Rosenthal: Gardy's Job Prospects

[Brad Swanson]

I might be alone here, and possibly too sentimental, but I don't want to see Gardenhire managing another team. I've been critical of him at times, but I generally like him and hope he stays on after 2013.

[Physics Guy]

I might be alone here, and possibly too sentimental, but I don't want to see Gardenhire managing another team. I've been critical of him at times, but I generally like him and hope he stays on after 2013.

 

I agree if the Twins can make some progress this season. I guess my number one critique this season for Gardy will be how he handles the young guys. That should determine whether he stays since that will be a big part of his job the next few seasons.

[IdahoPilgrim]

Explain to me what's so great about his track record? A few meaningless division titles in the most mediocre division in baseball? Beating up on the softies in the Central and always playing scared against the big boys out east? Abysmal playoff futility of historic proportions? Robotic managing? Not sending his starter out for the next inning if he's at 95 pitches (no matter how good he's going)? Burning out his bullpen by July? Batting Matt Tolbert 2nd?

 

I challenge the concept that a division title is ever meaningless. And I indicated I was not happy with his playoff record, although I think "abysmal playoff futility of historic proportions" is the kind of rhetoric that detracts from your argument rather than supplements it. It led me to disregard the rest of your post.

[Riverbrian]

I might be alone here, and possibly too sentimental, but I don't want to see Gardenhire managing another team. I've been critical of him at times, but I generally like him and hope he stays on after 2013.

 

lol... Maybe not alone... But it can feel like Butch and Sundance at the end of the movie.

[Riverbrian]

I agree if the Twins can make some progress this season. I guess my number one critique this season for Gardy will be how he handles the young guys. That should determine whether he stays since that will be a big part of his job the next few seasons.

 

I'll be primarily interested in how the rotation is handled this year. No more plus sixers starting games please... How do they utilize the options? If someone is struggling how are they handled?

[jokin]

At least 95% of them. He's a good soul with an opinion. His biggest problem is his sense of pride over Alex Trebec.

 

...and Neil Young...

[jokin]

I'll be primarily interested in how the rotation is handled this year. No more plus sixers starting games please... How do they utilize the options? If someone is struggling how are they handled?

 

Sorry, but Correia is in the rotation until his arm falls off- remember the fashionably acceptable "new normal" to rally around this year- 4-5 runs allowed over 5-6 innings...yaay!

[LastOnePicked]

Gardy's quotes even about the simplest of reasons why the Twins lost a meaningless Spring Training game to the Red Sox today (Minnesota Twins: Eduardo Escobar's base-running blunder irritates Gardenhire - TwinCities.com) are, to me, further proof that he can't keep his emotions in check, and that he hasn't learned that discretion is the better part of valor. Say what you want to the players, Gardy, but shut up to the media -- because you can only make things worse by trying to make yourself look good and your players look bad. Again, though I have some respect, I'm looking forward to his replacement sooner than later.

[ThePuck]

Gardy's quotes even about the simplest of reasons why the Twins lost a meaningless Spring Training game to the Red Sox today (Minnesota Twins: Eduardo Escobar's base-running blunder irritates Gardenhire - TwinCities.com) are, to me, further proof that he can't keep his emotions in check, and that he hasn't learned that discretion is the better part of valor. Say what you want to the players, Gardy, but shut up to the media -- because you can only make things worse by trying to make yourself look good and your players look bad. Again, though I have some respect, I'm looking forward to his replacement sooner than later.

 

That's Gardy...

[jokin]

Seems a little premature to start writing his Twins managerial obit before the Twins have played an inning in 2013.

 

I have seen signs of humility that were noticeably lacking during the Smith years. Smith seemed to defer to Gardy a lot on roster construction (trading Hardy to make room for Nishioka, e.g.). Ryan does none of that. He's put his stamp on the roster and coaching staff and he expects Gardy to work with his people and innovate. To Gardy's credit, he's said he's willing to try new things. Today's Berardino story is an example of how he's even considering breaking the mold of having the #2 hitter as a slap and sacrifice guy and using a run producer ( Mauer) instead.

 

All these are signs of a new and improved Gardy. How much that affects his ability to manage a winner and, therefore, keep his job, is an open question. That's why we play the games.

 

All well and good in said article, except this:

 

What else (should) a #2 hitter be able to do?

 

"Bunt," Gardenhire said. "Get 'em over. Be able to shoot the ball the other way with a man on second. All those things. Basically, handle the bat. That's a No. 2 guy."

 

And further proof suggesting the difficulty of teaching the old dog new tricks:

 

The old-school baseball man couldn't resist, however, getting in one more dig at the growing influence of "cybermetrics," as he likes to call it.

"Once we start, I'll make that final decision," Gardenhire says. "I'll sit down with my staff and our stat guy and see what that computer spits out, and then we'll go from there. If it's coughing, then I'll do it my way."

 

 

As Beradino aptly points out (he is an excellent addition to the Twins beat!), the game has evolved and Gardy clearly is still far behind the curve:

 

"People say Joe Mauer should hit second or whatever, but do we really want 'Man on second base and Joe Mauer coming up,' and he's shooting it over the other way? I don't know about that. That's not his game. Just hitting is his game, but he could do it."

Digest that for a second.

Gardenhire wouldn't really ask a three-time batting champion, who has basically been entrenched as the Twins' No. 3 hitter for the past decade, to take perfectly hittable pitches just so Hicks can have a few cracks at stealing second?

 

 

It sounded like Mauer was diplomatic but reading between the lines, was all for the move. In the meantime, Gardy apparently forgets about the Twins 7-time batting champ who primarily batted 2nd and put up 328/393/429/822 for a career. The only thing Mauer can't (shouldn't) do that Carew could do is bunt. His career 323/405/468/873 speaks for itself, and since there is no logical alternative at #2, it's fairly obvious that putting the guy who OPS'd at all of .275 last year and cracked under the pressure (Dozier) should be at the bottom of the order and the best hitters should all move up one place in the lineup.

[jokin]

Gardy's quotes even about the simplest of reasons why the Twins lost a meaningless Spring Training game to the Red Sox today (Minnesota Twins: Eduardo Escobar's base-running blunder irritates Gardenhire - TwinCities.com) are, to me, further proof that he can't keep his emotions in check, and that he hasn't learned that discretion is the better part of valor. Say what you want to the players, Gardy, but shut up to the media -- because you can only make things worse by trying to make yourself look good and your players look bad. Again, though I have some respect, I'm looking forward to his replacement sooner than later.

 

Sounds like he's already sized up one of his whipping boys for 2013.

[Seth Stohs]

Fun revisionist history kind of stuff...

 

Had Gardy kept Balfour in for another inning and he would have given up runs, there would be some who wondered why Rincon, one of the best 8th inning guys that year, wasn't brought in and why Gardy would still with Balfour who had done very little to that point.

 

Kubel vs Mariano - did it really matter who hit in that situation vs Rivera?

 

I find it interesting that we didn't want Kubel to go against Rivera cuz he was a rookie, but at the same time wanted a guy with about 2 months of big league time (Crain) to replaced Joe Nathan.

 

Baseball is a game full of second-guessable moments. If people are looking for reasons to complain, baseball gives plenty of opportunities!

[twinsnorth49]

I don't quite understand this belief that Gardy is bad with young players, I mean he's worked with a lot of young players who later became successful with the team. It seems he gets a lot of flak for being a bit of a straightshooter with some young players who just are not all that good and perhaps don't appreciate the truth.

 

I know there has been talk of him throwing some younger players under the bus last year and that caused some apparent unrest. I still believe there was not a single young player last year that had earned any right to cop that attitude, they should all feel fortunate to be playing at the major league level at all.

 

Hope this added to the conversation, hopefully it ups my percentage of non-trolling posts to 61%.

[howeda7]

If the Twins improve this year, why are people so eager to see Gardy fired? The 'he's been here too long, his message is stale' thing is such crap. None of the players on the team were here in 2002. Only 2 or 3 were here in 2007. He's generally shown that can handle young players.

 

If we lose 99 games again, make a change for the sake of change I guess. But if this team is sniffing .500 and you still want him gone, then you're being unreasonable.

[Thrylos]

If the Twins improve this year, why are people so eager to see Gardy fired? .

 

Because some of us want the Twins to win the World Series not to "improve" from 99+96. If the Twins lose 90, is that a wonderful improvement?

[Shane Wahl]

All well and good in said article, except this:

 

 

 

And further proof suggesting the difficulty of teaching the old dog new tricks:

 

 

 

As Beradino aptly points out (he is an excellent addition to the Twins beat!), the game has evolved and Gardy clearly is still far behind the curve:

 

 

 

It sounded like Mauer was diplomatic but reading between the lines, was all for the move. In the meantime, Gardy apparently forgets about the Twins 7-time batting champ who primarily batted 2nd and put up 328/393/429/822 for a career. The only thing Mauer can't (shouldn't) do that Carew could do is bunt. His career 323/405/468/873 speaks for itself, and since there is no logical alternative at #2, it's fairly obvious that putting the guy who OPS'd at all of .275 last year and cracked under the pressure (Dozier) should be at the bottom of the order and the best hitters should all move up one place in the lineup.

 

Exactly. And these comments coupled with the terrible comments about Escobar and Pelfrey in the game article make me cringe. His first word in response to what a 2-hole hitter should do was "bunt." How terribly stupid is that!?

[old nurse]

I don't quite understand this belief that Gardy is bad with young players, I mean he's worked with a lot of young players who later became successful with the team. It seems he gets a lot of flak for being a bit of a straightshooter with some young players who just are not all that good and perhaps don't appreciate the truth.

 

 

I know there has been talk of him throwing some younger players under the bus last year and that caused some apparent unrest. I still believe there was not a single young player last year that had earned any right to cop that attitude, they should all feel fortunate to be playing at the major league level at all.

 

Hope this added to the conversation, hopefully it ups my percentage of non-trolling posts to 61%.

You troll? To accuse you of that would be absurd. I missed something that is probably not worth looking up.

[old nurse]

It sounded like Mauer was diplomatic but reading between the lines, was all for the move. In the meantime, Gardy apparently forgets about the Twins 7-time batting champ who primarily batted 2nd and put up 328/393/429/822 for a career. The only thing Mauer can't (shouldn't) do that Carew could do is bunt. His career 323/405/468/873 speaks for itself, and since there is no logical alternative at #2, it's fairly obvious that putting the guy who OPS'd at all of .275 last year and cracked under the pressure (Dozier) should be at the bottom of the order and the best hitters should all move up one place in the lineup.

 

from the story a Mauer quote

"Whether I'm hitting third or second, I don't know. I don't have the answer right now. I don't need to figure it out."

That does not hint at "I am for it"

 

As fpr a Carew/Mauer comparison. Carew was a singles hitter. Mauer has shown more power and more patience in drawing more walks. Not at all the same kind of hitter.

[Shane Wahl]

Gleeman tweets that Mauer is going to be batting second. Hooray!

[ThePuck]

Hooray, let's give our best hitter with RISP LESS opportunities w/RISP!...

[Shane Wahl]

Hooray, let's give our best hitter with RISP LESS opportunities w/RISP!...

 

Another Gleeman tweet: "Decades of research shows that teams score more runs when their best hitter bats second."

 

Do you really believe that he will have fewer opportunities with RISP when he moves UP in the order (getting a several more plate appearances)? How often did he come up with RISP in the first inning last year?

 

I would take a good chance that either Hicks or Mauer is on base (and sometimes both) for Willingham and Morneau with one or no outs over a poorer chance that Hicks or X is on base and Mauer up with one out.

 

This just seems a bit obvious, Puck. Do you have info on chances with RISP by position in the order?

[nicksaviking]

You guys are missing the most frustrating part of the Beradino article for me.

 

The last paragraph about deciding who will bat second:

 

"Once we start, I'll make that final decision," Gardenhire says. "I'll sit

down with my staff and our stat guy and see what that computer spits out, and

then we'll go from there. If it's coughing, then I'll do it my way."

 

And before that he dispragingly called Sabrmetrics "Cybermetrics."

 

This pretty closely echoed what Ryan said this offseason. The team has 1 "stat guy" and in their opinion, his function within the organization is a source of derision and punchlines.

 

Grow up, this isn't 1980's baseball any longer; it's a multi-billion dollar industry and your competitors are using every tool at thier disposal to come out on top while you shake your head and say their is not room for evolution in MY game.

[jokin]

Another Gleeman tweet: "Decades of research shows that teams score more runs when their best hitter bats second."

 

Do you really believe that he will have fewer opportunities with RISP when he moves UP in the order (getting a several more plate appearances)? How often did he come up with RISP in the first inning last year?

 

I would take a good chance that either Hicks or Mauer is on base (and sometimes both) for Willingham and Morneau with one or no outs over a poorer chance that Hicks or X is on base and Mauer up with one out.

 

This just seems a bit obvious, Puck. Do you have info on chances with RISP by position in the order?

 

Gleeman and Wahl for the match!...(especially given the alternatives on the roster for batting second).

[ThePuck]

Another Gleeman tweet: "Decades of research shows that teams score more runs when their best hitter bats second."

 

Do you really believe that he will have fewer opportunities with RISP when he moves UP in the order (getting a several more plate appearances)? How often did he come up with RISP in the first inning last year?

 

I would take a good chance that either Hicks or Mauer is on base (and sometimes both) for Willingham and Morneau with one or no outs over a poorer chance that Hicks or X is on base and Mauer up with one out.

 

This just seems a bit obvious, Puck. Do you have info on chances with RISP by position in the order?

 

Yes, because in 20-25% of his AB he'll only have, at most, Hicks in front of him...and not necessarily in scoring position cause no one will have had a chance to move him over from 1st if he only got a single and didn't steal. He certainly will never have two guys with RISP in that first AB.

[ThePuck]

Gleeman and Wahl for the match!...(especially given the alternatives on the roster for batting second).

 

I'm glad you think so...

[jokin]

You guys are missing the most frustrating part of the Beradino article for me.

 

The last paragraph about deciding who will bat second:

 

"Once we start, I'll make that final decision," Gardenhire says. "I'll sit

down with my staff and our stat guy and see what that computer spits out, and

then we'll go from there. If it's coughing, then I'll do it my way."

 

And before that he dispragingly called Sabrmetrics "Cybermetrics."

 

This pretty closely echoed what Ryan said this offseason. The team has 1 "stat guy" and in their opinion, his function within the organization is a source of derision and punchlines.

 

Grow up, this isn't 1980's baseball any longer; it's a multi-billion dollar industry and your competitors are using every tool at thier disposal to come out on top while you shake your head and say their is not room for evolution in MY game.

 

Exactly what appalled me, as well, a guy whose team is coming off of 2 disastrous seasons is in no position to be sarcastic and condescending.

 

But then again, maybe Gardy and Ryan are actually on to something-- after all, there is plenty of "room" for fossils in any discussion of "evolution."

[jokin]

I'm glad you think so...

 

The stats are pretty convincing, it really doesn't require much additional thought.

[Shane Wahl]

Yes, you are taking away the first inning from him, but after that?

 

But what is the overall point? The number of runs produced is what is important. And

while Mauer has been best with RISP he is also the best at "setting the table." In the first inning, I submit the claim that getting two OBP guys in front of three sluggers (including Doumit) is going to be the best way to generate runs. Think about the benefit of guaranteeing Willingham and Mauer both batting in that first inning. Think about the benefit of getting two sluggers to the plate in the first inning if either a run is already scored or one of the first three batters gets on.

[ThePuck]

The stats are pretty convincing, it really doesn't require much additional thought.

 

If you say so...I'm glad those convince you. My point was he'll have less opps with RISP batting 2nd. What stats show that isn't true?

[Shane Wahl]

If you say so...I'm glad those convince you. My point was he'll have less opps with RISP batting 2nd. What stats show that isn't true?

 

That is not the only factor for the generation of runs for the 2013 Twins!