Berardino: For Twins' Terry Ryan, the July Nightmare Scenario is Repeating

[ThePuck]

Of course the corollary is true: there are some people who will always criticize TR. Always.

 

I criticize his moves (or lack of moves, or tactic) and back other moves (like the Span and Revere trades). Plenty of people in here do the same exact thing. Very, very few who constantly defend Ryan actually criticize him on occasion.

[jokin]

Of course the corollary is true: there are some people who will always criticize TR. Always.

 

Please cite examples. There are actually very, very few on TD who could be qualified as such. If we can agree that, "very few" = "some", then I will concur with you.

[ThePuck]

Please cite examples. There are actually very, very few on TD who could be qualified as such. If we can agree that, "very few" = "some", then I will concur with you.

 

Seriously, think about it. The midseason trade he's most proud of is one that cut payroll, not the one who brought over a needed piece when we really needed it (Stewart). How anyone can defend the fact that he points to a payroll saving trade over a trade that did a very good job of improving the team? One really has to be trying very hard to keep Ryan in a good light if he/she does that.

[jokin]

Seriously, think about it. The midseason trade he's most proud of is one that cut payroll, not the one who brought over a needed piece when we really needed it (Stewart). How anyone can defend the fact that he points to a payroll saving trade over a trade that did a very good job of improving the team? One really has to be trying very hard to keep Ryan in a good light if he/she does that.

 

I'm so glad you brought that up. That Shannon Stewart trade immediately came to mind to me when I first opened up this thread this morning. I was excited at the time of the deal, like a kid getting an extra and unexpected present for his birthday. In any "off-the-cuff", "hadn't given it much thought", "caught me unprepared", "my boss has a gun to my head so I'm just following orders", throwaway quote, Shannon Freaking Stewart would more immediately come to mind to the average person as an answer to the question, 999 times out of 1000.

[Mike Sixel]

Of course the corollary is true: there are some people who will always criticize TR. Always.

 

i cannot think of one person that is true of, certainly not me or jokin or the other "negative" posters. Most of us were quite complimentary of the Of trades this winter.

[Guest USAFChief]

I'm so glad you brought that up. That Shannon Stewart trade immediately came to mind to me when I first opened up this thread this morning. I was excited at the time of the deal, like a kid getting an extra and unexpected present for his birthday. In any "off-the-cuff", "hadn't given it much thought", "caught me unprepared", "my boss has a gun to my head so I'm just following orders", throwaway quote, Shannon Freaking Stewart would more immediately come to mind to the average person as an answer to the question, 999 times out of 1000.

Or Orlando Cabrera if you want a more recent example.

 

Edit: It just occured to me that Ryan didn't make that trade.

[ThePuck]

Or Orlando Cabrera if you want a more recent example.

 

Edit: It just occured to me that Ryan didn't make that trade.

 

Cabrera wasn't a Terry Ryan trade.

[Brock Beauchamp]

At some point, some of us are going to have to realize that no matter what Ryan says or does (or doesn't do), there's going to be people who will always defend him in here. Always.

 

Some even go so far as to point to positive things he says as proof he's going to do something, while also telling us not to take his words so serious when it's something negative or unflattering. Then some go even farther to say when he outright says he'll do things he has no intention of doing, it was okay he said he would (like do everything he could to greatly improve the rotation this year)

 

At what point do one just stop trying to convince that have no intention of opening up to the possibility that sometimes he deserves to be criticized? Of course, that would cut about half the debates around here.

 

Or a third option where some of us don't come unraveled about an interview comment about a nearly 20 year old trade but instead try to judge the man upon his actions, both good and bad.

 

There are plenty of things Ryan does that deserve criticism (last February, you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who had anything pleasant to say about his free agent acquisitions). Is this really one of them? An off-the-cuff throwaway comment about a trade that happened 18 years ago?

[old nurse]

At some point, some of us are going to have to realize that no matter what Ryan says or does (or doesn't do), there's going to be people who will always defend him in here. Always.

 

.

 

Most of the time itis not defending Ryan as thinking what the person has written against Ryan is microscopically myopic and twisted and thus needs a response.

[old nurse]

Or Orlando Cabrera if you want a more recent example.

 

Edit: It just occured to me that Ryan didn't make that trade.

 

I am sure some Oakland fan crowed about what a great flip Oakland made for their free agent aquisition.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm so glad you brought that up. That Shannon Stewart trade immediately came to mind to me when I first opened up this thread this morning. I was excited at the time of the deal, like a kid getting an extra and unexpected present for his birthday. In any "off-the-cuff", "hadn't given it much thought", "caught me unprepared", "my boss has a gun to my head so I'm just following orders", throwaway quote, Shannon Freaking Stewart would more immediately come to mind to the average person as an answer to the question, 999 times out of 1000.

 

Unless you were the man who actually worked your ass off to do that trade. There's apparently something that stuck with Ryan about that trade or he wouldn't bring it up nearly 20 years later.

 

I've drawn more illustrations and coded more websites than I can count in my lifetime, some of which were for multi-billion dollar conglomerates that involved months of work. On the other hand, I've also done very small drawings and websites for local businesses.

 

My most difficult website was a sub-$1000 affair for an artist in LA. It almost reduced me to tears several times because it was so maddeningly difficult to develop and code. I nearly bailed on the project several times before deciding to stick it out.

 

If I was to line up the hundreds of websites I've coded and said to an outsider, "Pick the hardest site to create", they'd surely go for the Duracell site, one of the Polaris sites, or any number of other national/world brands I've worked with in the past. But no, the hardest site I've ever coded is a crappy little site for an artist who never even made it in the business and gave up trying less than two years after I finished the site.

 

Ask me which was hardest and I'll tell you it was that crappy little site almost every time. Ten years later, I still vividly remember the thing, more so than the vast majority of other, larger, better projects I've been involved with since that time.

 

The "average person" has a very different perspective on events than the guy who actually did the work. Whereas an outsider's only basis for "best" are results, there are moments and difficulties that we will never know about, stuff that must have really stuck in Ryan's craw to bring up nearly 20 years later. The man has made many trades, both good and bad. Some shed payroll while others acquired it. Obviously, there is something about this trade that makes it spring to mind during such a question.

 

And does this really matter? He was asked a frank question and gave an unexpected answer. To assert any kind of real meaning to this statement past "huh, must have been a hard trade to make" requires one to fill in some pretty large blanks.

[old nurse]

Thanks Brock for illustrating what I wanted to say with the second post on this thread but couldn't think of an example that would make sense to the people. Throw away comments are grabbed onto and held onto here as proof of whatever position a person wants to take. They will not change their view regardless of your eloquence.

[old nurse]

The pattern shown in this thread on deadline trades is why Ryan can't be agressive. The Twins did Thome a favor and got little in return. A year later Baltimore needed a bat off the bench. The Phillies did a little better than the Twins ( 2 players that have not progressed in the minors). Boston needed a reliever, Aggie was available. That the prospect did not work is irrelavent, Frankie was a decent prospect. The Twins wanted to dump salary, they trade Erickson and get little in return. When you don't have to trade your player and someone else wants them, your return will be much better.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I think people need to settle down and try not to read between the lines on some of these comments. The Erickson trade was different for a number of reasons.

 

1) Small market team where the owner would order trades to reduce salary.

2) A malcontent player that everyone in the league knew was a malcontent.

3) Said player wasn't exactly performing.

 

Those situations right there make it pretty difficult to pull off a trade, and Ryan was under orders to do it. You won't get much, if anything, of value in that situation, yet somehow Ryan got it. Things like that need to be taken into context. I get that Ryan is risk averse when it comes to spending money, and I get that it's to a fault. I'm not sure that is what is in play here.

[drjim]

Please cite examples. There are actually very, very few on TD who could be qualified as such. If we can agree that, "very few" = "some", then I will concur with you.

 

You realize this is true in reverse right?

[drjim]

i cannot think of one person that is true of, certainly not me or jokin or the other "negative" posters. Most of us were quite complimentary of the Of trades this winter.

 

Think harder.

[drjim]

I thought the Erickson response was fascinating myself. He was under direct orders to do something he probably thought impossible and he got it done. I can see how that would be satisfying, especially for a GM who was on the job for less than two years.

[drjim]

I also think we're burying the lede here. The players he wants to trade are the same ones that are struggling right now, which will probably make a trade that much less likely (or satifying of a return).

[Mike Sixel]

Question....is every comment throw away? Like, telling ticket buyers he was going to do what it took to get pitching? Are we to dismiss everything he says as worthless and not worth discussing? There was an article in the paper, and we are discussing it.

[Mike Sixel]

I thought the Erickson response was fascinating myself. He was under direct orders to do something he probably thought impossible and he got it done. I can see how that would be satisfying, especially for a GM who was on the job for less than two years.

 

like I said, it has value to him and the owner, bur not the customers. Would be cool, IMO, if it was more about the customers. yMMV.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Question....is every comment throw away? Like, telling ticket buyers he was going to do what it took to get pitching? Are we to dismiss everything he says as worthless and not worth discussing? There was an article in the paper, and we are discussing it.

 

I tend to ignore comments because a GM is also a PR face for the organization. They're going to spin a lot of stuff and talk fluff. I prefer to look at actions, which is why I was so angry after this past offseason. He failed to get enough pitching. Did I agree with his comments that went along with those acquisitions? No, not at all. I also didn't care about those statements... What I wanted was better pitchers and he didn't do it. I don't really care what he said to go along with those actions. The one exception is the trade market because frankly, it takes two to tango and sometimes a GMs comments can be telling about the market itself. But even those are hard to sort the fluff from the real information at times.

 

As it turned out, most of that "better" pitching hasn't actually performed much better but I still don't like the thinking that went behind the Correia acquisition (was actually pretty okay with the Pelfrey pick-up as a third move, not a second).

[Mike Sixel]

Fair enough, Brock generally I also ignore GM comments, but I found the comments to prospective ticket buyers to be pretty bad lying. I do not expect everyone to agree with that, but to me it was disturbing. Thanks for answering, btw.

[Brock Beauchamp]

like I said, it has value to him and the owner, bur not the customers. Would be cool, IMO, if it was more about the customers. yMMV.

 

The question wasn't aimed at the customers. It was aimed at Ryan himself and he gave a frank answer.

 

It's be vastly different if the question was "what trade do you think improved the franchise the most?" and he answered "Erickson for Rodriguez". That would be... Strange.