FBS Playoffs - Notre Dame is out!

[Riverbrian]

Lots of people freaking out over this and they probably have a strong reason to be freaked out... especially if you are Fighting Irish fan. 

Myself... I don't care if Notre Dame is out and as long as the G5 conferences don't have their own playoff... I'm Ok with James Madison and Tulane both getting in even if they are going to lose by 70 points in the first round. 

However... It's not a good look for the current format. 

Here are some suggestions. 

1. Create another level for the G5 conferences. Let Boise State, Western Michigan, Tulane, James Madison and their own group of teams have their own playoff. College Football is the have's and have nots. The G5's are the have nots. The FCS has a wonderful tournament every year for their own level. Give them their own title to play for. The current reward for Western Michigan is a MAC title and a bowl game against Kennesaw State. FCS and G5 are just feeder programs for the P4 schools anyway. 

In the absence of a G5 title game. I have no problem with the current format for the highest 5 rated conferences getting a playoff spot. Just remove the problem with a G5 tournament. 

2. Notre Dame needs to join a conference. I understand that Notre Dame probably has financial reasons for not joining a conference but... quit your bitching... The Notre Dame strength of schedule isn't going to match up with the Big Ten or SEC strength of schedule. Their strength of schedule probably matched up with the ACC strength of schedule and the ACC just came inches from not having a representative in the field. If you want to be an independent with that schedule so you can keep the extra income... well you didn't get an invite this year and your schedule was probably a factor.   

3. Speaking of the ACC and I will throw the Big 12 in to this group as well. I don't think the Big Ten or SEC has to worry about this but... Fix your tiebreaker system. If the committee is looking at rankings to determine who gets in and who doesn't. Duke simply can't win the tie-breaker. The highest ranked team needs to be the first tie-breaker. Duke winning the title is the reason that both Tulane and James Madison are in.

It's a 10 team playoff most likely but I sure hope Tulane or James Madison pulls off an upset or two. Giving the current rules that are in place. I have no problem with Notre Dame on the sidelines. In the end... I think Notre Dame, Alabama and Miami all have legitimate reasons to be out. 

 

[Parfigliano]

F Notre Dame.  Join a conference.

[Vanimal46]

If Notre Dame wanted to be in the playoff, then play better competition throughout the year. It doesn't matter what number of playoff teams they expand to down the road... there will always be a couple of teams upset that they didn't make it. 

IMO where the selection committee screwed up is not punishing Alabama after they got destroyed by Georgia in the SEC Championship game. The double standard is apparent when Bama stayed put, but the committee punished BYU for losing the Big 12 championship game to Texas Tech. 

[The Great Hambino]

To me, what this ultimately highlighted is the nonsensical approach of trying to use traditional tiebreakers to determine the conference championship game participants for a single-division 16-18 team conference.   The ACC ended in a 5-way tie for second place, and head-to-head/common-opponent tiebreakers are essentially useless in a scenario like that.  Duke and Miami only had two common opponents while playing in the same conference.  As a result, the team with three nonconference losses (including to UCONN - in football!) wound up sneaking in and setting off the chain of events that made the committee render their previous rankings a farce in order to apply some logic to the final standings.

Other conferences already have figured out a better method.  The Mountain West and American (I believe) have tiebreakers that go to CFP rankings or composite computer rankings if ties aren't broken by direct head-to-head.  They do this because they know it's in the entire conference's best interest to have their conference champion be as highly ranked as possible and have that conference championship game provide the champ with the best possible win.  The whole point of ditching divisions was to try to get the best teams into the chamionship games, but the resulting schedules broke the old tiebreaking mechanisms.

Let's say Miami plays Virginia instead of Duke in the ACC 'ship and wins.  Now they're the #4 conference champ, Tulane is now the #5 conference champ, and Notre Dame becomes the final at-large.

3 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

In the end... I think Notre Dame, Alabama and Miami all have legitimate reasons to be out. 

This is a good point and I hope people don't lose sight of this.  Before the playoff was expanded to 12, there were teams prevented from competing for a national championship that had done nothing wrong besides not being ranked high enough in the preseason - think 2004 Auburn.  But now?  If you don't get into the playoff, it's because you have multiple losses.  That used to be an automatic DQ for national championship consideration.  Now?  If you want find someone to blame, find a mirror

[nicksaviking]

I wouldn't have the playoffs open to independent teams. I'm beyond tired of Notre Dame thinking it's some special circumstance that gets to both call it's own shots and benefit from nobody else being able to call their own shots.

Hell, I wouldn't even tell them to join a Power Five conference, I'd tell them to go look in the FCS. I say that completely aware it will never happen because Catholics tend to have money and we all know that's all the NCAA cares about.

[Vanimal46]

39 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I wouldn't have the playoffs open to independent teams. I'm beyond tired of Notre Dame thinking it's some special circumstance that gets to both call it's own shots and benefit from nobody else being able to call their own shots.

Hell, I wouldn't even tell them to join a Power Five conference, I'd tell them to go look in the FCS. I say that completely aware it will never happen because Catholics tend to have money and we all know that's all the NCAA cares about.

Notre Dame's formula for years has been scheduling 10 cupcake teams, and 2 ranked teams. Hope to split the 2 ranked games and head to the playoffs with a 11-1 record. 

[nicksaviking]

9 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Notre Dame's formula for years has been scheduling 10 cupcake teams, and 2 ranked teams. Hope to split the 2 ranked games and head to the playoffs with a 11-1 record. 

Right, they should be in ahead of Miami? After losing to Miami? 

Zero pity. 

[Mike Sixel]

Screw ND. Also, double screw them for not letting their seniors play in a bowl, and teaching them that if you don't get your first choice in life, give up. Awful lesson, which isn't shocking from ND, frankly.

Want in? Play a real schedule and join a conference. The only upset people are tv executives that have playoff games, and ND fans. Everyone else is happy (or couldn't care less). 

[The Great Hambino]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Screw ND. Also, double screw them for not letting their seniors play in a bowl, and teaching them that if you don't get your first choice in life, give up. Awful lesson, which isn't shocking from ND, frankly.

Want in? Play a real schedule and join a conference. The only upset people are tv executives that have playoff games, and ND fans. Everyone else is happy (or couldn't care less). 

Odd, since the TV execs with playoff games are the ones conducting this dog and pony show ...

As to why they'd pass on Notre Dame, you could look at the conferences with networks under the ESPN umbrella, then look at who benefited from Notre Dame's exclusion

If you really wanted to wander off into conspiracy land, think about the implications of what Bama's exclusion would do to conference championship games.  They lost their usefulness once the playoff expanded past 4, divisions were dropped, and conferences blew up to an unmanageable size within an 8 or 9 game schedule, but they're still putting them on because everyone makes money from them.  Teams would start opting out of those games and they'd be dealing with an even bigger mess than they are now.

This isn't to say that it was some conspiracy that Notre Dame was left out.  The committee had boxed themselves into an impossible scenario.

If you stay true to resumes, head-to-head, and don't punish teams for playing the extra game, then Notre Dame should be left out.  If you truly look at just the current best teams for the at large spots, then Alabama should be left out.  If they were to follow their own internal ranking logic, then Miami should be left out.  No matter who they left out, they were going to cause a problem.

But ultimately, if you don't want to be left out, don't lose multiple games.

[Squirrel]

On 12/8/2025 at 9:15 AM, Parfigliano said:

F Notre Dame.  Join a conference.

This sums it up quite succinctly.

[old nurse]

The solution would be the dissolution of the school conferences in football in the FBS level divide it into the pp level for pseudo professional, and the HN level for have nots. 136 teas makes for 4 divisions of 17 in each group playoffs are top 4 in each of the pp divisions. 

[Riverbrian]

7 hours ago, old nurse said:

The solution would be the dissolution of the school conferences in football in the FBS level divide it into the pp level for pseudo professional, and the HN level for have nots. 136 teas makes for 4 divisions of 17 in each group playoffs are top 4 in each of the pp divisions. 

I just counted 68 P4 and 68 G5 with Notre Dame in the P4 and Connecticut in the G5. The numbers add up. I'll take your idea and I'll add a relegation system. The bottom team from each division goes down to G5. The winner of each division goes up. (Pause)(Crickets)

Yeah I know. I've over complicated something that was probably fraught with resistance in the first place.  

The NCAA doesn't appear to be strong enough to make suggestions like this and the conferences are fighting each other for real estate. 

But... Yeah I agree. They should level this thing off. They won't... but they should.

I'd suggest groups of 64 so we can send 4 teams down right away. Syracuse, Oklahoma State, Purdue and Arkansas start in the G5! 

Send the official letters of relegation out right away. 

 

[nicksaviking]

19 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I just counted 68 P4 and 68 G5 with Notre Dame in the P4 and Connecticut in the G5. The numbers add up. I'll take your idea and I'll add a relegation system. The bottom team from each division goes down to G5. The winner of each division goes up. (Pause)(Crickets)

Yeah I know. I've over complicated something that was probably fraught with resistance in the first place.  

The NCAA doesn't appear to be strong enough to make suggestions like this and the conferences are fighting each other for real estate. 

But... Yeah I agree. They should level this thing off. They won't... but they should.

I'd suggest groups of 64 so we can send 4 teams down right away. Syracuse, Oklahoma State, Purdue and Arkansas start in the G5! 

Send the official letters of relegation out right away. 

 

Relegation seems like a great idea, but there always seems to be a power 5 team under suspension. There would be zero justification for a school like Michigan not be relegated, however, since the same people are in charge and all they care about is the money, they'll also never relegate a Michigan. 

[Riverbrian]

2 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Relegation seems like a great idea, but there always seems to be a power 5 team under suspension. There would be zero justification for a school like Michigan not be relegated, however, since the same people are in charge and all they care about is the money, they'll also never relegate a Michigan. 

I'd love to see it but... I just doubt it would ever happen because there is really no financial benefit to relegate Boston College so James Madison can take their place.  

I just love the execution of relegation in the English Football System. It's actually beautiful. The worst teams have to fight like hell to stay up and it creates drama on both sides of the standings. If an FCS school like any of the Dakota or Montana schools wants to become bigger and play with the big boys some day. Relegation allows them to rise up the levels by simply winning and earning the advancement, They would get promoted without conference Presidents or conference committees standing in front of the door holding them back while they look at program infrastructure, the money coming in from donors, television market size and the number of seats in the stadium. If Montana works themselves up to the top level. It'll be up to them to stay up. 

In the case of Michigan getting relegated due to a suspension or a really shocking bad season. 

It would be a nightmare because that's a lot of money that will be playing Miami (Ohio) instead of Miami (Fla). However... if they are truly Michigan. It would most likely be a one year thing because they will get themselves right back and if they can't... they are just not Michigan and deserve to be where they are. 

It would be fun... It just won't happen.  

[bean5302]

A tool I really like is the SRS in sports reference. Average point differential and strength of schedule. It's far from perfect, but it feels like a fairly neutral way to compare teams.

Any team scoring 18+ did enough to deserve a CFP nod. Under that and it gets murky. Gophers' best season was 11.73 in 2019.

6.78 Tulane
10.66 James Madison
13.75 Oklahoma
14.71 Alabama
16.20 Ole Miss
17.82 Texas A&M
18.44 Georgia
19.41 Miami
20.33 Oregon
23.00 Indiana
23.60 Texas Tech
24.05 Ohio State

Notable overlooks: Notre Dame 21.79, Utah 17.88, BYU, 16.44, USC 15.99.

[Mike Sixel]

Abolish college sports and go back to education as the goal. That's the fix....

That said, I love the idea of relegation, but I can't see it happening. 

The real question is, what's the point of college sports, and how do we make the system achieve that? Because it's clearly not about helping a huge swath of kids that wouldn't go to college otherwise....

[nicksaviking]

3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Abolish college sports and go back to education as the goal. That's the fix....

That said, I love the idea of relegation, but I can't see it happening. 

The real question is, what's the point of college sports, and how do we make the system achieve that? Because it's clearly not about helping a huge swath of kids that wouldn't go to college otherwise....

I understand that idea, but what happens to these kids that aren't going to go to the NFL/NBA/MLB after they are done with this minor league stuff? 95% of them aren't going to the top leagues, and if they aren't going to the top leagues, they aren't going to get paid much in this new system. At least with this current system, these guys are given free college (it should all be free or at least easily affordable to everyone BTW) that they can use for their real professions.

[bean5302]

College Football literally generates more revenue than MLB so it's going nowhere. From what I can tell, it's a recruitment tool for colleges and a way to float other athletic programs which do not generate revenue but are considered an enrichment to culture.