, when really only one should be starting, didn't make sense to me.

[MeleMouth]

Just now, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

Those players can move on after the season.  But don't they give us the best chance to win now?  We are still in the playoff hunt last I checked.  I am all for better defensive play and more professional at bats.  I do think that is the one thing we do underestimate with Bell.  He brings some leadership and a solid approach that he can teach the young players that extends more to just the WAR that he can provide the team.  

Lemme ask you a hypothetical. You're at the World Series of Poker and you are down to about a 25% chance of winning and several other people have much greater odds than you. Many of them also are just plain better players at this point in your gambling career. But change the rules: instead of a one-time buy-in, you have to pay more to stay in the game once you're at 25%. Also, if you don't want to pay more to stay in the game, you have the choice to trade in your chips in a way that will give you more chips for the next tournament. Which would you choose?

[MeleMouth]

4 minutes ago, Road trip said:

That is all correct.  It was a pretty weak draft.  I can't fault the Twins for taking him.

But regardless of when drafted, generating 4 BWAR in 6 seasons is an outfielder that you have to move on from when he gets expensive.  1 WAR/year outfielders grow on trees.  Larnach is basically Kepler's offense, minus HR power, without Kepler's good defense and base running.

First you said Falvey made a mistake to draft Larnach in the first round (you got his draft # wrong), because he was at best a second-round pick, but now you say you "can't fault the Twins for taking him."

I'm good with complaints based in reason and fact, but this seems like you're just throwing mud against the wall to see what sticks.

[Cory Engelhardt]

3 minutes ago, MeleMouth said:

Lemme ask you a hypothetical. You're at the World Series of Poker and you are down to about a 25% chance of winning and several other people have much greater odds than you. Many of them also are just plain better players at this point in your gambling career. But change the rules: instead of a one-time buy-in, you have to pay more to stay in the game once you're at 25%. Also, if you don't want to pay more to stay in the game, you have the choice to trade in your chips in a way that will give you more chips for the next tournament. Which would you choose?

Does one of those ways give you a more athletic and better defensive chance?

But for poker, I would play the hand I'm dealt and just go for it as best as possible. I don't have a ton of money so whenever I have gone to the casino, I've usually just brought a certain amount and then when it's done, it's done. 

That doesn't really answer your question though.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

7 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Yes, for today I am fine with Bell. Even for the rest of the season. My complaint more is about general roster building and what I would want for the next iteration of the team. 

I also would have Rodriguez up here a week ago, and I would have dealt Larnach at the deadline for whatever the best offer was. I know that sounds like hindsight now, but it made too much sense then. Having BOTH Larnach AND Bell on the team, when really only one should be starting, didn't make sense to me.

I can agree with that Corey.  100%.  For all the things I disagree with what Tom and Zoll have done with some of their assets,  I can't fault them for improving the team morale and ensuring we did not create a losing culture.  Yes they are below .500 but they come to battle everyday.  I want an improved lineup in the next wave and more athleticism which I think is on the one.  But we will still have some marginal athletes, but potentially with better hit tools than we have had.  Rodriguez, Mendez and Gonzalez all bring or more dynamic offensive bat than what we have had.  I am fine with a bat first player if it is significantly better than average if it comes with average defense.   I don't agree with throwing in the towel now which is what Harmon has advocated all thread.  

[mrmpls]

5-2    6th inning      

[Cory Engelhardt]

Just now, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

I can agree with that Corey.  100%.  For all the things I disagree with what Tom and Zoll have done with some of their assets,  I can't fault them for improving the team morale and ensuring we did not create a losing culture.  Yes they are below .500 but they come to battle everyday.  I want an improved lineup in the next wave and more athleticism which I think is on the one.  But we will still have some marginal athletes, but potentially with better hit tools than we have had.  Rodriguez, Mendez and Gonzalez all bring or more dynamic offensive bat than what we have had.  I am fine with a bat first player if it is significantly better than average if it comes with average defense.  

I'm fairly certain that Rodriguez is a strong athlete and can handle defense even in CF. I am not certain at all that either Mendez or Gonzalez's best defensive position in the majors isn't DH, so I have a hard time planning on either of them. I'm not even certain Gonzalez or Mendez bring a more dynamic bat. 

IF I am Tom, I am going after athletes, and I'd try to bring in 1-2 legitimate bats either through trade or free agency. I don't know that I even care if they are a 40 homerun hitter, but if they can be someone who can hold down a defensive spot and have a good on base percentage and run the bases well, then you have me sold.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

Well we are down in the 6th can we get an elusive come back win?  

[HarmonK03]

1 minute ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

IF I am Tom, I am going after athletes, and I'd try to bring in 1-2 legitimate bats either through trade or free agency. I don't know that I even care if they are a 40 homerun hitter, but if they can be someone who can hold down a defensive spot and have a good on base percentage and run the bases well, then you have me sold.

That should not be Tom's role he needs to bring in an experienced baseball leader and let him come up with a plan and present it to him at a macro level.  Then tell him to go execute the plan and build a sustainable winner.  Pohlad knows nothing about evaluating players he needs someone to do that and get out of the way.

[Cory Engelhardt]

1 minute ago, HarmonK03 said:

That should not be Tom's role he needs to bring in an experienced baseball leader and let him come up with a plan and present it to him at a macro level.  Then tell him to go execute the plan and build a sustainable winner.  Pohlad knows nothing about evaluating players he needs someone to do that and get out of the way.

I agree. I meant more, Tom in terms of being the guy with the purse strings should allow the baseball leader to focus in that way. Agreed

[mrmpls]

nice pick Cody ,  throw was off . nice play

[MeleMouth]

4 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

I'm fairly certain that Rodriguez is a strong athlete and can handle defense even in CF. I am not certain at all that either Mendez or Gonzalez's best defensive position in the majors isn't DH, so I have a hard time planning on either of them. I'm not even certain Gonzalez or Mendez bring a more dynamic bat. 

IF I am Tom, I am going after athletes, and I'd try to bring in 1-2 legitimate bats either through trade or free agency. I don't know that I even care if they are a 40 homerun hitter, but if they can be someone who can hold down a defensive spot and have a good on base percentage and run the bases well, then you have me sold.

If I am Tom, I am doing what I can to get the best baseball ops team I can and that I support them to the best of my ability, and I'm not going to be Roger Headrick wearing coach's shorts and carrying a stopwatch and clipboard on the floor of the combine.

[mrmpls]

5-2   top of 7

[Hunter4848]

13 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

I can agree with that Corey.  100%.  For all the things I disagree with what Tom and Zoll have done with some of their assets,  I can't fault them for improving the team morale and ensuring we did not create a losing culture.  Yes they are below .500 but they come to battle everyday.  I want an improved lineup in the next wave and more athleticism which I think is on the one.  But we will still have some marginal athletes, but potentially with better hit tools than we have had.  Rodriguez, Mendez and Gonzalez all bring or more dynamic offensive bat than what we have had.  I am fine with a bat first player if it is significantly better than average if it comes with average defense.   I don't agree with throwing in the towel now which is what Harmon has advocated all thread.  

Yay!!! A team that "battles" everyday!!

Talk about pathetic expectations...

[thelanges5]

3 hit, 2 of them solo HRs. Most of the offense has the day off. Glad I checked in. 

[Cory Engelhardt]

2 minutes ago, Hunter4848 said:

Yay!!! A team that "battles" everyday!!

Talk about pathetic expectations...

I mean, they aren't playing well and they won't make the playoffs. But you don't have any part of you that appreciates effort given? Why is that worth turning your nose up to?

[MeleMouth]

2 minutes ago, Hunter4848 said:

Yay!!! A team that "battles" everyday!!

Talk about pathetic expectations...

Where have you gone, Matt Tolbert? A fanbase turns its lonely eyes to you, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Hunter4848]

Just now, Cory Engelhardt said:

I mean, they aren't playing well and they won't make the playoffs. But you don't have any part of you that appreciates effort given? Why is that worth turning your nose up to?

Because I expect more than the absolute bare minimum...

I know a crazy concept for most Twins fans

[LastOnePicked]

4 minutes ago, Hunter4848 said:

I can't fault them for improving the team morale and ensuring we did not create a losing culture.

This doesn't mean anything, though. The White Sox don't seem to have created a "losing culture." They seem to have remade themselves into an AL Central contender. Maybe more.

[Road trip]

24 minutes ago, MeleMouth said:

First you said Falvey made a mistake to draft Larnach in the first round (you got his draft # wrong), because he was at best a second-round pick, but now you say you "can't fault the Twins for taking him."

I'm good with complaints based in reason and fact, but this seems like you're just throwing mud against the wall to see what sticks.

You are replying to the wrong person.  I haven't been in the thread on Larnach until now..   I am certainly on the "move on from Larnach" train though. 

[djvang]

Look where that pitch is. This should be his bobblehead.

[Cory Engelhardt]

2 minutes ago, Hunter4848 said:

Because I expect more than the absolute bare minimum...

I know a crazy concept for most Twins fans

I think we all do. I guess I'm more of an optimist. I'm not happy with the win/loss record for basically any of the seasons in the last 6. But I also see the players trying and not quitting right now compared to the 2025 season. So that tells me the coaching staff is preparing them to try, which is an improvement.

Still need to have better results. But both things can be true.

[LastOnePicked]

5 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

I mean, they aren't playing well and they won't make the playoffs. But you don't have any part of you that appreciates effort given?

If they aren't playing well, how are you judging the effort?

[DH_11]

I hope they don’t intend to bring Jenkins back next year. This guy is nowhere near ready for Major league baseball. I have a feeling unless he’s shortens his swing He’s gonna be a minor league All-Star like crash Davis. This guy is not big league material.

[LastOnePicked]

2 minutes ago, DH_11 said:

I hope they don’t intend to bring Jenkins back next year. This guy is nowhere near ready for Major league baseball. I have a feeling unless he’s shortens his swing He’s gonna be a minor league All-Star like crash Davis. This guy is not big league material.

Not even a Twins crank like myself can hit that level of dissatisfaction.

It's okay. He'll likely be alright. Probably even better than alright.