Was 2024 the Most Disappointing Season in Minnesota Twins History?

[laloesch]

Personally, I've been watching the Twins since the 80's when I was a young kid and this one stings unlike most of the previous ones.  They just.....gave up in late August into September.  Say what you want about losing multiple times for years to the Yankees, or the penny pinching by ownership, and the lack of moves by Falvey, the players just rolled over, no ifs ands or buts.  It was truly disappointing to see. 

I will say this, they have the talent, and many of the rookies did a fine job filling in as injury replacements in the starting lineup, but in August it's like they all decided "meh were done we don't really care to make the playoffs," and turned in.  Tom Kelly, Ron Gardenhire, and even past players like Torii Hunter, would never ever ever ever have put up with that nonsense. 

And I'll address the titanic elephant in the room.  Baldelli needs to go.  I was reluctant to voice my opinion on the matter but his handling of the starting pitching, bullpen, and subs is just cringe worthy.  IDK what this guy is thinking but he shouldn't be manager.  This team needs a Don Mattingly style manager, a leader that lights a fire under these guys when needed and can get them rolling in the right direction when things get tough.  Baldelli is just not that kind of manager and that's a big problem long term.  Again this team had enough to at least make the playoffs.  Extremely disappointing.

As a previous poster said, this division has now gotten extremely competitive.  The Royals and Tigers are now playoff caliper teams along with the Guardians so it's going to be tough for a few years.  Don't be surprised that if the Pohlads continue to pinch pennies that this team fades into mediocrity in the coming years.  A collapse like this does one of two things, it galvanizes the players and the team to do better the following season, or they just accept it "meh we lost" fade and they become perennial losers with this core no matter what the talent which would be a shame. 

And the injuries hurt, there's no doubt about it, but the starting order has GOT to play more games next year.  If you look at the Royals every one of their starters (except the DH) played at least 100 games and many were in the 130's.    

I also think owner totally dropped the ball on the Bally sports contract.  They knew this was a problem heading into 2024 and it looks like they stood fast and let it play out instead of searching for alternatives.  I still don't see a long term solution, but I'm not in the TC area so I'm not privy to what's happening on that front.  If they don't address this expect more cuts to payroll which is bad, bad, bad.

[bean5302]

My feeling is, yes. 

1993-2001 - Feels a lot like the same kind of ownership as we've seen since the end of last year. "Can't compete on the big budgets, etc." Fan apathy just set in. Hatred of greedy sports owners in Minnesota (Carl Pohlad, Norm Green, etc.). 

2002-2009 After miser Carl Pohlad blinked when Radke held his feet to the fire extending the ace in mid 2000, and the failure of the contraction effort in 2001, it was a new age for the Twins. Fans were energized by false cries of financial woe eventually giving way to the rusty hinges of Pohlad's wallet opening and the success of the Twins in 2001.

2010 Fans were excited with the opening of Target Field, Jim Pohlad's promise of expanding payrolls, and the unprecedented (for the Twins) recent extensions of their top players like Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau, Michael Cuddyer, and Joe Nathan. 

2011 - It seemed like a convergence of unexpected performances, and bad luck caused the collapse. Liriano completely cratered, Baker had a great season but missed a huge chunk, Pavano declined. "Bilateral leg weakness" and the training staff handling it poorly crippled Joe Mauer. Injuries devastated the team with only 2 players qualifying (Valencia, who was a huge disappointment and Cuddyer who had a great season).

2012 - The realization the Twins just weren't that good, but the terrible 2011 softened the blow a lot. The Twins went out and picked up Willingham so there was at least some effort, I suppose. Plus, Bill Smith was shown the door after the brutal 2011 campaign which meant somebody was held accountable.

2013-2014 - The rebuild was underway. The team wasn't expected to be good.

2015-2016 - The signs of life showed up with a surprise playoff appearance in 2015, followed by a let down in the 2016 campaign, but the Twins young core showed enormous promise.

2017-2023 - The Falvey era hope. Regardless of which side you were on, the doors opened up and the dingy basement of Twins analytics was rapidly aired out, expanded and enhanced. Falvey brought the team into the modern age of scouting and analytics driven development. After 20 years of ineptitude, the Twins were finally a team to be reckoned with. A playoff series win. A young core with truly impressive potential. Analytics in place. An ownership group with a younger and interested voice who were willing to spend money and compete. 2024 was the year. You could just feel it.

Yeah, from the end of 2023 to now, ownership took the fan base out back and put it down in a way which is almost incomprehensible. It was almost like a strategic plan to kill the fan base. I'm not sure they could have done any more damage to skip by hope and anger and go straight to apathy.

[Doctor Gast]

Most of the 70's & 80's were bad but I expected that. But looking at '24 starting the offseason, our '23 core was still intact, with healthy veteran leadership Buxton, Polanco & Correa, with promising Lewis, Miranda & Kiriloff to start the season & together with promising rookies. Our main hole was Gray, my hope was to trade for a stud but with rising Ryan & Ober, I'd still be satisfied with a mid-rotation inning eater to take the pressure off the rotation & BP & put us in a position to win the Division & advance in the postseason. This hole was not filled at all but instead money was spent on frivolous salaries handcuffing us financially from having money to spend on more important opportunities. Trade opportunities were not taken advantage of during the offseason & deadline. So I wasn't surprised at all by the outcome, nevertheless, I was very disappointed because I thought we had a shot at taking home the whole thing.

[Trov]

This was not the most disappointing season, and really on the list the 2022 and 2011 were only really disappointment seasons. I would say 2011 was as we had are core team, had been winning for several years, and thought that would continue, and the season was just terrible.  2022 was also an issue as we had the big signing of CC and trade for Grey, but we still had some holes. 

The other seasons listed, the team did not finish far off from where they were expected going into the season.  In 2001 they were not expected to compete at all, just because they faded down stretch does not mean they were a disappointment.  In 1992 they were just a few wins off the prior year, yes they had hopes of repeating, but back then even getting into playoffs on back to back years were hard enough.  We lost one of our top starters from 1991.  

This year we did terrible down the stretch, but did not finish too far off of what many expected in total wins.  It was disappointing, and not a fun last month really, but I would not say the most disappointing. 

[laloesch]

21 minutes ago, Florida Flash said:

Agree. Very obvious the team quit on Rocco. I still cannot understand ALL the injuries. I dont remember the Twins of old, Killebrew, Allison, Versalles, Rollins, etc, being hurt all the time. Granted Tony wrecked his knee on an outfield sprinkler, but seemed to always play.

Also, it seems everyone is swinging for the fence every at bat and every situation. I guess that is where the money is. A 210 hitter with 24 homeruns makes a lot more money than a 310 hitter with 4 home runs.

Yeah.  I don't get it either.  How much of it is REALLY legit?  You have to ask yourself that.  I looked at the Royals lineup and EVERY one of their starters went at least 100 games (except their DH).  5 players went 130+.

C - Salvador Prez 158 games

1B - Vinnie Pasquantino (10-day IL) 131 games

2B - Michael Massey 100 games

SS - Bobby Witt Jr. 161 games (wow)

3B - Maikel Garcia 157 games (wow again)

LF - MJ Melendez 135 games

CF - Kyle Isbel 136 games

RF - Hunter Renfroe 120 games

DH - Nelson Velazquez (40 man) 64 games

[BillyBallLives]

I've heard a frequent phrase used by a few players....

 

"Ran out of gas". Or  "running on fumes"

Where the Mighty Marlins running on fumes as they traveled to Minnesota to take 2 of 3? 

Every team plays 162 games, last time I checked. 

"Running out of gas" is just an excuse..

 

 

 

[BillyBallLives]

1 hour ago, laloesch said:

EVERY one of their starters went at least 100 games (except their DH).  5 players went 130+.

C - Salvador Prez 158 games

1B - Vinnie Pasquantino (10-day IL) 131 games

2B - Michael Massey 100 games

SS - Bobby Witt Jr. 161 games (wow)

3B - Maikel Garcia 157 games (wow again)

LF - MJ Melendez 135 games

CF - Kyle Isbel 136 games

RF - Hunter Renfroe 120 games

DH - Nelson Velazquez (40 man) 64 games

Yep....and none of them are :

 

"Running out of gas"

 

Maybe Joe needs to put in a filling station in the clubhouse. 

[S Bart]

For those that think that believe that nobody should talk negatively about the Twins, read the link below from Aaron Gleeman's interview of Twins' president Joe Pohlad, 

Aaron Gleeman Puts Minnesota Twins Owner on Trial in Epic Back-and-Forth (msn.com)

 

[rationalfan]

This is the most disappointing finish to a season I've had - the Twins usually finish strong with steady it's-a-marathon-not-a-sprint mentality by Gardenhire or Rocco.  After being reminded of 2011, I have to say that was the more disappointing season because we had the players and new stadium to support keeping that team together and then the injuries and the huge whiff that was Nishioka and 99 losses.  That wasn't just a surprisingly not good year, it was the end of an opportunity.  It may be that this is that also, but as of now, it is just a disappointing end to a promising season.  I am worried though about the brand of baseball that was played: putting too much stock in maximizing OPS and righty-lefty matchups resulting in players playing out of position leading to poor situational hitting results, bad defense and throw in awful baserunning and then pulling your best pitcher who happens to be your starter with fewer than 90 pitches thrown to bring in a mediocre reliever who may or may not have good stuff that night.  Even Gardy's disappointing (or for that matter bad) teams were fundamentally sound.

[BsuNemo]

3 hours ago, laloesch said:

Yeah.  I don't get it either.  How much of it is REALLY legit?  You have to ask yourself that.  I looked at the Royals lineup and EVERY one of their starters went at least 100 games (except their DH).  5 players went 130+.

C - Salvador Prez 158 games

1B - Vinnie Pasquantino (10-day IL) 131 games

2B - Michael Massey 100 games

SS - Bobby Witt Jr. 161 games (wow)

3B - Maikel Garcia 157 games (wow again)

LF - MJ Melendez 135 games

CF - Kyle Isbel 136 games

RF - Hunter Renfroe 120 games

DH - Nelson Velazquez (40 man) 64 games

It seems to be a management/FO theme. I truly think some of it goes back to how they go about spring training and some of it goes by what the manager puts in their head. 

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, S Bart said:

For those that think that believe that nobody should talk negatively about the Twins, read the link below from Aaron Gleeman's interview of Twins' president Joe Pohlad, 

Aaron Gleeman Puts Minnesota Twins Owner on Trial in Epic Back-and-Forth (msn.com)

 

Is anyone saying that?

[S Bart]

35 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Is anyone saying that?

For the most part no, but there have been past postings that have pushed that concept. Sorry, I have been a fan since 1965 and am now a "downtrodden senior citizen" who has cheered them for so many years. I am just so sad at their leadership especially Joe Pohlad who I feel has no reality of the setting. He keeps mentioning business, but this 42-year-old does not seem to have a concept of how to run an operation like the Twins. It's also a community service, and dedication is part of the package. 

In the words of Field of Dreams, "If you build, they will come." 

[twinzcynic]

This wasn't the most disappointing, that distinction in my lifetime goes to the 2011 Twins. I knew this club stanked, even if most were fooled by the record for the vast majority of the season. In all reality if the Twinz of this year didn't get blessed to play the ChiSox 13 times (where the Twinz went 12-1), they were a 9 games below .500 team, which met my eye test.

[laloesch]

17 hours ago, S Bart said:

For those that think that believe that nobody should talk negatively about the Twins, read the link below from Aaron Gleeman's interview of Twins' president Joe Pohlad, 

Aaron Gleeman Puts Minnesota Twins Owner on Trial in Epic Back-and-Forth (msn.com)

 

I think Joe was quite defensive in his exchange with Aaron and he didn't really answer any of Gleeman's question just created word salad with no substance.  Not promising.  

[S Bart]

2 hours ago, laloesch said:

I think Joe was quite defensive in his exchange with Aaron and he didn't really answer any of Gleeman's question just created word salad with no substance.  Not promising.  

Well, he is not a very astute businessman. Skor North podcast from September 30 gives a fact-based background of Joe Pohlad's lack of success (I fact checked it for accuracy) with the past Pohlad businesses. It is pretty, pretty scary having this person on charge of the Twins operation. ...no wonder he is defensive! It is interesting that they did this " selected media event" on Sunday. Also, the media invited were handpicked. Gleeman is astute and the team probably regrets selecting him.

[Seth Stohs]

I'd have to say Yes.... I don't have a real memory of 1984, so since then, I think 2011 was previously the most disappointing. I just kept thinking that at some point "reality" would set in and the team would start playing better, and it never happened. More injuries and it just got worse. Uggh! 

It's just hard to know how much to say expectations are altered by injury or other facts. 

In 1992, they had a better regular season record than 1991, so I don't see that as disappointing at all. And, 2001, I don't think the expectations were there. They were such a surprise in the first half that I think most assumed there would be a return the center. 

[insagt1]

Well the 'fire Hyde' rumblings in Baltimore getting real loud. When you fail (badly) in post season, your job is always in jeopardy. Twins didn't get to post season and should have. O's won 101 and 91 last 2 seasons and couldn't win a game in post season. This is the stuff that gets managers fired.

Detroit and KC came on to steal the the last 2 wild cards....and looky here...they both swept their opponents, good opponents, in the first round.

No matter what anyone in either organization is saying right now, I have to believe both managers are on serious thin ice.

[Rigby]

Nah, for me it was 1967. Losing 4 of the final 5 games, especially the final two in Boston with the World Series in their grasp.. Followed closely by the 1969 and 1970 losses to Baltimore in the ALCS.

[laloesch]

10 hours ago, insagt1 said:

Well the 'fire Hyde' rumblings in Baltimore getting real loud. When you fail (badly) in post season, your job is always in jeopardy. Twins didn't get to post season and should have. O's won 101 and 91 last 2 seasons and couldn't win a game in post season. This is the stuff that gets managers fired.

Detroit and KC came on to steal the the last 2 wild cards....and looky here...they both swept their opponents, good opponents, in the first round.

No matter what anyone in either organization is saying right now, I have to believe both managers are on serious thin ice.

I'm rooting for both Detroit and KC.  Good for them!  Really, good for them.  Both those franchises came out of no-where so to speak and won wild card slots and knocked off favorites in the wild card round (Orioles and Astros).  I also think the Royals have the pitching to beat the Yankees and Detroit can certainly beat the Guardians.  They (Royals and Tigers) might end up facing each other in the ALCS.  

[insagt1]

Houston and now Milwaukee are out. Two more division champs are on the sidelines. In recent years it has become more obvious that what you did in the regular season doesn't mean much. Teams get hot at the right time and often they are the wild card teams. Interesting to note that despite not being able to score runs, Mets pulled it out in the 9th with a wild win over Milwaukee. Their key guys came through, unlike the O's key guys who simply went down with a whimper.