Hayes: "Minnesota Twins are believed to have $5 million [to spend]"

[DJL44]

29 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

We will sign another Margot instead and keep doing it year after year.  

Manual Margot has a .626 OPS last year. Kept his job all year. 

Do you want a list of all the potential free agent players they could have signed instead of Margot who were better than Margot? It's really long so I'd rather avoid making it.

That's what I want them to do - sign someone decent. Crappy veteran vs crappy rookie is a false argument.

[DJL44]

32 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

First off... Projections are projections. Some of those guys will do better and some of those guys will do worse. If the projections are accurate... The GM job is going to be tremendously easy. 

But... OK... Let's say the projections are right on the money. Take it to the bank. 

You have just listed 5 guys who are projected to out perform Margot and Vazquez at the plate. Two of those guys on the roster for 1.6 million as opposed to 14 million. 

Go take that 12.4 million you saved and get somebody to knock Keirsay's .641 off your list. 

Margot is no longer on the roster. He doesn't save them any money in 2025. Vazquez is on the roster because he can play catcher. 

I am 100% in favor of taking the $5M they have plus the $7.5M they can save by dumping Paddack for nothing and using that $12.5M to add a player (or two) who will be worth a damn so they don't have to give hundreds of plate appearances to their AAA depth players.

[Riverbrian]

On 2/1/2025 at 11:05 AM, DJL44 said:

Do you want a list of all the potential free agent players they could have signed instead of Margot who were better than Margot? It's really long so I'd rather avoid making it.

That's what I want them to do - sign someone decent. Crappy veteran vs crappy rookie is a false argument.

It's not a false argument... It's a point that needs full consideration. Because crappy vet stays with the club all year. Crappy rookie can be sent down. Crappy vet costs 4 million and crappy rookie costs the minimum.

Crappy Vet will be gone next year and requires a replacement which could be a crappy rookie that wasn't crappy. 

Someone decent?

I have no problem with someone who performs like Donovan Solano did because he at least helped us that year. But even Donovan was gone after the season so future was sacrificed to a certain degree. 

You and I both know that Pete Alonso isn't coming. That's a whole nother discussion. So... the team has to develop Pete Alonso but we are busy with Solano and his band the endless string of one year contracts. While you are declaring minimum salary guys dead before arrival. 

[Riverbrian]

25 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Margot is no longer on the roster. He doesn't save them any money in 2025. Vazquez is on the roster because he can play catcher. 

I am 100% in favor of taking the $5M they have plus the $7.5M they can save by dumping Paddack for nothing and using that $12.5M to add a player (or two) who will be worth a damn so they don't have to give hundreds of plate appearances to their AAA depth players.

You want someone to take Paddack's 7.5M. The reason you want that 7.5M off the books is so you can spend it on someone worth a damn... is because you think Paddack is over priced for the production you expect him to produce.

If he is overpriced for the production that you expect him to produce. You have to find a team that is going to disagree with you and say... Ahh... That DJL44 is wrong. Let me trade for Paddack and that 7.5m. 

After you find that team that disagrees with your assessment for Paddack. Then you got to find that guy for 12.5 that won't become the next Paddack to avoid turning to those rookies that scare you. 

And the only way off this merry-go-round is to actually find a guy making the minimum who is better than Paddack. 

Trying to buy players who are DEVELOPED by other teams with no money available isn't a sustainable option. 

[Cory Engelhardt]

10 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

You want someone to take Paddack's 7.5M. The reason you want that 7.5M off the books is so you can spend it on someone worth a damn... is because you think Paddack is over priced for the production you expect him to produce.

If he is overpriced for the production that you expect him to produce. You have to find a team that is going to disagree with you and say... Ahh... That DJL44 is wrong. Let me trade for Paddack and that 7.5m. 

After you find that team that disagrees with your assessment for Paddack. Then you got to find that guy for 12.5 that won't become the next Paddack to avoid turning to those rookies that scare you. 

And the only way off this merry-go-round is to actually find a guy making the minimum who is better than Paddack. 

Trying to buy players who are DEVELOPED by other teams with no money available isn't a sustainable option. 

Only commenting to say that Zebby and Festa and SWR and possibly even Morris are all likely to produce the same that Paddack will in 2025, if not out produce. The twins do have starting pitching depth, and that’s a good thing.

If they are bringing in a starting pitcher, I want it at or near the top of the rotation, not the back.

Trading off Paddack to get salary to help with a different position or two on the roster is ok. They already have starting pitching depth to cover what Paddack would give as far as production

[Riverbrian]

1 minute ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Only commenting to say that Zebby and Festa and SWR and possibly even Morris are all likely to produce the same that Paddack will in 2025, if not out produce. The twins do have starting pitching depth, and that’s a good thing.

If they are bringing in a starting pitcher, I want it at or near the top of the rotation, not the back.

Trading off Paddack to get salary to help with a different position or two on the roster is ok. They already have starting pitching depth to cover what Paddack would give as far as production

I agree. And 2 of those will be in the minors waiting for Paddack to get injured or fail to the point that Paddack is released and the Twins haven't released Guys with money on their deals when they fail... they tend to stick around for the entire year.  

My whole point is this: Develop or Die! The more capable players that we can roster making the minimum gives you money left over that can be spent on higher end players. I am not afraid of Rookies... they can be sent down. I'm afraid of Vazquez and Margot who won't be sent down. 

Wasting the money on players making 3 million here and 4 million who are producing what the rookies will produce is just creating the same problem next year and the year after that. 

You've named 4 guys who you think will be better than the 7.5 spent on Paddack. You could be right... you may be wrong but... you did save 7.5 million that can be spent on the upper end if you combine with the other 3 million here and 4 million here guys. 

[tony&rodney]

4 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Only commenting to say that Zebby and Festa and SWR and possibly even Morris are all likely to produce the same that Paddack will in 2025, if not out produce. The twins do have starting pitching depth, and that’s a good thing.

If they are bringing in a starting pitcher, I want it at or near the top of the rotation, not the back.

Trading off Paddack to get salary to help with a different position or two on the roster is ok. They already have starting pitching depth to cover what Paddack would give as far as production

I'm also fine with the current group of pitchers. I would like Paddack to be used in the bullpen. If he is put ahead of any of SWR, Festa, or Matthews it will be a poor end result. Spot starts as needed, ok.

I'm not sure what trade value, if anything worth pulling off, Paddack or Vazquez have across baseball. Dan Hayes wrote the article to suggest that a little extra money made a trade for Cease possible without having to balance salaries. Cease fits as a good starter. His rental status makes people nervous because of the player cost. Hayes suggests SWR/Matthews, Larnach, a mid level prospect, and likely Castro. That is a huge collection for San Diego and fits all of their needs more or less. Perhaps the Twins can tweak that through including either of Miranda or Julien instead of Larnach and subbing in Cory Lewis or C. J. Culpepper plus a CB draft pick instead of Matthews. The options are there for Falvey and Preller to get what they want in a deal. I'm fine with what the Twins have now for pitching.

[DJL44]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

It's not a false argument... It's a point that needs full consideration. Because crappy vet stays with the club all year. Crappy rookie can be sent down. Crappy vet costs 4 million and crappy rookie costs the minimum.

Crappy Vet will be gone next year and requires a replacement which could be a crappy rookie that wasn't crappy. 

Someone decent?

I have no problem with someone who performs like Donovan Solano did because he at least helped us that year. But even Donovan was gone after the season so future was sacrificed to a certain degree. 

You and I both know that Pete Alonso isn't coming. That's a whole nother discussion. So... the team has to develop Pete Alonso but we are busy with Solano instead and you are declaring them dead before arrival.   

There is no future development benefit from the 5 guys I mentioned. I'm fine if they want to play Brooks Lee or Emmanuel Rodriguez. Those guys might get better with the investment of playing time. Michael Helman and Mickey Gasper offer no such benefit. 29-year-old AAA guys just don't turn into good major leaguers. I can't think of anyone besides Casey Blake who amounted to anything. Those are 1 in a thousand odds.

Also - crappy vet does NOT have to stay with the team all season. Other teams have no trouble releasing veterans who aren't performing. I have no idea why the Twins have this paralyzing fear about releasing waiver-wire caliber veteran players.

Quote

You want someone to take Paddack's 7.5M. The reason you want that 7.5M off the books is so you can spend it on someone worth a damn... is because you think Paddack is over priced for the production you expect him to produce.

If he is overpriced for the production that you expect him to produce. You have to find a team that is going to disagree with you and say... Ahh... That DJL44 is wrong. Let me trade for Paddack and that 7.5m. 

Here is where scarcity matters. Paddack is blocking pitchers in AAA who are probably better than him. He's one of the crappy veterans on this roster who is blocking the interesting rookies. However, there are many other teams who don't have 5 interesting starting pitcher prospects in AAA who would be happy to have Chris Paddack on their roster. He's not worth $7.5M to the Twins but several pitchers who are just about as good as him have signed for that much (or more) this offseason as free agents.

It makes a lot of sense to reallocate the $7.5M away from pitching (where they have interesting rookies to try in AAA) to hitting (where they don't).

[tony&rodney]

Sorry to interrupt the conversation between Riverbrain and DJL44, but after looking back (again) at the free agents available (not Alonso or Bregman) I'm left wondering who a person should be interested in. Who?

[nicksaviking]

5 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Somebody needs to block the playing time of Michael Helman, Eddie Julien, Austin Martin, Mickey Gasper and Dashawn Keirsey. Those are AAA depth players, not MLB-caliber starters.

Sure, but any MLB player only getting 5M is also a non MLB-caliber starter. And he wouldn't have options.

[nicksaviking]

42 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Here is where scarcity matters. Paddack is blocking pitchers in AAA who are probably better than him. He's one of the crappy veterans on this roster who is blocking the interesting rookies. However, there are many other teams who don't have 5 interesting starting pitcher prospects in AAA who would be happy to have Chris Paddack on their roster. He's not worth $7.5M to the Twins but several pitchers who are just about as good as him have signed for that much (or more) this offseason as free agents.

It makes a lot of sense to reallocate the $7.5M away from pitching (where they have interesting rookies to try in AAA) to hitting (where they don't).

Frankie Montas is getting 14M per for two years. I don't think you are noticing how much bad players cost these days.  The Twins aren't going to improve the roster with the 5M and they certainly won't with 12.5M minus Paddack. 

[VINCT]

The key to the Twins entire season, and foreseeable future, is trading Correa, something that would be good for both him and the team. He's a little fragile, but all the teams showing interest can protect him and value his talent and experience. Then you have 3 young players ready to take over the infield, and Mirando at first for now. Definitely pick up Cease. It all comes down to pitching, and he's one of the best right now. The pen will be fine. Let's not forget the players the Twins will receive in the Correa trade and the free agent signings/trades that can be made with the payroll savings. Cease and a slugging 1st baseman like Alonso would make the team a strong contender.

[thelanges5]

Average innings pitched for a starter was 5.24 in 2024. That gives us 849 innings to cover with our SPs. We have used 8 SPs the last 2 seasons. Even with Paddack we are going to use - Lopez, Ryan, Ober, SWR, Paddack, Festa, Matthews, and at least 1 of Raya/Adams. Only Lopez and Ober pitched the full season. 
 

Dan Hayes mentioned they like the depth with Paddack and they weren’t comfortable with the pitching depth last season. 

[Jocko87]

5 hours ago, DJL44 said:

 

 

5 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

 

 

https://twinsdaily.com/forums/forum/35-head-2-head-debate-forum/ 

[Riverbrian]

On 2/1/2025 at 1:49 PM, DJL44 said:

There is no future development benefit from the 5 guys I mentioned. I'm fine if they want to play Brooks Lee or Emmanuel Rodriguez. Those guys might get better with the investment of playing time. Michael Helman and Mickey Gasper offer no such benefit. 29-year-old AAA guys just don't turn into good major leaguers. I can't think of anyone besides Casey Blake who amounted to anything. Those are 1 in a thousand odds.

Also - crappy vet does NOT have to stay with the team all season. Other teams have no trouble releasing veterans who aren't performing. I have no idea why the Twins have this paralyzing fear about releasing waiver-wire caliber veteran players.

Here is where scarcity matters. Paddack is blocking pitchers in AAA who are probably better than him. He's one of the crappy veterans on this roster who is blocking the interesting rookies. However, there are many other teams who don't have 5 interesting starting pitcher prospects in AAA who would be happy to have Chris Paddack on their roster. He's not worth $7.5M to the Twins but several pitchers who are just about as good as him have signed for that much (or more) this offseason as free agents.

It makes a lot of sense to reallocate the $7.5M away from pitching (where they have interesting rookies to try in AAA) to hitting (where they don't).

Ok... I get it. You believe that Festa or the other interesting young starters are being blocked but Julien won't amount to anything. I didn't realize that this was a completely subjective discussion. I was trying to be systemic but I realize that isn't going to resonate with you while you are merely looking at the players you want to chuck out the window.  

Casey Blake is all you can think of? Are you only watching Twins. I know you are aware of Brent Rooker because we discussed him at length but not a late bloomer with the Twins so... no to Brent Rooker.

If Rooker doesn't count... then I assume Nelson Cruz doesn't count either? How about Josh Donaldson?  How about Jose Bautista? Jeff Kent? Jorge Posada? Justin Turner? JD Martinez? Max Muncy? Scherzer? Hey what about Joe Nathan?  How about David Ortiz? He arrived in Boston at age 27.

Do they have to be old... Can we consider the under rated prospects who are young? Mitch Garver was never a top ten ranked prospect. Jose Altuve or Jose Ramirez were not players that Keith Law sang songs about. Goldschmidt? Jacob Degrom? Kluber? Blackmon? 

Do they have to be superstars to be worth the effort? Will an out of nowhere Cedric Mullins suffice. Tommy Pham? Chris Taylor? 

How about if they just OPS .700 in their rookie year instead of paying a 35 year old Mark Canha 7 million for the same. 

Let's forget all of those names... there are many more despite severe limited opportunity because the late bloomer or low ranked guy gets one shot while the top ranked prospects get 50 shots at it. But... let's forget all of those names. 

Let's just do the math on the point I'm making. Just considering the 26 man and not the 40 man. 26 guys averaging 5 million AAV in any given year is a 130 million payroll. Carlos Correa is going to be paid 37 million this year. That's going to take 8 pre-arb players at league minimum just to get you back to that 5 million per player average in that given year. Correa, Lopez, Buxton and Vazquez combine to 84 Million this year. That leaves 22 spots to fill with the remaining 46 million. Now how many pre-arb guys do you need? 

The Twins have a budget... they have always had a budget. Go ahead... declare Julien Dead. You might be right but Julien with a .690 OPS at the minimum instead of Mark Canha with a .700 OPS at 7 million is your Chris Paddack example. Paddack might make 20 starts with a 4.78 ERA... we are better off with Festa making 20 starts with a 5.14 ERA. 

I know that Chia Pet can see it. I know the Rally Goat can see it. Nicksaviking can see it. 

Develop or Die. We are not signing Alonso. 

Every pre-arb player on the roster makes money available to go bigger. Every minimum paid player is about 5 million extra that can be applied to make a bigger offer to someone else. There are a bunch of pre-arb options who just might out perform or perform similar or even perform just a tish below what Mark Canha will bring to the table.

The Rookies, 2nd year and third year guys are the key to everything! 

 

[DJL44]

48 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Casey Blake is all you can think of? Are you only watching Twins. I know you are aware of Brent Rooker because we discussed him at length but not a late bloomer with the Twins so... no to Brent Rooker.

If Rooker doesn't count... then I assume Nelson Cruz doesn't count either? How about Josh Donaldson?  How about Jose Bautista? Jeff Kent? Jorge Posada? Justin Turner? JD Martinez? Max Muncy? Scherzer? Hey what about Joe Nathan?  How about David Ortiz? He arrived in Boston at age 27.

Do they have to be old... Can we consider the under rated prospects who are young? Mitch Garver was never a top ten ranked prospect. Jose Altuve or Jose Ramirez were not players that Keith Law sang songs about. Goldschmidt? Jacob Degrom? Kluber? Blackmon? 

Do they have to be superstars to be worth the effort? Will an out of nowhere Cedric Mullins suffice. Tommy Pham? Chris Taylor? 

How about if they just OPS .700 in their rookie year instead of paying a 35 year old Mark Canha 7 million for the same. 

Age at debut

Rooker 25, Bautista 23, Cruz 24, Kent 24, Posada 24, Turner 24, Martinez 23, Muncy 24, Ortiz 21, Garver 26, Altuve 21, Ramirez 20, Goldschmidt 23, Blackmon 24, Mullins 23, Pham 26, Taylor 23, Canha 26.

So no, none of those guys made their debut at age 28. None of them are good comps for Gasper and Helman. Hell, even Casey Blake got a cup of coffee at age 25. For players who debut at age 28, if you're lucky, you become Chris Colabello.

I wasn't thinking about pitchers, and they're different because they can move to the bullpen later in their career, but Scherzer 23, Nathan 24, deGrom 26, Kluber 25. None of those work either.

Julien isn't dead, but his career is on life support. A 700 OPS with bad defense isn't playable. He should start the season in AAA, learn how to play 1B and see if he can re-learn how to hit.

I have less hope for Martin because his defense was even worse, and he's never hit like Julien did in 2023. I mean, Martin was so bad on defense that he couldn't beat out Manny Margot for playing time. That's really bad.

It is not impossible to find a useful player for $5M. Carlos Santana signed for about $5M. Donovan Solano signed for less than that. Profar signed for $1M last season. It's actually pretty easy to find a player under contract for $12M in 2025 who can help.

4 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

I'm left wondering who a person should be interested in. Who?

You're right that there isn't much but it's not bare. I think Bader might get stuck without a team. His bat has dropped to Austin Martin levels but he's still an elite glove. They could use that in the outfield. I like Connor Joe, probably more than I should, but he'll give you solid bench play for very little money. Ramon Laureano could be useful. Jose Iglesias had a great season last year. Brendan Rodgers projects to a .720 OPS, is probably a better defender than anyone the Twins have for 2B, and he's younger than Gasper and Helman. 

[Riverbrian]

11 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

For players who debut at age 28, if you're lucky, you become Chris Colabello.

Chris Colabello made the minimum along with 13 other pre-arb Blue Jays in 2015. 

With a 27th ranked Payroll. The Blue Jays finished 1st in the AL East with a 93-69 Record. Chris Colabello out performed Manual Margot. With the money not spent on those 14 pre-arb players. They were able to pay bigger contracts to Buehrle, Bautista, Tulowitski, Martin, Encarnacion and Price. 

[Riverbrian]

37 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

It is not impossible to find a useful player for $5M. Carlos Santana signed for about $5M. Donovan Solano signed for less than that. Profar signed for $1M last season. It's actually pretty easy to find a player under contract for $12M in 2025 who can help.

And then do it again next year. 

[Parfigliano]

7 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I agree. And 2 of those will be in the minors waiting for Paddack to get injured or fail to the point that Paddack is released and the Twins haven't released Guys with money on their deals when they fail... they tend to stick around for the entire year.  

My whole point is this: Develop or Die! The more capable players that we can roster making the minimum gives you money left over that can be spent on higher end players. I am not afraid of Rookies... they can be sent down. I'm afraid of Vazquez and Margot who won't be sent down. 

Wasting the money on players making 3 million here and 4 million who are producing what the rookies will produce is just creating the same problem next year and the year after that. 

You've named 4 guys who you think will be better than the 7.5 spent on Paddack. You could be right... you may be wrong but... you did save 7.5 million that can be spent on the upper end if you combine with the other 3 million here and 4 million here guys. 

It's a feedback loop and they do it damn near every year. Aged vet is signed for millions .  Proves he's aged and washed up and is an anchor dragging the team down.  He must play all year because he signed for millions. 

He blocks a rookie making league minimum and team never gets to see what rookie can do.  Chances are rookie at least puts up numbers multi-milllion dollar vet does.  Team wasted it's limited resources and rookie gets blocked.

Rinse.  Repeat.

[Riverbrian]

40 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Julien isn't dead, but his career is on life support. A 700 OPS with bad defense isn't playable. He should start the season in AAA, learn how to play 1B and see if he can re-learn how to hit.

I have less hope for Martin because his defense was even worse, and he's never hit like Julien did in 2023. I mean, Martin was so bad on defense that he couldn't beat out Manny Margot for playing time. That's really bad.

I don't do this. I don't know what Julien is going to be in 2025. I don't assume to know what Brooks Lee is going to be 2025 or 2028. I'm not going to set odds because Lee was #1 ranked in 2023. They can bring us a championship or they can be sent down with the options they hold and they can be anything in between. 

I'm all about the system. The need for pre-arb talent will never stop. The need to have money to pay for other players will never stop. Limitations on what the Twins can spend will never stop regardless of who owns the team. 

 

 

[Riverbrian]

18 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

It's a feedback loop and they do it damn near every year. Aged vet is signed for millions .  Proves he's aged and washed up and is an anchor dragging the team down.  He must play all year because he signed for millions. 

He blocks a rookie making league minimum and team never gets to see what rookie can do.  Chances are rookie at least puts up numbers multi-milllion dollar vet does.  Team wasted it's limited resources and rookie gets blocked.

Rinse.  Repeat.

Yep and you can add this:

Rookie disappears into the wind. People say... See... Told ya he'd never make it. Teams spends money on another aged vet. Team doesn't have money to sign a better vet and is forced to trade expensive talent for more prospects that disappear into the wind. 

[DocBauer]

I'm going to hit on a couple points made here:

1] I fully embrace letting rookies play instead of a retread veteran that costs $M's of dollars and performs poorly. I am HOPEFULL that Martin turns a corner with the glove and bat in 2025. I'm HOPEFULL that either, or both, of Keirsey and Helman will finally get a chance to show if they can be solid, fairly productive bench players. I don't know that they CAN, but when your hands are tied financially, and you have "older" players who have performed at the AAA level that YOU drafted and developed to this point, you need to see what they can do.

COUNTERPOINT: If you have a SPOT that appears empty, I don't think signing a veteran on a 1yr deal to fill that spot until your system can produce a ready replacement is a bad way to go. 

What COULD the Twins do with an extra $5M? There's still about 3 LHRP they could probably afford to sign to flesh out the pen: Coulombe, Chafin, and Poche. It's possible a veteran bat like Grichuk might take $5M-ish because nobody else is going to give him what he wants. He's a fairly split neutral RH bat who fills a SPOT on the roster, but isn't JUST a platoon bat. ONE YEAR potential fix for 2025.

$5M extra to spend isn't going to have a huge impact on the 2025 Twins overall, but you might fill a spot.

2] What if Paddack was moved for all, or most all of his $7.5M to a team looking for depth, and the Twins are willing to roll with their young depth. Accurate or not, there have been rumors in the offseason that the Jay's want to move Yandy Diaz for prospects. He's owed about $12M in 2025 with a team option in 2026 for around $16M. A deal like this adds a solid bat to the team, helps "fix" anxiety over the 1B situation, and Miranda can STILL play 1B, as well as DH, and can still play some 3B here and there.

I had heard previous rumors that maybe the Orioles wanted to move Mountcastle. If at all true, same situation as Diaz, but younger, still in arbitration, and not quite as good of a player, but the end result is similar.

When the payroll is this tight, the extra $5M doesn't solve anything pertinent, but it might allow, or assist, in filling ONE SPOT on the roster that remains a question mark for 2025.

[DJL44]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

And then do it again next year. 

If they're trying to win, yeah. It is completely unrealistic to think they can build an entire team out of pre-arb talent. They would have to be the best team in the league at drafting and developing in all of MLB by a wide margin.

The other thing they could do with that money is sign someone like Duran or Jeffers to a contract that extends past arbitration. It's a huge, missed opportunity that they have ignored.

1 hour ago, Parfigliano said:

He must play all year because he signed for millions. 

The Twins are the only team in the whole league who thinks like this. It is one of the biggest weaknesses of this front office. They have to get better at assessing talent and making decisions in-season because right now everyone else is doing it better.

[tony&rodney]

3 hours ago, DJL44 said:

You're right that there isn't much but it's not bare. I think Bader might get stuck without a team. His bat has dropped to Austin Martin levels but he's still an elite glove. They could use that in the outfield. I like Connor Joe, probably more than I should, but he'll give you solid bench play for very little money. Ramon Laureano could be useful. Jose Iglesias had a great season last year. Brendan Rodgers projects to a .720 OPS, is probably a better defender than anyone the Twins have for 2B, and he's younger than Gasper and Helman. 

If any of those guys will sign a  ST invite that provides a $2M contract if they make the team, sure ok. 

Otherwise forget about it. 

[tony&rodney]

12 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

If they're trying to win, yeah. It is completely unrealistic to think they can build an entire team out of pre-arb talent. They would have to be the best team in the league at drafting and developing in all of MLB by a wide margin.

The other thing they could do with that money is sign someone like Duran or Jeffers to a contract that extends past arbitration. It's a huge, missed opportunity that they have ignored.

The Twins are the only team in the whole league who thinks like this. It is one of the biggest weaknesses of this front office. They have to get better at assessing talent and making decisions in-season because right now everyone else is doing it better.

Highly doubt whether either Duran or Jeffers are remotely interested in signing extensions. They shouldn't be if they trust their talent. Both of them have already made legacy money and unless they have pissed it all away they know they are set to make a bundle down the road. I would advise them to go year by year.

The last paragraph largely accounts for why many folks do not want any more worn out veteran players.

 

[ddubbl1]

16 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

AAA depth that won't perform according to you is not depth. They are just jerseys with names on the back of them. They are just going to be called up and slaughtered so what's the point. We will sign another Margot instead and keep doing it year after year.  

Manual Margot has a .626 OPS last year. Kept his job all year. 

Here are a list of rookies (over 100 AB's) who had a higher OPS than Margot had in 2024. 

Blue Jays:

Spencer Horwitz

Leo Jimenez

Orioles:

Colton Cowser

Rays:

Junior Caminaro

Red Sox:

Ceddane Rafaela

Wilyer Abreu

David Hamilton

Yankees:

Austin Wells

Guardians:

Daniel Schneeman

Jhonkensy Noel

Angel Martinez

Kyle Manzardo

Tigers:

Colt Keith

Wenceel Perez

Parker Meadows

Justin Henry-Malloy

Trey Sweeney

Twins: 

Austin Martin

A's:

Kyle McCann

Angels:

Nolan Schanuel

Astros:

Joey Loperfido (Also on the Blue Jays List of Rookies)

Rangers:

Wyatt Langford

Evan Carter

Marlins:

Otto Lopez

Connor Norby

Nationals:

Jacob Young

James Wood

Jose Tena

Andres Chaparro

Dylan Crews

Brewers:

Jackson Chourio

Joey Ortiz

Cards:

Maysn Winn

Pedro Pages

Cubs:

Michael Busch

Pete Crow-Armstrong

D-backs:

Blaze Alexander

Dodgers:

Andy Pages

Giants:

Tyler Fitzgerald

Jung Ho Lee

Padres:

Jackson Merrill

Rockies:

Hunter Goodman

I believe that is 42 total

Here's a list of rookies (over 100 AB's) who didn't have a higher OPS than Margot had in 2024. 

Blue Jays:

Addison Bargar

Joey Loperfido

Orioles:

Jackson Holliday

Rays:

Curtis Mead

Yankees:

Ben Rice

Guardians:

Brayan Rocchio

Royals:

Nick Loftin

Twins:

Brooks Lee

White Sox:

Dominic Fletcher

Brooks Baldwin

A's:

Max Schuemann

Darell Hernaiz

Brett Harris

Nationals: 

Trey Lipscomb

Cards: 

Michael Siani

Victor Scott

Reds:

Noelvi Marte

Giants:

Grant McCray

Rockies:

Jordan Beck

 I believe that is 19 total

 

So if you read through the entire list. That is a total of 60 Rookies (Loperfido took 2 spots) who received at least 100 AB's in 2024.

41 out of 60 were better than Margot. That is 68%. I'll take those odds at the major league minimum opposed to 4 million spent on below average production. Actually I would take those odds if it was 33% just for the possible discovery of someone who might help us out next year. 

Now let's look at that number 60. That's how many Rookies got at least 100 AB's last year. 439 Players were given at least 100 AB's in the majors in 2024. So... 14% were Rookies. 14% is the opportunity afforded to Rookies to clear the low bar of 100 AB's while Manual Margot stays on the club all damn year.  

There were 86 Players with less AB's than Margot got and a lower OPS than Margot produced. 

There were 20 Players with more AB's than Margot got and a lower OPS than Margot produced. Only 2 were rookies. 

That's 106 players - 19 of those players are rookies. 18% of those sucking below the Margot line were rookies.

That means 82% of those worse than Margot were not rookies. Take that with the 68% of Rookies performing better than Margot. 

And... Well... I'm not afraid of Rookies and I really don't understand why you are. 

 

 

 

 

i thought we let Margot walk??? Buck and Martin can play center.

[ddubbl1]

Just now, ddubbl1 said:

i thought we let Margot walk??? Buck and Martin can play center.

one of the comments acted like we still had Margot

[Riverbrian]

6 hours ago, DJL44 said:

It is completely unrealistic to think they can build an entire team out of pre-arb talent.

Did I type "ENTIRE TEAM"? 

If I didn't... Please don't tell me it's completely unrealistic. 

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, ddubbl1 said:

i thought we let Margot walk??? Buck and Martin can play center.

The post you are responding to, was a list of every rookie across the majors in 2024. I put them all in two categories.

1. Better than Margot in 2024.

2. Worse than Margot in 2024.

I used Margot as a benchmark because we traded Noah Miller and paid him 4 million dollars and he kept his job all year long. 

I typed that list because another poster typed that Martin shouldn't play center and should be blocked from playing time along with 4 other players. 

You are responding to me... that Martin can play center. 

You should direct that comment to DJL44.

I should consider why I spend time on this site. 

[Riverbrian]

10 hours ago, DJL44 said:

If they're trying to win, yeah. It is completely unrealistic to think they can build an entire team out of pre-arb talent.

You used Chris Colabello to make a point about the age of a prospect. 

I responded to your Colabello example with a post that actually COUNTS HOW MANY pre-arb players the 2015 Blue Jays had on the roster. I also pointed out the bigger contracts on the 2015 Jays Roster in an attempt to show the POSSIBILITY that the pre-arb guys helped pay some larger salaries. I also included the Blue Jays record in 2015 and I also point out that they won the AL East. 

And you've brought us back to here. 

OK... I get it... You like these Rookies... You don't like these rookies. We should probably stop.