Vikings Offseason Thread

[Aggies7]

27 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, any owner who takes their queues from the fans is stupid, and taking them from Eagles fans would be the absolute worst.

That said, that team has got to be at a moral low point. Even if by chance it had nothing to do with the coach, they might not be able to dig themselves out of that hole without new leadership. Self doubt and self pity are contagious. 

Also, looking at the game logs, the Eagles went in the tank right about the time Jalen Hurts stopped running 10+ times per game. He probably can't lead that team to a Super Bowl with his arm alone, and I don't know if he can stay healthy if he continues to run. If this holds true, I can't wait to see those angry, fickle fans turn on their golden boy.

Losing by 3 touchdowns to arguably the worst team in the NFC playoffs 😂

[nicksaviking]

7 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Losing by 3 touchdowns to arguably the worst team in the NFC playoffs 😂

And a team that only scored 9 points against the freakin' Panthers with their season on the line the week before.

The best players on Philly's D are old too. They better hope all those big-name defensive draft picks who have mostly been backups the last two years improve.

[nicksaviking]

McCarthy is staying. No word on Sirianni, but I have to think that's a good sign for him. That would leave Atlanta, Washington, Tennessee, LA Chargers, Carolina, LV and Seattle. I think this impacts the Vikings because Belichick doesn't seem like someone who would want to take the time or the risk (for Belichick, the risk is the time probably) to develop a QB. I think a Cousins and Belichick matchup would be really good, but Belichick could try another option too I suppose.

Either way I really want him to go to a QB needy team drafting ahead of the Vikings. If that theory holds water, landing in Atlanta or Washington would be huge as far as the Vikings getting a better shot at landing one of the top QBs.

If the Vikings trade up because one is available, the Chargers look like a good fit. They'll have a new GM in there who may want to accumulate picks so he can have players that he likes, not his predecessor. Like Kwesi did his first year. Of course other teams will be looking to move up there too. Vikings can't let themselves get outbid, but it could be a ripe situation for the buyers to have to hand over more than usual. 

One team I think the Vikings are safe from bidding against is the Jets. They aren't going to want to piss off Rodgers like the Packers did by drafting his future replacement instead of help now to win a championship.

[gunnarthor]

Vikings have two players on PFF's all-rookie team, Pace and Blackmon. And, while Addison didn't make it at WR, he seems like a really good player. 

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, gunnarthor said:

Vikings have two players on PFF's all-rookie team, Pace and Blackmon. And, while Addison didn't make it at WR, he seems like a really good player. 

Must have been a rough class for corners. Blackmon only played more than 50% of the snaps in four games, and that was due to others being injured.

Hope he turns out to be a stud. Adofo-Mensah has used five of his nine 1st-4th round picks on DBs in his two drafts. He'll never build a competitive team if he keeps blowing 55% of his top picks on those positions.

[Mike Sixel]

57 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Must have been a rough class for corners. Blackmon only played more than 50% of the snaps in four games, and that was due to others being injured.

Hope he turns out to be a stud. Adofo-Mensah has used five of his nine 1st-4th round picks on DBs in his two drafts. He'll never build a competitive team if he keeps blowing 55% of his top picks on those positions.

It's two drafts ...

McCarthy keeping his job is nuts. 

[Parfigliano]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

It's two drafts ...

McCarthy keeping his job is nuts. 

As one who likes to see daBoys face plant....yea!!!!

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

It's two drafts ...

McCarthy keeping his job is nuts. 

I'm not throwing the GM out yet. One of my biggest Vikings pet peeves is blowing early picks on DBs and it always has been, so he started off rubbing me the wrong way from the start. I know, that's more on me than it is on him.

And glad to see the Cowboys keeping McCarthy. Because I hate the Cowboys.

[Vanimal46]

Give it some time to marinate, and Jerr Bear can still come around to firing McCarthy. Otherwise he is the biggest lame duck coach heading into 2024. My speculation is Belichick told him no. 

[nicksaviking]

57 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Give it some time to marinate, and Jerr Bear can still come around to firing McCarthy. Otherwise he is the biggest lame duck coach heading into 2024. My speculation is Belichick told him no. 

Yeah, that took awhile. I kind of thought Belichick and Jones wouldn't exactly work well together, but I also thought if Jones couldn't get Belichick, he'd fire McCarthy just to keep Dan Quinn.

[gunnarthor]

Assuming the Vikings somehow resign Cousins to a deal that makes him the QB this year and next (maybe some extra years tacked on) and Hunter leaves, what do you think the Vikings should do with the draft? (They have a first and second but no third this year).

A) best edge rusher available
B) best corner available
C) trade back for more picks than A/B.
D) QB for the future!

My very early opinion is that if they can move back modestly (no more than 10 slots), fine. But they need talent and pick 11 could see some interesting players available. I'd probably stay pat, suck it up, and make my picks, hoping a great edge rusher is there at 11 and Texas' monster DT is there at 42.

[nicksaviking]

13 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

Assuming the Vikings somehow resign Cousins to a deal that makes him the QB this year and next (maybe some extra years tacked on) and Hunter leaves, what do you think the Vikings should do with the draft? (They have a first and second but no third this year).

A) best edge rusher available
B) best corner available
C) trade back for more picks than A/B.
D) QB for the future!

My very early opinion is that if they can move back modestly (no more than 10 slots), fine. But they need talent and pick 11 could see some interesting players available. I'd probably stay pat, suck it up, and make my picks, hoping a great edge rusher is there at 11 and Texas' monster DT is there at 42.

If I was to assume Cousins was re-signed, it should be getting an edge rusher since there look to be some good ones. 

But I assume the opposite. I think Cousins is most likely gone and it's option E) trade up. Quite possibly with the team that does sign Cousins.

[Vanimal46]

6 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

Assuming the Vikings somehow resign Cousins to a deal that makes him the QB this year and next (maybe some extra years tacked on) and Hunter leaves, what do you think the Vikings should do with the draft? (They have a first and second but no third this year).

A) best edge rusher available
B) best corner available
C) trade back for more picks than A/B.
D) QB for the future!

My very early opinion is that if they can move back modestly (no more than 10 slots), fine. But they need talent and pick 11 could see some interesting players available. I'd probably stay pat, suck it up, and make my picks, hoping a great edge rusher is there at 11 and Texas' monster DT is there at 42.

My favorite edge rusher is Dallas Turner from Alabama. I think he’s gonna have a Micah Parsons type of impact on a team. If he’s there at 11, take him. 

[Aggies7]

I think Kirk will be here next year, no question IMO

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Tampa Bay at Detroit. 

Feels more like a boring old NFC Central matchup than a divisional playoff game. 

Also thinking back to 11-12 years ago and Kaepernick’s breakout game against the Packers in the divisional round, and the epic KC-Buffalo game a couple years ago. 

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, Aggies7 said:

I think Kirk will be here next year, no question IMO

Even if the Vikings wanted him back, this is likely his last contract and everything he says sounds like he wants to win a Super Bowl. Don't you think he'll have better opportunities elsewhere? The Vikings aren't close and likely won't be before he's done.

[gunnarthor]

7 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Even if the Vikings wanted him back, this is likely his last contract and everything he says sounds like he wants to win a Super Bowl. Don't you think he'll have better opportunities elsewhere? The Vikings aren't close and likely won't be before he's done.

I think it's a bit off to say the Vikings aren't close. You could make a real case that a healthy Cousins would have let the Vikings win the division (you could also disagree but without 6 turnovers against Detroit and 4 against Chicago, those games are probably different, at a minimum). The defense made huge jumps, from the second worst to middle of the pack. Another year of progress? With a healthy Cousins, the Vikes beat SF and were close against KC, the best two teams (probably). And, of course, football is very hard. Philly looked like the best team, by far, early in the season and utterly collapsed. So, who knows. Catch fire at the right time ... 

I think it's going to be hard to replace Hunter but the offense is basically there. Get lucky with pick 11, add DT Sweat from Texas to plug the running game ... this isn't a horrible team. They were an injured team. My guess is they bring Cousins back and try to win. 

 

[nicksaviking]

The defense made improvements for about four weeks in the middle of the year and then everyone figured them out. If Hunter leaves, they have one or two guys on that side of the ball that might start for other teams. It's an absolute train wreck.

On offense, they have some good skill position guys but three to four offensive lineman that need to be replaced. If the Vikings are foolish enough to think they are close to winning a Super Bowl, 2024 will probably be the most frustrating season of Vikings football I'll have witnessed. The rest of the NFC North is getting better and the Vikings are just getting older. This team is in really bad shape.

[Parfigliano]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

Even if the Vikings wanted him back, this is likely his last contract and everything he says sounds like he wants to win a Super Bowl. Don't you think he'll have better opportunities elsewhere? The Vikings aren't close and likely won't be before he's done.

Unfortunately he most definitely has a better chance at a Super Bowl elsewhere.

[nicksaviking]

35 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

Unfortunately he most definitely has a better chance at a Super Bowl elsewhere.

I think the gloom and doom about a rebuild is overblown. If you draft well, spend your cap well and have the right coaches who can develop players while crafting a system suited to their skills, you can do it quickly, even in a single season.

But you won't do it quickly by signing a 36-year-old QB to a 40M deal.

[gunnarthor]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

The defense made improvements for about four weeks in the middle of the year and then everyone figured them out. If Hunter leaves, they have one or two guys on that side of the ball that might start for other teams. It's an absolute train wreck.

On offense, they have some good skill position guys but three to four offensive lineman that need to be replaced. If the Vikings are foolish enough to think they are close to winning a Super Bowl, 2024 will probably be the most frustrating season of Vikings football I'll have witnessed. The rest of the NFC North is getting better and the Vikings are just getting older. This team is in really bad shape.

I just disagree. Except for SF and Baltimore, you don't really have perfect teams. Cleveland gets lit up by a rookie QB. So their #1 defense must be a fraud, right? In 9 out of 17 games, we held the opposing team to 21 points or less. We were 13th in points allowed. It's not what we had a few years ago but it's not as bad as fans keep insisting. I think. Losing Hunter will be bad but we have a good draft pick, a little bit of money for free agents. 

On offense, even with Cousins missing half the year, we were 10th in yards. Sure, it would be nice to upgrade at guard and WR3 (and RB, depending on how you feel about Chandler) but these aren't huge holes.

[nicksaviking]

8 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

I just disagree. Except for SF and Baltimore, you don't really have perfect teams. Cleveland gets lit up by a rookie QB. So their #1 defense must be a fraud, right? In 9 out of 17 games, we held the opposing team to 21 points or less. We were 13th in points allowed. It's not what we had a few years ago but it's not as bad as fans keep insisting. I think. Losing Hunter will be bad but we have a good draft pick, a little bit of money for free agents. 

On offense, even with Cousins missing half the year, we were 10th in yards. Sure, it would be nice to upgrade at guard and WR3 (and RB, depending on how you feel about Chandler) but these aren't huge holes.

You have to win four games against the top teams in the league to win the Super Bowl. Where does average at best defense and good-not-great offense get you? Bounced in the first round, 2nd if you're lucky.

You aren't an actual contender unless you have either an elite defense or an elite QB. 

[gunnarthor]

6 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

You have to win four games against the top teams in the league to win the Super Bowl. Where does average at best defense and good-not-great offense get you? Bounced in the first round, 2nd if you're lucky.

You aren't an actual contender unless you have either an elite defense or an elite QB. 

KC, Buffalo, Houston and Baltimore all have elite QBs (I assume). 
Is Goff elite? Because Detroit's defense is really bad (19th)
Is Baker elite? Because Tampa's defense isn't great (23rd)
Is Love elite? Because the Packer's defense isn't great (17th)
Is Purdy elite? (Doesn't really matter because SF's defense is really good). 

Vikings defense was better than three out of the four NFC playoff teams left. Is a healthy Cousins elite? Is he better than Goff, Baker, or Love? 

Again, the NFL is so good at keeping teams close to each other that, if you have a good QB, you can compete. I suspect the Vikings think Cousins is still a top 10 QB (and probably higher). 

[Vanimal46]

4 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

I think Kirk will be here next year, no question IMO

He would have to forgo testing the free agent market and sign with us before the new league year in March. Once the new league year hits, his $28.5 mill dead cap is locked in. We can’t afford that and pay him $40 million on top of it. 

[Danchat]

2 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

You could make a real case that a healthy Cousins would have let the Vikings win the division (you could also disagree but without 6 turnovers against Detroit and 4 against Chicago, those games are probably different, at a minimum)

They finished 5 games back of the Lions... they weren't winning the division even if everybody was healthy. They'd certainly be in the playoffs in one of the wild cards, but the injuries didn't cause us to lose an extra 5 games.

3 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

He would have to forgo testing the free agent market and sign with us before the new league year in March. Once the new league year hits, his $28.5 mill dead cap is locked in. We can’t afford that and pay him $40 million on top of it. 

I believe they can agree to the deal during the 2 day tampering period (which Kirk wants to get to so he can receive other bids) and announce the deal on the day the league year starts and avoid the $28.5M hitting... at least that's what I've been told by other sources.

[nicksaviking]

8 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

KC, Buffalo, Houston and Baltimore all have elite QBs (I assume). 
Is Goff elite? Because Detroit's defense is really bad (19th)
Is Baker elite? Because Tampa's defense isn't great (23rd)
Is Love elite? Because the Packer's defense isn't great (17th)
Is Purdy elite? (Doesn't really matter because SF's defense is really good). 

Vikings defense was better than three out of the four NFC playoff teams left. Is a healthy Cousins elite? Is he better than Goff, Baker, or Love? 

Again, the NFL is so good at keeping teams close to each other that, if you have a good QB, you can compete. I suspect the Vikings think Cousins is still a top 10 QB (and probably higher). 

Right, if the Lions, Bucs or Packers win it all, I'll eat my words. I don't expect to.

[stringer bell]

8 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Even if the Vikings wanted him back, this is likely his last contract and everything he says sounds like he wants to win a Super Bowl. Don't you think he'll have better opportunities elsewhere? The Vikings aren't close and likely won't be before he's done.

Which is why they shouldn't re-sign him. If they aren't serious Super Bowl contenders with Cousins, why pay that monumental salary? 

[Mike Sixel]

What super bowl contender is just a QB away?

[Parfigliano]

14 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

What super bowl contender is just a QB away?

J...E...T...S  JETS JETS JETS!!!!  Or not.

[Vanimal46]

59 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

What super bowl contender is just a QB away?

I do find it humorous that a potential Belichick/Kirk duo in Atlanta will make them Super Bowl contenders