Vikings Offseason Thread

[nicksaviking]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I left Twitter last year, so I'm looking at quotes others post. .... And I'm pretty sure the guy posting loves JJ and not the others, so there may be bias in what he finds...

Ha, is it a post from username JHarbaugh@wolvernines4life?

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Ha, is it a post from username JHarbaugh@wolvernines4life?

Ha, I swear this came out AFTER I made the above joke:

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/jim-harbaugh-predicts-j-j-mccarthy-will-be-the-no-1-quarterback-off-the-board

[Mike Sixel]

21 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Ha, I swear this came out AFTER I made the above joke:

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/jim-harbaugh-predicts-j-j-mccarthy-will-be-the-no-1-quarterback-off-the-board

hahahahahaha. 

[nicksaviking]

PFT interviewed Justin Jefferson. They seem to think the Vikings in-house rule about the offset language is holding up a contract:

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/justin-jefferson-remains-patient-for-a-new-deal-but-will-his-patience-with-the-vikings-run-out

I kind of thought they were done with that when they guaranteed Cousins entire contract, but I guess they made a one time exception for Cousins but won't for one of the best players in the league? 

It really seems like the front office has dropped the ball on this already. Not extending him last year was a huge mistake. If I'm Jefferson and the team bungles the QB situation, which is wholly possible no matter which path they take, I'd probably strongly consider going Tyreek Hill on the team and make them trade me. Which would likely occur after this draft, which means no immediate help with whatever he brings back in return.

[Vanimal46]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

PFT interviewed Justin Jefferson. They seem to think the Vikings in-house rule about the offset language is holding up a contract:

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/justin-jefferson-remains-patient-for-a-new-deal-but-will-his-patience-with-the-vikings-run-out

I kind of thought they were done with that when they guaranteed Cousins entire contract, but I guess they made a one time exception for Cousins but won't for one of the best players in the league? 

It really seems like the front office has dropped the ball on this already. Not extending him last year was a huge mistake. If I'm Jefferson and the team bungles the QB situation, which is wholly possible no matter which path they take, I'd probably strongly consider going Tyreek Hill on the team and make them trade me. Which would likely occur after this draft, which means no immediate help with whatever he brings back in return.

I’m still hopeful that this will work itself out and Jefferson will be a Viking for a very long time. If this situation ends up with him getting traded, it’ll be the 2nd worst personnel screw up in team history. Nothing will top the Hershel Walker trade and giving the Cowboys a dynasty in the 90s. 

[nicksaviking]

22 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

I’m still hopeful that this will work itself out and Jefferson will be a Viking for a very long time. If this situation ends up with him getting traded, it’ll be the 2nd worst personnel screw up in team history. Nothing will top the Hershel Walker trade and giving the Cowboys a dynasty in the 90s. 

Colin Coward theorized the Vikings should trade Jefferson to the Patriots for pick #3. And two first round picks.

That is the Vikings should trade Jefferson AND two first round picks for #3. What a delusional moron, it would obviously be Jefferson that would require additional firsts should the Vikings move him. Which they shouldn't.

[Vanimal46]

48 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Colin Coward theorized the Vikings should trade Jefferson to the Patriots for pick #3. And two first round picks.

That is the Vikings should trade Jefferson AND two first round picks for #3. What a delusional moron, it would obviously be Jefferson that would require additional firsts should the Vikings move him. Which they shouldn't.

That trade offer is so absurd. 

[Mike Sixel]

58 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Colin Coward theorized the Vikings should trade Jefferson to the Patriots for pick #3. And two first round picks.

That is the Vikings should trade Jefferson AND two first round picks for #3. What a delusional moron, it would obviously be Jefferson that would require additional firsts should the Vikings move him. Which they shouldn't.

hahahahahaha. No.

Now, JJ for the number 3 and a 2nd and a first plus next year? I mean, if JJ wants to be gone......but only if he wants to be gone.

[Mike Sixel]

apparently it is in the Vikings best interest to sign Kirk before valentine's day, due to cap considerations (if they are signing him). So, if that's really true, we'll know soon what the plan is....

[nicksaviking]

7 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

apparently it is in the Vikings best interest to sign Kirk before valentine's day, due to cap considerations (if they are signing him). So, if that's really true, we'll know soon what the plan is....

Yeah, that's not the plan that I want, but whatever the plan is, I want it to be in place ASAP. 

So much of the past few off seasons have seemed to be ad libbed. 

Cousins is one of the top free agents though, and unlike the MLB, the best NFL free agents seem to have deals in place as soon as free agency opens, so more likely than not, even if the Vikings instinct is to be wishy-washy, he'll force them to be decisive. 

I hope Jefferson starts forcing them to be decisive too.

[Mike Sixel]

Of course, now I'm reading we don't need a decision by then....

[Cap'n Piranha]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

hahahahahaha. No.

Now, JJ for the number 3 and a 2nd and a first plus next year? I mean, if JJ wants to be gone......but only if he wants to be gone.

You are WAY overvaluing JJ in this one.  Bill Barnwell on ESPN wrote an article a week ago (behind the pay wall, but link is below) scrutinizing what the Bears might get for the #1 pick this year.  He reminds us that just last year the Panthers gave up a legit WR (not at JJ's level of course, but still a borderline #1 receiver), and two first AND second round picks.  In 2021, the 49ers went from 12 to 3 by giving up pick 12 and two more first rounders, plus a third rounder.  I think if the Vikings wanted to shop Jefferson, they'd likely get 2 first rounders, which suggests you MIGHT be able to turn 1/11 and JJ into 1/3.  The idea that the Vikings would get anything back at all is just ludicrous.

In particular, why would the Patriots give up their first round pick this year and next year, plus a second this year for a wide receiver, even if that receiver is the best in the league?  You really think the Patriots are going to give up all that capital just to have Mac Jones/Bailey Zappe throw JJ the ball?  You think JJ is going to be ok with that scenario, and sign an extension (which I'm sure the Pats will make the deal conditional upon)?

If the Vikings want one of the top 3 QBs this year, they probably have to give up their next 3 first round picks (and maybe more) or this year's pick plus JJ (and maybe more).  The only difference might be Chicago, who could look at it as acquiring a superstar WR plus keeping their pick at 9, and going all in on Fields.  In that scenario, the Vikings get their choice of QB to pair with Addison, and probably hope that one of the top WR (Odunze or Nabers) fall to 11.  That leaves the offense in pretty great shape, and the rest of the draft can be all about defensive help.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/insider/story/_/id/39378525/trade-justin-fields-top-2024-nfl-draft-pick-bears-offseason-options-offers-interested-teams

[Cap'n Piranha]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, that's not the plan that I want, but whatever the plan is, I want it to be in place ASAP. 

So much of the past few off seasons have seemed to be ad libbed. 

Cousins is one of the top free agents though, and unlike the MLB, the best NFL free agents seem to have deals in place as soon as free agency opens, so more likely than not, even if the Vikings instinct is to be wishy-washy, he'll force them to be decisive. 

I hope Jefferson starts forcing them to be decisive too.

Agreed.  If you're not going to keep Kirk here, and you're not going to move up to a top 3 spot in the draft, I don't see the point of having JJ on the team (unless Kwesi thinks one of the second tier QBs is actually the best QB in the draft).  That being said, Orlovsky opined on ESPN today that the Vikes can't afford both Cousins and JJ (I haven't crunched numbers to see if that's true, but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest those 2 would cost between $70M-$80M a year).  If that's the case, then signing Kirk suggests the responsible thing to do for the future of the franchise is to trade JJ.  Either way, unless the Vikings get truly lucky with a QB in the draft, it seems more likely than it ever has been that JJ plays for a different team in the next year or two.

[gunnarthor]

I don't see a scenario where JJ isn't a Viking. If they can't agree to terms, I think they can franchise tag him two years in a row, right? With that and the fifth year option we hold, that means he's a Viking, no matter what, until after the 2026 season. (Unless I'm completely wrong, feel free to correct me). 

You'd have a royally pissed off WR, of course. And the franchise tags would be very, very expensive. But I believe the FO could do that. 

[Mike Sixel]

7 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

I don't see a scenario where JJ isn't a Viking. If they can't agree to terms, I think they can franchise tag him two years in a row, right? With that and the fifth year option we hold, that means he's a Viking, no matter what, until after the 2026 season. (Unless I'm completely wrong, feel free to correct me). 

You'd have a royally pissed off WR, of course. And the franchise tags would be very, very expensive. But I believe the FO could do that. 

I mean, I'd do that.....and I don't think for one minute they want to deal JJ. I'm just saying it isn't impossible. 

[Vanimal46]

3 hours ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

Agreed.  If you're not going to keep Kirk here, and you're not going to move up to a top 3 spot in the draft, I don't see the point of having JJ on the team (unless Kwesi thinks one of the second tier QBs is actually the best QB in the draft).  That being said, Orlovsky opined on ESPN today that the Vikes can't afford both Cousins and JJ (I haven't crunched numbers to see if that's true, but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest those 2 would cost between $70M-$80M a year).  If that's the case, then signing Kirk suggests the responsible thing to do for the future of the franchise is to trade JJ.  Either way, unless the Vikings get truly lucky with a QB in the draft, it seems more likely than it ever has been that JJ plays for a different team in the next year or two.

Yeah, Orlovski is wrong about that. They could extend Kirk at $40 million per year and it would barely touch the $28.5 M dead cap hit we already have on the books. Extending JJ will also put a small dent in the cap hit already on the books. I’m talking specifically about 2024. Who knows what the structure looks like down the road… that’s for people way smarter than me to figure out. 

If paying a stud QB and WR is going to bankrupt teams, then the Bengals and Cowboys are in big trouble. Burrow and Dak both have $50+ million contracts and both CeeDee Lamb and JaMarr Chase are due to get paid. 

[Vanimal46]

Note that I don’t advocate doing it, because all it does it kick the can down the road again for Kirk’s dead cap. But it can be done if Kwesi chooses to do so. 

Personally I’m letting Kirk walk, re-signing Hunter (spreading his $14.5 ish dead cap across future years), extending JJ, and use the $40ish million in cap space to sign an impact DL like Christian Wilkins, Chris Jones, or Justin Madubuike. 

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Note that I don’t advocate doing it, because all it does it kick the can down the road again for Kirk’s dead cap. But it can be done if Kwesi chooses to do so. 

Personally I’m letting Kirk walk, re-signing Hunter (spreading his $14.5 ish dead cap across future years), extending JJ, and use the $40ish million in cap space to sign an impact DL like Christian Wilkins, Chris Jones, or Justin Madubuike. 

Agreed. 

[gunnarthor]

5 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Note that I don’t advocate doing it, because all it does it kick the can down the road again for Kirk’s dead cap. But it can be done if Kwesi chooses to do so. 

Personally I’m letting Kirk walk, re-signing Hunter (spreading his $14.5 ish dead cap across future years), extending JJ, and use the $40ish million in cap space to sign an impact DL like Christian Wilkins, Chris Jones, or Justin Madubuike. 

I like this plan especially if we get one of the #4-6 QBs with our second pick. We can sign a bridge QB for one year for all I care. If they came out of the first two rounds with Dallas Turner and JJ McCarthy (whom I'm higher than you on), I'd be thrilled.

[Mike Sixel]

On 2/8/2024 at 9:07 PM, gunnarthor said:

I like this plan especially if we get one of the #4-6 QBs with our second pick. We can sign a bridge QB for one year for all I care. If they came out of the first two rounds with Dallas Turner and JJ McCarthy (whom I'm higher than you on), I'd be thrilled.

McCarthy won't be there in round two. 

[nicksaviking]

11 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

McCarthy won't be there in round two. 

Saw one mock draft with him going as the QB3.

And there's going to be more of that most likely. With either him of Nix I'd guess, they'll likely test well athletically. 

[Vanimal46]

Honestly, is it worth trying to find a “franchise QB” when Patrick Mahomes is breathing? He might be the GOAT right now. And is certainly on his way to being the GOAT if that’s too aggressive. 

[DocBauer]

Hey gang, haven't hung out here for a couple of years now simply because of Zimmer's last year, the transition to the new staff and FO, and just time split in other areas of life. Forgive me for not reading every page of the current thread. As a 58yo man who's been living and dying...sometimes crying in my youth...I remain a devout, if frustrated, Vikings fanatic.

But I'm here again because I think this offseason is important for the Vikings future like we haven't seen for a while.

Apologies presented, here I am.

The whole competitive rebuild option went out the window when Cousins was hurt. I think that's a fair statement. ONE LAST CHANCE with a new defensive coordinator, and offensive talent, this team had a shot.

I LOVE the "balance" the NFL cap and minimum offers to keep the ENTIRETY of EVERY TEAM revelavat year to year. Something that I'm hoping MLB will follow one day, and may be forced to, but that's a different discussion unto itself.

No matter how BRILLIANT the Vikings have been about contracts and kicking the can down the road, EVENTUALLY you hit that "T" intersection where you have to make a choice. And that's where the Vikings are right now.

The Vikings have a QB situation with Cousins, who wants to stay, but won't come cheap, apparently. They also have, probably, the best WR in the NFL. And they have one of the best pash rushers in all of the league in Hunter. And with cap room of about 28M...and i still can't quite figure out how all of this works, lol...they need to re-sign Cousins, Jefferson, and Hunter. Hmmm...just not going to happen.

Sorry, but Kwesi has NOT impressed me as a GM. He's not only continued the "kick the can down the road" mantra. But he's also failed as a GM when it comes to the draft. I'm 100% OK with trading down to acquire more picks. Especially if you have a deep draft and a lot of needs.

Let's look at his first 2 drafts:

Cine was a good pick, but an injury might never make him what we hoped for. Booth was an injury reach who MIGHT turn out. Evans actually looks better. Ingram was better his 2nd year, but not exactly a stud at this point. Asamoh so far has been a tease. CHANDLER might be a steal. Lowe showed potential as a young OT, but we traded him for a 6th round pick for what reason? Nailor is a flier who can't stay on the field. Muse shows some potential as a receiver TE.

This last draft:

Addison looks like a potential stud. Blackmon might be a quality CB. What did Ward do? Roy did nothing other than maybe show a little upside. Hall is about what you'd expect from a rookie QB and I'm holding out some hope for him. McBride was BARELY a practice squad RB.

KUDOS for Wright as a FA punter, massive kudos for Pace as a FA LB find. And I understand it can take a year or two for a draftee to make their mark. But other than some "maybe's" who show some potential, when 1 first round pick and a rookie FA are the biggest difference makers you've brought on so far, something is wrong.

It's time, Kwesi in charge or not, isn't it time for a rebuild instead of this "rebuild on the fly"?

Either decide to max out for a QB you truly believe is the next STUD, OR,  believe a QB who you truly like is hiding under the umbrella of rhetoric who is really good. Remember, Mahomes was the 2nd QB drafted in his class as the 10th pick.

But if this QB draft is as deep as it appears to be, you might trade back. Hell, you might even get one in the 2nd round based on projections. 

But the Wilf's need to decide after this offseason and draft if Kwesi is brilliant, or a mistake. And that's the truth. Because this team is AT a T stop where they need to choose a direction.

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Honestly, is it worth trying to find a “franchise QB” when Patrick Mahomes is breathing? He might be the GOAT right now. And is certainly on his way to being the GOAT if that’s too aggressive. 

Are you suggesting punting the next decade?

[nicksaviking]

9 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Honestly, is it worth trying to find a “franchise QB” when Patrick Mahomes is breathing? He might be the GOAT right now. And is certainly on his way to being the GOAT if that’s too aggressive. 

Still, this is the first time a team has gone back to back in 20 years. Even Brady let another team win it every other year back in the day too.

[Vanimal46]

8 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Are you suggesting punting the next decade?

No. But the exercise is pretty futile unless another team finds a legendary QB to take on Mahomes. Even that might not be enough. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Purdy was great last night. Mahomes is the goat. I was trying to picture the Vikings positional guys playing in that game last night and trading blows, and I couldn’t. 

I would be fine saying goodbye to Kirk (but ask me tomorrow) and finally tearing it down for a year as long as there is a plan to be good in 2025. A boom/bust cycle in the NFL doesn’t need to last more than a couple seasons. 

[Mike Sixel]

4 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

No. But the exercise is pretty futile unless another team finds a legendary QB to take on Mahomes. Even that might not be enough. 

KC has a very good D and the best QB in teh game (and their OL is allowed to hold every play, blatantly)....so it will be hard.

I'd deal up for Daniels if they can......but I don't see anyone trading out of the top 3 at this point. 

 

[nicksaviking]

15 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

KC has a very good D and the best QB in teh game (and their OL is allowed to hold every play, blatantly)....so it will be hard.

I'd deal up for Daniels if they can......but I don't see anyone trading out of the top 3 at this point. 

 

Too early to tell.

There's never been a year where everyone had the top three picks nailed four months ahead of time, and we're living in an age of contrarianism. The masses will be jumping on and off of the bandwagons of all of these prospects a half dozen times before the draft. Anthony Richardson and Trey Lance were late 1st rounders at this time during their draft seasons. Will Levis and Justin Fields were running with the top arms.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Too early to tell.

There's never been a year where everyone had the top three picks nailed four months ahead of time, and we're living in an age of contrarianism. The masses will be jumping on and off of the bandwagons of all of these prospects a half dozen times before the draft. Anthony Richardson and Trey Lance were late 1st rounders at this time during their draft seasons. Will Levis and Justin Fields were running with the top arms.

Sure, someone could decide not to take QB....but if you don't have a QB and then have a shot at one and don't take one, well, I'm confused what you are doing.

I guess the Bears could keep Fields....but they Vikings and Bears aren't dealing this many picks to each other, IMO (yes, I know about the trades with Detroit and GB).