How Excited Should Fans Be About Pohlad Family Plans to Sell Minnesota Twins?

[twinsfansd]

What if the new owner is more tight fisted than the Pohlad's?

Worse yet, what if A-Rod is part of the group. That would make me puke. I have been a Twins fan for over 60 years, and that would make me find a new team. 

[JD-TWINS]

On 10/10/2024 at 3:48 PM, Riverbrian said:

Great Post

The Orioles were purchased by a group of 9 people. Rubenstein is the principle owner but there are at least 8 others involved in the purchase... including a very wealthy Michael Bloomberg along with Cal Ripken and Grant Hill. 

The Orioles obviously had a plan to tear it down and build it back up... however... with many young talented pieces in place... they are currently 20 million behind the Twins in payroll for 2024. 

The only reason I bring this up. Those expecting a major change... might be in for a surprise.

The surprise would actually be major change.

Just a new principle owner that the fans will be upset with in the future.  

Cannot say this slant on “what may be coming” is not accurate. However, the Orioles roster is one high ranked or previously (young) high ranked prospect after another. The ownership group has been there for months at this point. Inherited low payroll with (theoretically) a bunch of young talent. A previous ownership that wasn’t going to spend. They went out & got Burnes immediately and had Kimbrel on payroll & made some deadline moves……….my point is that the $20M less payroll than Twins isn’t necessarily the mindset for the organization going forward…….will be interesting to see how they treat the Santander free agency.

Bottom line is numerous posts here state that there is uncertainty with new Twins ownership, if & when there’s new ownership. Fingers crossed!

My thought is that it’s hard to imagine an ownership group putting together $1.5-$1.7B  for meager operating profits and a sub-par ROI and not being motivated to get a kick out of WINNING!

[JD-TWINS]

On 10/11/2024 at 1:27 AM, JADBP said:

Sorry, there is little evidence to suggest that the Twins lost $50 million this year.  And that is an insane amount.  If it were true, that would suggest that the Twins Mgmt is horrible at running a profitable business and they would ALL have been canned.  It certainly would be insane to sell the team after suffering a $50 million loss.  

What this really points to is four things:

1) The family today does not have the affection for the Twins that Carl and Eloise had for decades (before and after buying the team).  It wasn't vanity, it was affection, that spurred Carl to buy the team.  Today, Jim, Bob and Bill Pohlad are the current owners with Joe as currently EVP (apparently Jim was bored with running the Twins).  They see the team very differently than Carl--as an annual paycheck (as if they needed one), or a P&L statement, rather than a cherished part of the community.  So, it seems like they just want to cash out.

2) I am guessing that they cut $30 million to try to even out the losses of the Bally contract--making them whole for the year.  In their mind, they need to pocket $10 each and every year for upkeep of the mansions on Lake Mtka.   What they really miss is how long term Sports management works to earn dollars.  Carl understood community investment much better, trying to build value in the team as an asset to the community builds equity. 

4) The living Pohlads have been poor stewards as they seem to be bad at hiring people to run their investment.  There are far more profitable stream revenue streams than MLB or even Bally--companies that are rabidly expanding into sports steaming and have far far deeper pockets (Amazon, Microsoft,  etc).  That must be too complicated for them--all this new-fangled computer stuff!  So, they keep plodding along with the same old-school management (because it is comfortable) and they manage the team into a tragic decline.  The management is as near-sided as they can be.  It appears that don't care about winning games, just making $$ to hang on to their jobs.  

Rather than try to fix this mess that the Pohlad sons have made, they likely believe the estimates and are dreaming of splitting up $1.6 Billion three ways.  Pathetic!

Not in major disagreement with this and have no serious ill thoughts about ownership in 80’s v. 2020’s. It seems though that Carl & Mrs. are getting painted in some very glowing fashion here. They did deliver the fan base from the Griffith’s - that was a big deal!!!! However, they also owned the team when MLB was going to contract the franchise and Courts stopped that action in the near-term. Players had success and it all went away - Carl & Eloise weren’t stopping the contraction movement to my recollection.

[Fatbat]

On 10/10/2024 at 1:38 PM, bean5302 said:

Acquiring the Twins will probably cost in the neighborhood of $1.5B. They typically run an operating income (profit) of about $10-20MM, which is a terrible investment, and a big chunk of revenue is about to disappear. The overall profitability of the Twins, even when considering market value, is under the S&P 500 Index fund so owning the Twins hasn't been a great investment for the Pohlad family for the last 30 years or so.

In fact, most baseball teams aren't great investments. In order to provide a the return which would outperform the general stock market, you have to grow the market value, which is honestly accomplished through attendance (fan experience) or national exposure (winning World Series' or employing big name players).

So there has to be another motivation behind the acquisitions.

If you consider everything the Pohlads have done in business since 1984, they employed a brilliant strategy of building generational wealth.  The Twins were purchased for 144M$ and are now worth 1.45B$. They have owned and sold several businesses. Banks, car dealerships. Etc.  I’m sure they were smart enough to also invest in the stock market and use business loss’s to their tax advantage.  Owning any professional sports franchise is a luxury item. Some make more long term profit than others but I doubt any owner has ever had negative ROI on a sports franchise.  

[bean5302]

20 minutes ago, Fatbat said:

If you consider everything the Pohlads have done in business since 1984, they employed a brilliant strategy of building generational wealth.  The Twins were purchased for 144M$ and are now worth 1.45B$. They have owned and sold several businesses. Banks, car dealerships. Etc.  I’m sure they were smart enough to also invest in the stock market and use business loss’s to their tax advantage.  Owning any professional sports franchise is a luxury item. Some make more long term profit than others but I doubt any owner has ever had negative ROI on a sports franchise.  

Carl Pohlad would have created more "generational wealth" putting the $44M (not $144MM) into a Stock Index Portfolio than by owning the Twins in terms of their market value as reported by Forbes this year. In fact, investing $44MM into a Stock Index fund would now be worth over $3B today.

[Fatbat]

40 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Carl Pohlad would have created more "generational wealth" putting the $44M (not $144MM) into a Stock Index Portfolio than by owning the Twins in terms of their market value as reported by Forbes this year. In fact, investing $44MM into a Stock Index fund would now be worth over $3B today.

Yeah, that “1” was an oops. Do you know what the family wealth is in Total Billions? I’m with you that the twins has underperformed the Dow/S&P 500 since 1984 but unless you look at their entire portfolio, you can’t say it wasn’t a good investment. Its all private info so good luck finding their actual family net worth. Maybe one of them was smart enough to throw millions into Nvidia a couple years ago and is now sitting on a huge pile. 

[jjswol]

On 10/10/2024 at 1:18 PM, bean5302 said:

The likely biggest bonus for the organization and fans is a new owner not being tied to Dave St. Peter and the front office's failed marketing strategy. Butts in the seats = revenue. Revenue = payroll capacity. Dave St. Peter has failed in his goals for 5 straight years and he's still running the show.

If a new owner puts a better marketer in place, the Twins are going to draw much better.

Nothing sticks to Dave St. Peter yet he appears to have few accomplishments on his resume. He must be the prototypical "yes" man that ownership likes. He certainly has the ability to talk a good story but yet say nothing.

[Fatbat]

3 hours ago, jjswol said:

Nothing sticks to Dave St. Peter yet he appears to have few accomplishments on his resume. He must be the prototypical "yes" man that ownership likes. He certainly has the ability to talk a good story but yet say nothing.

Isn’t St.Peter responsible for revamping the minor leagues. Draft and development along with bringing in the analytics tech?

[Dave Borton]

57 minutes ago, Fatbat said:

Isn’t St.Peter responsible for revamping the minor leagues. Draft and development along with bringing in the analytics tech?

No. All Falvey.

[Fatbat]

33 minutes ago, Dave Borton said:

No. All Falvey.

So St.Peter starts his career in 1990 as an intern and eventually becomes Pres. and CEO of the Twins and isn’t responsible for any of that? Interesting take on his career…

[Mike Sixel]

23 minutes ago, Fatbat said:

So St.Peter starts his career in 1990 as an intern and eventually becomes Pres. and CEO of the Twins and isn’t responsible for any of that? Interesting take on his career…

He runs the business side, not the baseball side. 

[Fatbat]

6 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

He runs the business side, not the baseball side. 

Correct. 

President & Chief Executive Officer

Dave St. Peter was named the fourth president in Minnesota Twins history on November 26, 2002. St. Peter also assumed the Chief Executive Officer title on December 21, 2016 and continues to oversee the team’s day-to-day operations, strategic planning and interaction with Major League Baseball.

St. Peter played a central role in the approval, design, construction and opening of Target Field, which was named 2011 Sports Facility of the Year by the Sports Business Journal (SBJ). He also has played leadership roles in securing the 2022 Discover NHL Winter Classic® for Target Field, a New Year’s Day extravaganza described in the Star Tribune as a “postcard for Minnesota”; construction of a new player-development Academy in the Dominican Republic; hosting the 2014 Major League Baseball All-Star Game, which earned finalist honors from SBJ for “Event of the Year”; expansion of the Lee Health Sports Complex in Fort Myers, FL – named Ballpark Digest’s 2015 “Major Ballpark Renovation of the Year”; as well as forging the team’s partnership with Hennepin County on the design and programming of Minnesota’s award-winning intermodal transit hub — Target Field Station. In 2020, St. Peter led the Twins’ effort to build a new, player development-focused partnership with the St. Paul Saints.

The 2024 season is St. Peter's 35th with the Twins. He joined the organization as an intern in 1990 and over his first decade with the franchise held a variety of positions including Pro Shop Manager, Communications Manager, Vice President of Corporate Communications and Senior Vice President of Business Affairs. As the club president, the Twins established a new single-season franchise attendance record in 2010 by attracting more than 3.2 million fans to Target Field, while the team was recognized by ESPN as having the best stadium experience in all of professional sports. St. Peter’s leadership has been integral to the team’s Diversity, Equity and Inclusion commitment; development of the “Magic Moments” customer service initiative; the “Go Twins, Go Green” environmental stewardship platform; expansion of the Treasure Island Baseball Network; aggressive community outreach; and expansive alumni involvement — including creation of the Twins Hall of Fame.

St. Peter has been part of a leadership team helping the franchise advance to postseason play 10 times since 2002, including nine American League Central Division titles. During St. Peter’s leadership tenure, the Twins have twice been named “Organization of the Year” by Baseball America (2002 and ‘04). In 2006, the entire Twins organization was recognized as the Star Tribune’s “Sports Person of the Year”, while in 2002, the franchise received the Atlanta Sports Council’s Horizon Award as the “Professional Sports Organization of the Year.” The Twins organization was a finalist for SBJ’s 2019 “Team of the Year” Award.

The “Twins Tradition” of Passion, Hustle, Heart and Fun has flourished under St. Peter’s stewardship. Seven times, the Twins have been honored by the Star Tribune as one of the “Top 100” workplaces in Minnesota. In 2011, the Twins were celebrated by the Minneapolis Parks and Recreation Board with its “Living the Dream” Award. The Twins Community Fund, which celebrated its 30th year in 2021, was honored in 2000 with the Greater Minneapolis Chamber of Commerce’s Quality of Life Award and in 2006 with a Project EverGreen Stewardship Award. In 2016, the Minneapolis Regional Chamber of Commerce presented the Twins with an “Honored Company” Award in recognition of outstanding community service. Since 2012, the Twins have been a Yellow Ribbon Company in recognition of the club’s support for veterans as well as active-duty soldiers. In 2019, the U.S. Green Building Council selected the Twins as a recipient of the prestigious Greenbuild Leadership Award recognizing excellence in the creation of healthier, more sustainable buildings and communities.

Individually, St. Peter has been named to the SBJ’s and Minneapolis-St. Paul Business Journal’s “Forty under 40” lists. In 2018, he was recognized by the Positive Coaching Alliance as Minnesota’s Triple-Impact Competitor Business Executive of the Year. In 2022, Northern Star Scouting recognized St. Peter with the Spurgeon Award in appreciation for service as a role model for youth through career excellence and community service.

At the league level, St. Peter serves as a Trustee on the MLB-MLBPA Player Pension Committee. In the community, St. Peter co-chairs Minnesota Sports and Events and sits on the Steering Committee for the Minneapolis Downtown Council's Vision 2035. He also serves on the boards of NuLoop Partners and the University of North Dakota Alumni Association & Foundation. from MLB.com

[Riverbrian]

On 10/12/2024 at 9:45 AM, JD-TWINS said:

My thought is that it’s hard to imagine an ownership group putting together $1.5-$1.7B  for meager operating profits and a sub-par ROI and not being motivated to get a kick out of WINNING!

I have no idea but my thought has always been.

The Twins are in a large clump of teams who are always in the same range in regards to payroll. I don't expect it to change... I assume they are clumped together for a reason but who knows... we might get an owner(s) who arrives and introduces us to a higher range of payroll.

If that happens... Eventually the fans will be back to complaining about payroll once adjusted to the new higher range. 😁

[jjswol]

22 hours ago, Fatbat said:

Isn’t St.Peter responsible for revamping the minor leagues. Draft and development along with bringing in the analytics tech?

Is this a serious question?

[Fatbat]

8 hours ago, jjswol said:

Is this a serious question?

Yes because he was involved in hiring Falvey/Levine and all the people they brought in.  I doubt that he is just a numbers guy locked in his office. 

[ashbury]

On 10/12/2024 at 3:06 PM, Fatbat said:

Correct. 

President & Chief Executive Officer

Dave St. Peter was named the fourth president in Minnesota Twins history on November 26, 2002. St. Peter also assumed the Chief Executive Officer title on December 21, 2016 and continues to oversee the team’s day-to-day operations, strategic planning and interaction with Major League Baseball.

St. Peter played a central role in the approval, design, construction and opening of Target Field, which was named 2011 Sports Facility of the Year by the Sports Business Journal (SBJ). He also has played leadership roles in securing the 2022 Discover NHL Winter Classic® for Target Field, a New Year’s Day extravaganza described in the Star Tribune as a “postcard for Minnesota”; construction of a new player-development Academy in the Dominican Republic; hosting the 2014 Major League Baseball All-Star Game, which earned finalist honors from SBJ for “Event of the Year”; expansion of the Lee Health Sports Complex in Fort Myers, FL – named Ballpark Digest’s 2015 “Major Ballpark Renovation of the Year”; as well as forging the team’s partnership with Hennepin County on the design and programming of Minnesota’s award-winning intermodal transit hub — Target Field Station. In 2020, St. Peter led the Twins’ effort to build a new, player development-focused partnership with the St. Paul Saints.

The 2024 season is St. Peter's 35th with the Twins. He joined the organization as an intern in 1990 and over his first decade with the franchise held a variety of positions including Pro Shop Manager, Communications Manager, Vice President of Corporate Communications and Senior Vice President of Business Affairs. As the club president, the Twins established a new single-season franchise attendance record in 2010 by attracting more than 3.2 million fans to Target Field, while the team was recognized by ESPN as having the best stadium experience in all of professional sports. St. Peter’s leadership has been integral to the team’s Diversity, Equity and Inclusion commitment; development of the “Magic Moments” customer service initiative; the “Go Twins, Go Green” environmental stewardship platform; expansion of the Treasure Island Baseball Network; aggressive community outreach; and expansive alumni involvement — including creation of the Twins Hall of Fame.

St. Peter has been part of a leadership team helping the franchise advance to postseason play 10 times since 2002, including nine American League Central Division titles. During St. Peter’s leadership tenure, the Twins have twice been named “Organization of the Year” by Baseball America (2002 and ‘04). In 2006, the entire Twins organization was recognized as the Star Tribune’s “Sports Person of the Year”, while in 2002, the franchise received the Atlanta Sports Council’s Horizon Award as the “Professional Sports Organization of the Year.” The Twins organization was a finalist for SBJ’s 2019 “Team of the Year” Award.

The “Twins Tradition” of Passion, Hustle, Heart and Fun has flourished under St. Peter’s stewardship. Seven times, the Twins have been honored by the Star Tribune as one of the “Top 100” workplaces in Minnesota. In 2011, the Twins were celebrated by the Minneapolis Parks and Recreation Board with its “Living the Dream” Award. The Twins Community Fund, which celebrated its 30th year in 2021, was honored in 2000 with the Greater Minneapolis Chamber of Commerce’s Quality of Life Award and in 2006 with a Project EverGreen Stewardship Award. In 2016, the Minneapolis Regional Chamber of Commerce presented the Twins with an “Honored Company” Award in recognition of outstanding community service. Since 2012, the Twins have been a Yellow Ribbon Company in recognition of the club’s support for veterans as well as active-duty soldiers. In 2019, the U.S. Green Building Council selected the Twins as a recipient of the prestigious Greenbuild Leadership Award recognizing excellence in the creation of healthier, more sustainable buildings and communities.

Individually, St. Peter has been named to the SBJ’s and Minneapolis-St. Paul Business Journal’s “Forty under 40” lists. In 2018, he was recognized by the Positive Coaching Alliance as Minnesota’s Triple-Impact Competitor Business Executive of the Year. In 2022, Northern Star Scouting recognized St. Peter with the Spurgeon Award in appreciation for service as a role model for youth through career excellence and community service.

At the league level, St. Peter serves as a Trustee on the MLB-MLBPA Player Pension Committee. In the community, St. Peter co-chairs Minnesota Sports and Events and sits on the Steering Committee for the Minneapolis Downtown Council's Vision 2035. He also serves on the boards of NuLoop Partners and the University of North Dakota Alumni Association & Foundation. from MLB.com

When the concession stands all run out of those little packets of mustard for your burger or hot dog at the same time, DSP is the guy who fires the person responsible for the oversight and promotes an eager young intern as the replacement, all the while scolding Twins fans for expecting mustard to be available for each and every food item anytime they want.  I will take your word for the other stuff.

[Riverbrian]

8 hours ago, ashbury said:

When the concession stands all run out of those little packets of mustard for your burger or hot dog at the same time, DSP is the guy who fires the person responsible for the oversight and promotes an eager young intern as the replacement, all the while scolding Twins fans for expecting mustard to be available for each and every food item anytime they want.  I will take your word for the other stuff.

Dear, Whoever is in charge of those little packets of mustard. 

Please go to a dispenser. The packets are nearly impossible to open.

Sincerly,

Riverbrian

[jjswol]

12 hours ago, Fatbat said:

Yes because he was involved in hiring Falvey/Levine and all the people they brought in.  I doubt that he is just a numbers guy locked in his office. 

Good answer, you are one of the few that believe that. I agree with you 100%. 

[Cap'n Piranha]

On 10/11/2024 at 8:10 AM, USAFChief said:

I don't think there is even a small chance the family is losing cash on an annual basis.

Of course, unless you're a Pohlad, neither of us know for sure, since they don't open their books.

But Forbes agrees with me. Here's 2023:

https://www.forbes.com/teams/minnesota-twins/

 

According to their estimates, the Twins had an operating income of $19m last year.

 

 

 

Based on the link you shared alone, I wouldn't use Forbes as any kind of reliable source.

• It claims the Twins' revenue increased by $75M from 2023 to 2024.  How did that happen, when we know for a fact the TV deal was substantially reduced, and attendance was down year over year?
• It claims the Twins' revenue was $278M in 2020.  How did that happen, when they had 0 gate revenue, and hugely reduced TV revenue due to cancelling 100+ games? 
  • My suspicion is that Forbes has confused 2020 and 2021, just based on the numbers, but if they can't even put expenses and revenue in the right year, do we really trust their data?
• Even if the data is accurate, this report says the Twins have lost money 2 of the last 4 years, and are almost $50M in the red over that timeframe.  Should we really blame business people for wanting to cut expenses on an underwater business that is about to lose even more revenue?