Berardino: For Twins' Terry Ryan, the July Nightmare Scenario is Repeating

[Thrylos]

Trading Jim Thome was done as a favor to Thome, and frankly the Twins had no reason to be giving at bats to him at that point.

 

The point is that Thome was not traded (in a trade you get something in return). He was given away. I have no problem with trading Thome for something. But he did not...

[The Wise One]

I'm certainly not opposed to trading veterans for highly ranked prospects. But being in a team's top 10 doesn't necessarily make you a good prospect- think about who was in the Twins' top 10 a few years ago. Matt Moses...Adam Johnson...

 

The reporter asked Ryan for a retrospective look at his best trades. In retrospect, we got nothing. They may have seemed like a good bet at the time, but they certainly didn't work out. Not one. When we traded Aguilera the second time, we got Lohse. That's a vastly better trade than any of these (even if I do risk hurting Coomer's feelings).

 

Saving the Pohlads money has never been a high priority of mine. I don't blame them for wanting more, but I really don't see cutting payroll as a benefit to the team itself unless the money is spent to improve somewhere else on the field. And it didn't keep Carl from offering to contract the team a few years later.

 

I am well aware of what rankings mean. If you read jokin's post he would have you believe the Twins took in dog poop for star players. From said organizations, Ryan may have received their better players from the organization.

A concept of best trade appears to be very lost on the readers here. To Ryan the best trade is maybe what the most he got out of he could for a player. Erickson's value was at a low as it could be as someone speculated. Someone else speculated that no one else may have really wanted Erickson as he was to also be a free agent. Ryan probably had to do a lot of work selling that one. That why to him it was his best July trade. A steal like Kielty for Stewart was easy.

[TheLeviathan]

What are the odds we can trade Willingham? would he make it far enough in waivers for a team "in the hunt" like the Yankees or someone to put a claim on him? Or would teams like the Astros and other bottom feeders put a claim in to block everyone?

 

Is there even a time table for his return yet?

[The Wise One]

The point is that Thome was not traded (in a trade you get something in return). He was given away. I have no problem with trading Thome for something. But he did not...

A 40 year old player that father time finally caught up to is not in high demand. The Twins did receive cash. About what you would get to pay for 1/2 of a rule 5 player. That would be about right for a trade.

[jokin]

I am well aware of what rankings mean. If you read jokin's post he would have you believe the Twins took in dog poop for star players. From said organizations, Ryan may have received their better players from the organization.

A concept of best trade appears to be very lost on the readers here. To Ryan the best trade is maybe what the most he got out of he could for a player. Erickson's value was at a low as it could be as someone speculated. Someone else speculated that no one else may have really wanted Erickson as he was to also be a free agent. Ryan probably had to do a lot of work selling that one. That why to him it was his best July trade. A steal like Kielty for Stewart was easy.

 

I said that, except it wasn't speculation. His 1995 numbers with the Twins were his career low to that point.

 

It was the Orioles that got the steal in that deal. He was so "unwanted", they quickly re-upped him well into the 21st Century.

[Brock Beauchamp]

To Ryan the best trade is maybe what the most he got out of he could for a player. Erickson's value was at a low as it could be as someone speculated. Someone else speculated that no one else may have really wanted Erickson as he was to also be a free agent. Ryan probably had to do a lot of work selling that one. That why to him it was his best July trade.

 

This. Sometimes, the work you're most proud of completing is not your "best work" from an outside perspective. It was the hardest work, the job where you pulled off something you didn't think possible. From the outside, it might garner a "sheeeeesh, that was ugly" reaction. From the inside, it was "holy crap, it was ugly but damn, we pulled it off".

 

A steal like Kielty for Stewart was easy.

 

I wouldn't go quite that far. It's an accomplishment every time you improve your MLB team without giving up much in return.

[jokin]

If you read jokin's post he would have you believe the Twins took in dog poop for star players.

 

That's most certinaly not what I said.

 

What I said was ...actually.... "what I said", and those facts that I posted are what I would have you believe is what I actually said.

[jokin]

The point is that Thome was not traded (in a trade you get something in return). He was given away. I have no problem with trading Thome for something. But he did not...

 

Clearly, Thome still had value, as the Phillies flipped him the next year for 2 legitimate prospects, a young pitcher and catcher.

[jokin]

Frankie Rodriguez was rated at 39 best baseball prospect at that time. The Red Sox also sent JJ Johnson who was a top 10 prospect in their system at one time. Hansell and Parra were both in the 10 ten prospects for the Dodgers. Bartee who was received as TPTBNL in the Erickson trade was rated as the 8th best prospect in the Oriole at that time. Would the lesson from those trades be then don't trade your veterans for highly ranked prospects?

 

I think the lesson would be don't trade proven starting pitchers at their lowest value ever for 2 very speculative flyers.

[jokin]

I think it's safe to say that Ryan has learned a couple of things since the Rodriguez trade that occurred nearly two decades ago.

 

That was kind-of the point of the article, and the head-sratching by Berardino. Has Ryan learned enough in 18 years to do better than what Ryan himself regards as still his most satisfying mid-season trade from all those years ago in 1995- which he fails to point out, solved absolutely nothing in making the 1996 (and beyond) ballclub better.

[nicksaviking]

 

Sometimes, life it about more than just squeezing the world for all it will give.

 

Which is what many of us critical of Ryan and the ownership say, yet we get pounded by those who say that it's a business and they can make as much damn money as they want. Did you not read the reason why Ryan was most proud of the Erickson trade? You can't defend both trades with the same logic.

[Brock Beauchamp]

That was kind-of the point of the article, and the head-sratching by Berardino. Has Ryan learned enough in 18 years to do better than what Ryan himself regards as still his most satisfying mid-season trade from all those years ago in 1995- which he fails to point out, solved absolutely nothing in making the 1996 (and beyond) ballclub better.

 

It depends on perspective. Were Bernadino to ask "What do you think was the trade that netted the largest gain for the franchise?", I'm about 99% certain that Ryan would not mention the Erickson trade.

 

Sometimes, the hardest things and the things someone are most proud of are not the "best" things from an outsider's perspective.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Which is what many of us critical of Ryan and the ownership say, yet we get pounded by those who say that it's a business and they can make as much damn money as they want. Did you not read the reason why Ryan was most proud of the Erickson trade? You can't defend both trades with the same logic.

 

Why connection do the trades have with one another? I really doubt that Ryan woke up one morning and said "I sure would like to save my boss some money so I'm going to trade Scott Erickson". He was under orders to do something difficult and accomplished that goal. What does that have to do with Thome?

[nicksaviking]

This. Sometimes, the work you're most proud of completing is not your "best work" from an outside perspective. It was the hardest work, the job where you pulled off something you didn't think possible. From the outside, it might garner a "sheeeeesh, that was ugly" reaction. From the inside, it was "holy crap, it was ugly but damn, we pulled it off".

 

This is another issue those critical of Ryan and the front office get pounded on. Ryan is most proud of something negative he dropped from the team as opposed to a trade where he added something positive. Yet his glass-half-empty viewpoint is getting defend by those who criticize others for having a glass-half-empty viewpoint regarding Ryan himself.

[nicksaviking]

Why connection do the trades have with one another? I really doubt that Ryan woke up one morning and said "I sure would like to save my boss some money so I'm going to trade Scott Erickson". He was under orders to do something difficult and accomplished that goal. What does that have to do with Thome?

 

I was ok with the Thome gesture, but you were the one who said life was about more than squeezing every last dime out of a deal, something that Ryan clearly doesn't agree with judging by this article. In any case, Bill Smith traded Thome, not Ryan.

[Riverbrian]

I had a job interview in Baltimore about ten years ago.

 

Before I was flown out for the interview... I had a pre-interview over the phone. The Guy had a list of out of left field questions prepared and he just went down the list.

 

One of the questions I was asked was: What is the stupidest thing I have ever done?

 

He was just trying to get an idea about my personality before paying the airline and hotel costs to bring me to Baltimore.

 

I have done hundreds of stupid things that would have painted me as a good guy... interesting and employable. But I hadn't thought about those things in quite some time and they were out of my immediate memory.

 

My mind immediately went to the really stupid things that I would rather not let anyone know about... On the spot... I had to roll past all of those things in my mind until something came into my head. In the end... I gave a wimpy little answer and uninteresting story.

 

After the phone call was over... I spent the rest of the day saying... I should have said this... or I should have said that. 20 different better ideas came into my head.

 

I was flown to Baltimore but my point is this.

 

If you answer questions off the cuff. Try not to place any weight in those off the cuff answers. Every individual is much deeper than that.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I was ok with the Thome gesture, but you were the one who said life was about more than squeezing every last dime out of a deal, something that Ryan clearly doesn't agree with judging by this article. In any case, Bill Smith traded Thome, not Ryan.

 

I can't count how many times I've been told to write code or design something by a client or a boss and said "Christ, this is an awful &^%$ing decision".

 

But I did it anyway.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I said that, except it wasn't speculation. His 1995 numbers with the Twins were his career low to that point.

 

It was the Orioles that got the steal in that deal. He was so "unwanted", they quickly re-upped him well into the 21st Century.

 

I don't remember the terms of the contract, but he only had 2 decent years for them too.

[Brock Beauchamp]

This is another issue those critical of Ryan and the front office get pounded on. Ryan is most proud of something negative he dropped from the team as opposed to a trade where he added something positive. Yet his glass-half-empty viewpoint is getting defend by those who criticize others for having a glass-half-empty viewpoint regarding Ryan himself.

 

Would you rather have him say "Well golly, Bernie. I just liked 'em all, shucks."

 

What I don't understand is why every single comment by Ryan has to be dissected to the point of exhaustion. He mentioned that he was proud of a trade that happened almost two decades ago, early in his career. Is this really our talking point for the day?

[Brock Beauchamp]

If you answer questions off the cuff. Try not to place any weight in those off the cuff answers. Every individual is much deeper than that.

 

Yes. Sometimes, an answer seems weird or half-complete when answered in 20 seconds or less. If you asked me about a work I was most proud of, I might give some oddball answer about some work I did as a teenager. Left at that, people might scratch their heads and say "What the hell is he thinking?"

 

I just don't see the point is making a big deal out of such an insignificant comment in a throw-away article.

[nicksaviking]

I can't count how many times I've been told to write code or design something by a client or a boss and said "Christ, this is an awful &^%$ing decision".

 

But I did it anyway.

 

Then if asked, I'm sure you wouldn't say that was the code you were most proud of.

[Marta Shearing]

As frustrating and insulting as Ryan's smug comments may be, he's not the problem. We have an ownership problem. Ryan is just a company man who wouldn't even have a job with a competent owner.

[nicksaviking]

Would you rather have him say "Well golly, Bernie. I just liked 'em all, shucks."

 

What I don't understand is why every single comment by Ryan has to be dissected to the point of exhaustion. He mentioned that he was proud of a trade that happened almost two decades ago, early in his career. Is this really our talking point for the day?

 

Yes because it speaks volumes! He's not most proud of a move that improved the team. He's most proud of a move that saved money. Whether the move was demanded by ownersip is moot, he's most proud of it none-the-less. If the goal is to win ball games this did nothing to advance toward those goals.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Then if asked, I'm sure you wouldn't say that was the code you were most proud of.

 

It might be. It depends on how aggravating and challenging that particular job was in the first place.

 

I think people here are confusing "I wanted to do this" versus "I was told to do a difficult job and accomplished that task".

[Beezer07]

Yes because it speaks volumes! He's not most proud of a move that improved the team. He's most proud of a move that saved money. Whether the move was demanded by ownersip is moot, he's most proud of it none-the-less. If the goal is to win ball games this did nothing to advance toward those goals.

 

I tend to take the most pride in doing something that was awful/difficult/whatever and doing it well. Can't he be proud for overcoming something that he thought was particularly challenging without us impugning the guy's character or priorities?

[Mike Sixel]

Maybe if he had made a trade for a DH, instead of having Becker and Tyner, maybe he would be proud of that. But unlike McPhail, Ryan did not ever go for it. Even under the same ownership and financial constraints. That is the point. Instead, because he did not do that, he is left with putting a million more dollars in his bosses pocket as his proudest trade. Certainly that has value, but not to the fans.

[Thrylos]

It depends on perspective. Were Bernadino to ask "What do you think was the trade that netted the largest gain for the franchise?", I'm about 99% certain that Ryan would not mention the Erickson trade.

 

Sometimes, the hardest things and the things someone are most proud of are not the "best" things from an outsider's perspective.

 

Actually I have rethought it, and by far the best deadline trade (and would had paid dividents for the Twins, if Ryan did not screw up downstream; imagine a legit DH added to the Cy Young and MVP team) was Hollins for Arias. Hands down. But I suspect that TR would not like to visit that territory...

[ThePuck]

Yes because it speaks volumes! He's not most proud of a move that improved the team. He's most proud of a move that saved money. Whether the move was demanded by ownersip is moot, he's most proud of it none-the-less. If the goal is to win ball games this did nothing to advance toward those goals.

 

At some point, some of us are going to have to realize that no matter what Ryan says or does (or doesn't do), there's going to be people who will always defend him in here. Always.

 

Some even go so far as to point to positive things he says as proof he's going to do something, while also telling us not to take his words so serious when it's something negative or unflattering. Then some go even farther to say when he outright says he'll do things he has no intention of doing, it was okay he said he would (like do everything he could to greatly improve the rotation this year)

 

At what point do one just stop trying to convince that have no intention of opening up to the possibility that sometimes he deserves to be criticized? Of course, that would cut about half the debates around here.

[Beezer07]

Of course the corollary is true: there are some people who will always criticize TR. Always.

[jokin]

I don't remember the terms of the contract, but he only had 2 decent years for them too.

 

Actually, it was 4.5 decent to good years for them.