Vikings Offseason Thread

[Mike Sixel]

17 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

In fairness to ownership (which pains me, a lot), they did go all-in. They signed Cousins. They had a top defense from 15-17 but a different QB each year (Teddy, Bradford, Keenan). Cousins was supposed to fix it. He was the #1 QB on the market (by far). He was the missing piece. And the defense was really good in 18 and 19. So we finally had both the elite D and the elite QB.

In retrospect, it was clear that the head coach wasn't ready/able to have a pass heavy offense. Spielman should have gotten a HC that would, but that was a hard decision to make. But the Vikes have been tied to an elite QB (by some definition) the last few years. I think trying to plug holes as the pop up and ride the QB isn't necessarily an awful idea.

Now, I think they have two choices. 1) Ride Cousins again, he's still elite and their #1 player loves him. 2) Draft a QB and hope he fits. Hunter is gone - and should be. He's 30 and missed a bunch of time the last three years. I can see arguments for both but - at least to me - the key thing is I think they have offensive and defensive minds (KOC and Flores) who are in agreement on overall team strategy and both know how to build what they want. You won't see Zimmer mistakes here.

I do think a different coach would have been great....I agree they have the right combination of coaches right now, even if I have quibbles with some specific decisions. 

This team is clearly at a major inflection point, and I'll be entertained watching this off season. 

[gunnarthor]

17 hours ago, Danchat said:

Hunter missed 10 games in 2021 and has played every game since, 34 in a row. I have no concerns with his health, more with are we okay paying him big money when he’s 32/33?

You're right. He missed all of 2020, over half of 2021, but had been mostly healthy the last two seasons. Either way, I wouldn't commit money to him as a 30 year old free agent. (Even though he'll kill us if he signs with det).

[nicksaviking]

On 1/27/2024 at 5:57 PM, gunnarthor said:

 

Now, I think they have two choices. 1) Ride Cousins again, he's still elite and their #1 player loves him. 2) Draft a QB and hope he fits. Hunter is gone - and should be. He's 30 and missed a bunch of time the last three years. I can see arguments for both but - at least to me - the key thing is I think they have offensive and defensive minds (KOC and Flores) who are in agreement on overall team strategy and both know how to build what they want. You won't see Zimmer mistakes here.

Keeping Cousins and losing Hunter, where does that put the team?!? They’d be about 11 players short of a top end defense, and how is the offense any better than when they were 4-4 when Cousins went down this year? 
 

At best that’s another average at best team. Why is anyone satisfied with that? Star. Over. I’m so sick of the Minnesota, ‘We’re just happy to be here’ mentality. It’s not a coincidence that our market has the longest championship drought in all of pro sports.

[gunnarthor]

2 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Keeping Cousins and losing Hunter, where does that put the team?!? They’d be about 11 players short of a top end defense, and how is the offense any better than when they were 4-4 when Cousins went down this year? 
 

Vikings defense was better than Detroit's defense so ...

[Mike Sixel]

It's estimated Taylor Swift generated more than 330 million dollars for the chiefs this year! All you haters can suck it. More women watched the NFL than any year since 2000....

[gunnarthor]

Assuming the Vikes don't resign Cousins or Hunter, and Smith retires, does anyone know how much cap space they will actually have for next year? I know Cousins has some dead cap space if we don't resign him. Not sure about Smith and retirement. 

[nicksaviking]

14 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

Assuming the Vikes don't resign Cousins or Hunter, and Smith retires, does anyone know how much cap space they will actually have for next year? I know Cousins has some dead cap space if we don't resign him. Not sure about Smith and retirement. 

I'm not sure, but I hope it goes toward the O-Line. Top free agent linemen are perhaps the most reliable producers, and drafted linemen seem to be amongst the least reliable (at least as far as this franchise goes the last two decades). Then spend it on a corner back. CBs are the RBs of the defense, stop wasting high picks there. Most aren't worth offering a second contract to, so offer one to a guy who has already shown he is servicable.

[Mike Sixel]

47 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I'm not sure, but I hope it goes toward the O-Line. Top free agent linemen are perhaps the most reliable producers, and drafted linemen seem to be amongst the least reliable (at least as far as this franchise goes the last two decades). Then spend it on a corner back. CBs are the RBs of the defense, stop wasting high picks there. Most aren't worth offering a second contract to, so offer one to a guy who has already shown he is servicable.

DL,DL, DL

They have zero good starters in the front 4-5 right now.....

[nicksaviking]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

DL,DL, DL

They have zero good starters in the front 4-5 right now.....

I wouldn't be opposed to that, but the defensive front seven is where I want them to use all but one of their draft picks. Those positions seem to have a higher success rate than OL and CB.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, nicksaviking said:

I wouldn't be opposed to that, but the defensive front seven is where I want them to use all but one of their draft picks. Those positions seem to have a higher success rate than OL and CB.

Fair.....but if the front 7 isn't addressed, not even Mahomes could carry this team to the promised land.

[nicksaviking]

7 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Fair.....but if the front 7 isn't addressed, not even Mahomes could carry this team to the promised land.

Yeah, agree. They need to nail that area down. 

[gunnarthor]

I love mock drafts. This one has Jayden Daniels dropping past 11 but the Vikings taking ... Terrion Arnold, CB, Alabama. And then Daniels drops all the way down to ... Green Bay. Wow. 

I almost want that to happen just to see Nick's reaction. 

[Mike Sixel]

35 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

I love mock drafts. This one has Jayden Daniels dropping past 11 but the Vikings taking ... Terrion Arnold, CB, Alabama. And then Daniels drops all the way down to ... Green Bay. Wow. 

I almost want that to happen just to see Nick's reaction. 

Zero chance. Zero.

[Cap'n Piranha]

On 1/28/2024 at 8:01 PM, Mike Sixel said:

It's estimated Taylor Swift generated more than 330 million dollars for the chiefs this year! All you haters can suck it. More women watched the NFL than any year since 2000....

And if/when Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce break up, do all those fans stick around?  Sure worked for the Chiefs this year based on what you shared above, but I doubt if that's repeatable/sustainable (that is, did that extra $330M come from increased merch sales?  If so, I don't think all the Swifites are going to buy another custom 89 Swift jersey).

[Cap'n Piranha]

On 1/30/2024 at 9:40 AM, Mike Sixel said:

Fair.....but if the front 7 isn't addressed, not even Mahomes could carry this team to the promised land.

I don't know that even if the front 7 is addressed, we're getting to the promised land.  The best chance for the VIkings to compete this year is to resign Cousins and roll the offense back, and hope Kwesi can nail the draft.  As I've made abundantly clear on this thread, I don't have faith in his ability to do that.  As I, like Nick, don't care about being ok to good if all that means is a second round playoff exit, I would rather stockpile draft assets this year by trading back for 2025 picks (unless there's a potential franchise QB, in which case you have to take him).

[nicksaviking]

5 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

I love mock drafts. This one has Jayden Daniels dropping past 11 but the Vikings taking ... Terrion Arnold, CB, Alabama. And then Daniels drops all the way down to ... Green Bay. Wow. 

I almost want that to happen just to see Nick's reaction. 

It would be a very poor reaction indeed.

[nicksaviking]

3 hours ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

I don't know that even if the front 7 is addressed, we're getting to the promised land.  The best chance for the VIkings to compete this year is to resign Cousins and roll the offense back, and hope Kwesi can nail the draft.  As I've made abundantly clear on this thread, I don't have faith in his ability to do that.  As I, like Nick, don't care about being ok to good if all that means is a second round playoff exit, I would rather stockpile draft assets this year by trading back for 2025 picks (unless there's a potential franchise QB, in which case you have to take him).

Right, because even if that's the best chance, it's still like 2%. That's not worth it.

[gunnarthor]

On 1/30/2024 at 11:33 AM, Mike Sixel said:

DL,DL, DL

They have zero good starters in the front 4-5 right now.....

This article suggests they are thinking like that and have rumored interest in Texas' DL Byron Murphy II. If he helps stop the rush, I'm ok with it, I guess. 

[nicksaviking]

4 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

This article suggests they are thinking like that and have rumored interest in Texas' DL Byron Murphy II. If he helps stop the rush, I'm ok with it, I guess. 

I want a QB, and I like the edge rushers better at this point, but Murphy could easily push his way into that group for me. Since this team needs so dang many of them, it will probably come down to what looks better in the day 2 and 3 picks. Will there be more interesting interior guys or more interesting edge guys later in the draft? TBD until at least after the combine.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I want a QB, and I like the edge rushers better at this point, but Murphy could easily push his way into that group for me. Since this team needs so dang many of them, it will probably come down to what looks better in the day 2 and 3 picks. Will there be more interesting interior guys or more interesting edge guys later in the draft? TBD until at least after the combine.

good point, plus if they re-sign Hunter or not matter here for me.....I mean, stating FA impacts who they draft seems a bit silly given that's a truism....

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I want a QB, and I like the edge rushers better at this point, but Murphy could easily push his way into that group for me. Since this team needs so dang many of them, it will probably come down to what looks better in the day 2 and 3 picks. Will there be more interesting interior guys or more interesting edge guys later in the draft? TBD until at least after the combine.

I'm only 75% sure I really trust QB4 (or, more precisely, picking which of those 3-4 guys turns out to be the one)....but that's kind of always the risk with QB I guess.

[gunnarthor]

8 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'm only 75% sure I really trust QB4 (or, more precisely, picking which of those 3-4 guys turns out to be the one)....but that's kind of always the risk with QB I guess.

I honestly think the Vikings are hoping to resign Cousins, use #11 to take a defensive stud, and draft McCarthy at 42 and develop him. I'm not sure that can work out - QBs tend to move up draft boards really fast and McCarthy is a first rounder on several already. But I don't think the Vikings can get one of the top three. Those seem to be going 1, 2, 3.

[Mike Sixel]

9 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

I honestly think the Vikings are hoping to resign Cousins, use #11 to take a defensive stud, and draft McCarthy at 42 and develop him. I'm not sure that can work out - QBs tend to move up draft boards really fast and McCarthy is a first rounder on several already. But I don't think the Vikings can get one of the top three. Those seem to be going 1, 2, 3.

If we are to believe reports, they tried to trade up last year.....that said, I wouldn't trade out of the top 3 and give up one of those QBs....so I don't think they can get to the top 3

[gunnarthor]

10 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

If we are to believe reports, they tried to trade up last year.....that said, I wouldn't trade out of the top 3 and give up one of those QBs....so I don't think they can get to the top 3

Me neither. If Washington was willing to trade #2, I'd certainly be ok with moving up get one of them but they won't.

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

If we are to believe reports, they tried to trade up last year.....that said, I wouldn't trade out of the top 3 and give up one of those QBs....so I don't think they can get to the top 3

The Vikings are running into some really bad luck with this draft, as with most drafts I suppose. At this time there doesn't seem to be any "can't miss" defensive players that normally tempt teams in the first couple of picks. I mean, those three teams are coached by three defensive guys; it's too bad there isn't a Will Anderson, Myles Garrett, Jadeveon Clowney or another Bosa brother to temp those teams to pick them instead.

That said, Washington and New England are going to have new GMs too, and new GMs like to act like the smartest guys in the room, which often means doing the unexpected and wheeling and dealing.

I'm also not counting out any of them from really wanting Marvin Harrison and thinking they can simply pair him with Cousins to make the offense an immediate upgrade.

[Mike Sixel]

Apparently Penix and Nix were not impressive in practice at the senior bowl....

[nicksaviking]

12 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Apparently Penix and Nix were not impressive in practice at the senior bowl....

What reports where those?

Reading stuff from ESPN, sounded like Nix looked good. Reading stuff from NFL.com sounds like Penix looked good. 

For me, this time of year I'm going to relay on the big boy media outlets (though not the toady Adam Schefter), as little as I like to. Anything from 'sources' on Twitter or whatnot I'm going to presume is propaganda from teams or agents trying to sway opinion one way or another.

[Mike Sixel]

49 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

What reports where those?

Reading stuff from ESPN, sounded like Nix looked good. Reading stuff from NFL.com sounds like Penix looked good. 

For me, this time of year I'm going to relay on the big boy media outlets (though not the toady Adam Schefter), as little as I like to. Anything from 'sources' on Twitter or whatnot I'm going to presume is propaganda from teams or agents trying to sway opinion one way or another.

Interesting. I was going off tweets and comments on a fan site....

[nicksaviking]

5 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Interesting. I was going off tweets and comments on a fan site....

I'm certainly not saying my way is right. I've always been Twitter averse anyway. Probably unreasonably so.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, nicksaviking said:

I'm certainly not saying my way is right. I've always been Twitter averse anyway. Probably unreasonably so.

I left Twitter last year, so I'm looking at quotes others post. .... And I'm pretty sure the guy posting loves JJ and not the others, so there may be bias in what he finds...