2021 Postseason Discussion and Game Thread

[cHawk]

And this, my friends, is why the Twins let go of Matt Wisler.

[yeahyabetcha]

How do the Giants leave Webb in for 7.2 innings??  Don’t they know pitchers suck after 4??

[cHawk]

Today’s games:

NLDS Game 2 (Brewers Lead 1-0)
Atlanta Braves vs. Milwaukee Brewers
SP: Max Fried (Braves) vs. Brandon Woodruff (Brewers)
Time: 4:07 PM Central Standard Time
Venue: American Family Field, Milwaukee
Broadcast: TBS
Odds: Brewers -130, Braves +110

NLDS Game 2 (Giants Lead 1-0)
Los Angeles Dodgers vs. San Francisco Giants
SP: Julio Urias (Dodgers) vs. Kevin Gausman (Giants)
Time: 8:07 PM Central Standard Time
Venue: Oracle Park, San Francisco
Broadcast: TBS
Odds: Dodgers -115, Giants -105

[TheLeviathan]

I see the Giants are riding noted Ace Brandon Webb to victory!

What's that?  Logan?  Logan Webb you say?  Oh....right.....noted ace Logan Webb.

Yup, playoffs are here!

[cHawk]

Morton-Burnes and Fried-Woodruff have been great matchups.

[tony&rodney]

Dodgers-Giants is good baseball. Two teams that are put together. The Giants get a bunch from their team and the Dodgers really have a large group of players that they signed and developed or acquired by trading prospects. It is an impressive list: Buehler, Urias, Kershaw, Smith, Bellinger, Seager, and others with Betts (via Verdugo, etc.), Scherzer (via Ruiz and Gray) and a host of others by trades (Martin, Muncy, Turner) to complete their team. The playoffs are in pretty good hands this year. Despite the whooping the Red Sox put on the Rays yesterday, I am still looking for the Tampa Bay team to win it all.

[big dog]

Ex-Twin Playoff Performances, Games 1 and 2 of all series

Lance Lynn 3.2 IP, 6 H, 5 ER, 2 BB, 4 K

Ryan Pressly 2 IP, 0 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, 3 K

JT Chargois 1.1 IP, 1 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, 0 K

Liam Hendriks 1 IP, 0 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, 2 K

Matt Wisler 1 IP, 2 H, 2 ER, 1 K

Hansel Robles 1 IP, 1 H, 0 ER, 2 BB, 1 K

Brusdar Graterol 1.2 IP, 1 H, 0 ER, 2 K

Zack Littell 0.2 IP, 4 H, 3 ER, 1 K

 

Nelson Cruz 2-7 (HR), 2 R, 1 RBI, 1 BB, 1 K

Danny Santana PR, 1 R

Eddie Rosario 2-7

Eduardo Escobar 1-7, 4 K

LaMonte Wade Jr 0-4, 1 R, 1 BB, 1 K

[cHawk]

Today’s games:

ALDS Game 3 (Series Tied 1-1)
Tampa Bay Rays vs. Boston Red Sox
SP: Drew Rasmussen (Rays) vs. Nathan Eovaldi (Red Sox)
Time: 3:07 PM Central Standard Time
Venue: Fenway Park, Boston
Broadcast: MLB Network
Odds: Rays +750, Red Sox +900

ALDS Game 3 (Astros lead 2-0)
Houston Astros vs. Chicago White Sox
SP: Luis Garcia (Astros) vs. Dylan Cease (White Sox)
Time: 7:07 PM Central Standard Time
Venue: Guaranteed Rate Field, Chicago
Broadcast: FS1
Odds: White Sox -125, Astros +105 (What the literal ****) 

[cHawk]

I’m sorry, the Boston-Tampa Bay game is on MLBN, not FS1.

[tony&rodney]

MLB, under Manfred, has some real problems. A Sunday game at Fenway Park, the pre-eminent stadium in all of baseball, and it is on MLBN. I have a mlb.com subscription but don't watch regular TV, thus I am shut out. This is not a problem for me because i actually like to listen to the games on radio, but what a loss for potential baseball fans. I guess Manfred just believes that everyone is watching endless NFL games on a Sunday in the Fall. 

[cHawk]

We’re seeing the Rays lack of a starting rotation hurt them.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Ground rule double my a**

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

3 hours ago, cHawk said:

We’re seeing the Rays lack of a starting rotation hurt them.

Yeah I thought thy had starting pitching? Now they are doing bullpen games?

[tony&rodney]

The Rays announcers did a really good job of reading the exact quote of the rule on the ground rule double. Tough break for the Rays, but a taut game throughout; a good tough baseball game.

The Rays do have excellent starting pitching. They have had more pitchers injured than just about any team and are fairly conservative with how they use their rookies in terms of pitch counts. The Twins were also conservative with Ryan and Ober. I do think that playing Manfredball for two years screwed up how managers viewed their rosters. Hopefully, we will all see an end to ghost runners next year and a return to how managers view extra inning games.

Now, I have to check out how the White Sox plan on coming back.

[Mike Sixel]

Terrible rule. I teach my players to knock balls out of play now for sure. 

[TheLeviathan]

55 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Terrible rule. I teach my players to knock balls out of play now for sure. 

That play was so flukey.  How could the rules be written better?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

If I were the Rays manager I would have argued the ball was no longer a batted ball when it bounded back into the field of play towards the infield, and that the fielder then was responsible for the misplay at that point, and runner should be awarded two bases from where...

... I have no idea. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

When was the last time we saw an honest-to-goodness protest filed to challenge how a rule was applied?

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, TheLeviathan said:

That play was so flukey.  How could the rules be written better?

The umpires should be able to award another base. Though they never would. Make it a triple. No gamesmanship is available then. The fielder should be punished, not rewarded. 

[TheLeviathan]

4 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

The umpires should be able to award another base. Though they never would. Make it a triple. No gamesmanship is available then. The fielder should be punished, not rewarded. 

I guess I didn't see anything intentional or "gamesmanship" on that play.  I guess I just don't think a rule that says "Let the umpire's discretion decide what base everyone gets" will end well either.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, TheLeviathan said:

I guess I didn't see anything intentional or "gamesmanship" on that play.  I guess I just don't think a rule that says "Let the umpire's discretion decide what base everyone gets" will end well either.

Then make it a triple. There is no reason every runner shouldn't score there. The internet is literally filled with people suggesting every outfielder should try this now. Or something like it. Just punish the fielder, and rewards the hitter. There is no logical reason it is a double, it can be whatever they want.

[TheLeviathan]

7 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Then make it a triple. There is no reason every runner shouldn't score there. The internet is literally filled with people suggesting every outfielder should try this now. Or something like it. Just punish the fielder, and rewards the hitter. There is no logical reason it is a double, it can be whatever they want.

One, what a bunch of people are saying on the internet about how guys just magically take one fluke opportunity a year and bat it into the stands isn't a good reason to make a rule change. 

Two, why not have that happen for every ball that bounces into the stands, fielder or not?  A guy hits a one hopper over the wall and we call it a double whether it's Buxton or Pujols.  While that may not be fair, but it may be (I tend to think it is) better than regularly making plays like this  a complicated computation for an umpiring crew to work out as far as who was on base, who was fielding, how strong their arm was, how fast the runners are, how efficiently they are rounding the bases, etc. and determine where everyone goes at the end of the play.  I simply do not see a rule that open-ended going well over time.  This was a fluke.  Flukes need not rewrite the rule book IMO.

[cHawk]

NLDS Game 3 (Series Tied 1-1)
Milwaukee Brewers vs. Atlanta Braves
SP: Freddy Peralta (Brewers) vs. Ian Anderson (Braves)
Time: 12:07 PM Central Standard Time
Venue: Truist Park, Atlanta
Broadcast: TBS
Odds: Braves -110, Brewers -110

ALDS Game 4 (Astros Lead 2-1)
Houston Astros vs. Chicago White Sox
SP: Jose Urquidy (Astros) vs. Carlos Rodon (White Sox)
Time: 2:37 PM Central Standard Time
Venue: Guaranteed Rate Field, Chicago
Broadcast: FS1
Odds: White Sox -130, Astros +110

ALDS Game 4 (Red Sox Lead 2-1)
Tampa Bay Rays vs. Boston Red Sox
SP: TBA (Rays) vs. Eduardo Rodriguez (Red Sox)
Time: 6:07 PM Central Standard Time
Venue: Fenway Park, Boston
Broadcast: FS1
Odds: Red Sox -125, Rays +105

NLDS Game 3 (Series Tied 1-1)
San Francisco Giants vs. Los Angeles Dodgers
SP: Alex Wood (Giants) vs. Max Scherzer (Dodgers)
Time: 8:37 PM Central Standard Time
Venue: Dodger Stadium, Los Angeles
Broadcast: TBS
Odds: Dodgers -210, Giants +175

[Otto von Ballpark]

The rule in question is 5.06(b)(4) apparently -- and while umpires didn't have discretion to place runners in that specific situation last night, there are already similar rules about letting runners advance 2 bases from their position when the ball goes out of play, which would have allowed the Rays to score (rather than 2 bases from when the ball was pitched, which held the Rays lead runner at 3rd).

So the rule governing last night's situation could easily be modified to include the same, without opening up any kind of Pandora's box. No umpire discretion is involved, really. Should be easier to administer now than ever before, with synchronized replay cameras (like they use for runners tagging from third on fly balls) -- if a team doesn't agree with an umpire's placement of runners, it could be reviewed.

Rule Book (PDF)

From page 28, in the circumstance of a wild throw by a fielder (emphasis mine). EDIT TO ADD: Just to be clear, this should not have been the ruling last night -- it wasn't a wild throw, and the umpires got it right, according to the current rule book -- but this is an example of how the rule could be modified going forward.

Quote

Two bases when, with no spectators on the playing field, a thrown ball goes into the stands, or into a bench (whether or not the ball rebounds into the field), or over or under or through a field fence, or on a slanting part of the screen above the backstop, or remains in the meshes of a wire screen protecting spectators. The ball is dead. When such wild throw is the first play by an infielder, the umpire, in awarding such bases, shall be governed by the position of the runners at the time the ball was pitched; in all other cases the umpire shall be governed by the position of the runners at the time the wild throw was made;

APPROVED RULING: If all runners, including the batter-runner, have advanced at least one base when an infielder makes a wild throw on the first play after the pitch, the award shall be governed by the position of the runners when the wild throw was made.

[cHawk]

@Otto von Ballpark the problem with that is that it wasn’t a wild throw. It bounced off of Renfroe and out of play, where it became dead, and Renfroe is clearly the reason the ball became dead.

[cHawk]

Also, UPDATE: Astros vs. White Sox has been postponed due to severe weather.

[Otto von Ballpark]

27 minutes ago, cHawk said:

@Otto von Ballpark the problem with that is that it wasn’t a wild throw. It bounced off of Renfroe and out of play, where it became dead, and Renfroe is clearly the reason the ball became dead.

I know that wasn't the appropriate ruling for last night's play, sorry if I wasn't clear. I was just sharing that as an example of where the rules already allow for a different outcome, under slightly different circumstances. 

It seems like it would be trivial, going forward, to simply amend the rule to treat last night's play (a fair ball, not in flight, striking an outfielder before going out of play) just like a wild throw, and letting runners advance 2 bases from their current position at the time it goes out of play.

[Otto von Ballpark]

35 minutes ago, cHawk said:

Also, UPDATE: Astros vs. White Sox has been postponed due to severe weather.

I was just about to say how today is the last day of the year with four Major League Baseball games. But now, that is no longer true!

Although now today has 3 games, and tomorrow has 3 games, so that's pretty good too.

[MMMordabito]

23 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

MLB, under Manfred, has some real problems. 

Just wait ... If the Braves make it to the World Series, they'll probably have to play their home games in Colorado.

[cHawk]

4 hours ago, MMMordabito said:

Just wait ... If the Braves make it to the World Series, they'll probably have to play their home games in Colorado.

Just imagine telling me before the season that Coors would host a World Series game…