Game Thread: Twins @ Chicago White Sox, 7/1921 @ 4:10pmCT

[Brock Beauchamp]

8 minutes ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

Routine ground balls to second are so boring.  Ban them already.

The obvious difference being that no one really intends to hit a grounder to second while the shift is very intentional and leads to less action, which is baseball’s biggest immediate problem. 

[RickOShea]

Has anyone picked up why Rortvedt pats the dirt before some pitches?

[Aggies7]

Robles never had a clean inning in his life 

[Cap'n Piranha]

1 minute ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

The obvious difference being that no one really intends to hit a grounder to second while the shift is very intentional and leads to less action, which is baseball’s biggest immediate problem. 

It doesn't lead to less action, it leads to fewer hits.  You know what else leads to less action?  Intentional unintentional balls.  Pick off attempts.  Catchers throwing behind runners after pitches.

The big problem baseball has is that putting balls in play has been deemphasized.  The best way to fix that is to make having baserunners more valuable.  Make it worth it for lefties to go the other way against the shift, and it will go away.  Quickly.

[Cap'n Piranha]

2 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Robles never had a clean inning in his life 

He's had 10, just this year.

[Aggies7]

Just now, Cap'n Piranha said:

He's had 10, just this year.

Sarcasm ?

[Brock Beauchamp]

Just now, Cap'n Piranha said:

It doesn't lead to less action, it leads to fewer hits.  You know what else leads to less action?  Intentional unintentional balls.  Pick off attempts.  Catchers throwing behind runners after pitches.

The big problem baseball has is that putting balls in play has been deemphasized.  The best way to fix that is to make having baserunners more valuable.  Make it worth it for lefties to go the other way against the shift, and it will go away.  Quickly.

The shift promotes the launch angle revolution, though, by reducing BABIP in general and against lefties. It encourages going for barrel contact above all else because barrel contact has such a high expected average.

In a *spectator* sport, I see no reason for the shift to exist. It doesn’t make the game better or more entertaining, it just leads to less defensive action and fewer base runners. 

[downunder twins fan]

One more out...

[RickOShea]

3 minutes ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

It doesn't lead to less action, it leads to fewer hits.  You know what else leads to less action?  Intentional unintentional balls.  Pick off attempts.  Catchers throwing behind runners after pitches.

The big problem baseball has is that putting balls in play has been deemphasized.  The best way to fix that is to make having baserunners more valuable.  Make it worth it for lefties to go the other way against the shift, and it will go away.  Quickly.

If you don't eliminate the shift, how do you make it worth it for lefties to go the other way?

[Nine of twelve]

Robles with a good audition for the scouts.

[ashbury]

Winnah!  Too early for dinner.  Chicken mid-afternoon snack. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

4 minutes ago, RickOShea said:

If you don't eliminate the shift, how do you make it worth it for lefties to go the other way?

Lefties have had the opportunity to go the other way for several years now and just don’t do it. It’s time to admit it’s not going to happen and adjust the rules accordingly.

[Brock Beauchamp]

A doubleheader extra inning game against the White Sox.The Twins should have found a way to lose this game three times. 

[sampleSizeOfOne]

9 minutes ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

He's had 10, just this year.

Not that he would call them living.

[RickOShea]

1 minute ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Lefties have had the opportunity to go the other way for several years now and just don’t do it. It’s time to admit it’s not going to happen and adjust the rules accordingly.

So, you eliminate the shift?   Or institute what rule?  There's no honor system in baseball.

[Cap'n Piranha]

1 minute ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

The shift promotes the launch angle revolution, though, by reducing BABIP in general and against lefties. It encourages going for barrel contact above all else because barrel contact has such a high expected average.

In a *spectator* sport, I see no reason for the shift to exist. It doesn’t make the game better or more entertaining, it just leads to less defensive action and fewer base runners. 

3 outfielders and 4 infielders also reduces BABIP; let's reduce that so we can have more hits.

Football is also a spectator sport, and has no qualms about allowing the defense to do whatever it wants on it's side of the line of scrimmage.  The problem is not the shift.  The problem is front offices that don't insist players learn to hit the other way, and find gaps in the defense.  Maybe this will start to change--look at CWS, for example.

The White Sox are 3rd in runs, but are 23rd in homers, 15th in hard hit rate, 20th in barrels.  How?  They're 4th in average, 1st in OBP, and 3rd in opposite field rate, which could be tied to being 1st in babip (hit it where they ain't).

[Brock Beauchamp]

Just now, RickOShea said:

So, you eliminate the shift?   Or institute what rule?  There's no honor system in baseball.

I’ve been in favor of eliminating the shift for a couple of seasons now. It has become prolific and frankly, brings nothing interesting to the game from a spectator experience. Everyone has their book on a hitter and automatically shifts them. It’s not worth keeping in my eyes. 

[Cap'n Piranha]

1 minute ago, RickOShea said:

So, you eliminate the shift?   Or institute what rule?  There's no honor system in baseball.

This is a joke right?  There are raging debates about unwritten rules every year.  If that's not an honor system, I don't know what is.

[sampleSizeOfOne]

Klytus, i'm bored...

 

How long until the next game?

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 minute ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

3 outfielders and 4 infielders also reduces BABIP; let's reduce that so we can have more hits.

Football is also a spectator sport, and has no qualms about allowing the defense to do whatever it wants on it's side of the line of scrimmage.  The problem is not the shift.  The problem is front offices that don't insist players learn to hit the other way, and find gaps in the defense.  Maybe this will start to change--look at CWS, for example.

The White Sox are 3rd in runs, but are 23rd in homers, 15th in hard hit rate, 20th in barrels.  How?  They're 4th in average, 1st in OBP, and 3rd in opposite field rate, which could be tied to being 1st in babip (hit it where they ain't).

The first comment is just terrible. Stay away from strawman points.

Football is a good example of why they SHOULD ban the shift. Football changes the rules to improve the on-field action all the time and have loads of rules on where players can stand, when they can move, whether they can touch the ball, etc. 

[Cap'n Piranha]

Just now, Brock Beauchamp said:

I’ve been in favor of eliminating the shift for a couple of seasons now. It has become prolific and frankly, brings nothing interesting to the game from a spectator experience. Everyone has their book on a hitter and automatically shifts them. It’s not worth keeping in my eyes. 

So with no shift, there will be even less reason to try and go the other way, leading to more pull hitting, which will inevitably be tied to a desire for optimal launch angles in order to hit home runs.  So...eliminating the shift will do...what, exactly?

[sampleSizeOfOne]

9 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Winnah!  Too early for dinner.  Chicken mid-afternoon snack. 

Where might i come by one of these?

 

Or am i doomed to settle for another fluff'n'nutter?

[Cap'n Piranha]

Just now, Brock Beauchamp said:

The first comment is just terrible. Stay away from strawman points.

Football is a good example of why they SHOULD ban the shift. Football changes the rules to improve the on-field action all the time and have loads of rules on where players can stand, when they can move, whether they can touch the ball, etc. 

First comment is not a strawman.  You said you didn't like the shift because it reduces babip, I offered another fact of baseball that reduces babip.  If the goal is to increase babip, reducing the number of fielders is the quickest and easiest way to do that.

I will also note that every rule area in football you mentioned here applies ONLY to the offense, and NEVER to the defense (other than not being able to stand on the offense's side of the line of scrimmage).  This is much like baseball, where the players on offense are told where they can stand, when they can move, and whether they can make contact with the ball.

[wsnydes]

20 minutes ago, sampleSizeOfOne said:

Where might i come by one of these?

 

Or am i doomed to settle for another fluff'n'nutter?

It's National Ice Cream Day, have a heaping bowl of ice cream instead!

Edit: I've brought to my own attention that it was actually yesterday...

[RickOShea]

17 minutes ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

3 outfielders and 4 infielders also reduces BABIP; let's reduce that so we can have more hits.

Football is also a spectator sport, and has no qualms about allowing the defense to do whatever it wants on it's side of the line of scrimmage.  The problem is not the shift.  The problem is front offices that don't insist players learn to hit the other way, and find gaps in the defense.  Maybe this will start to change--look at CWS, for example.

The White Sox are 3rd in runs, but are 23rd in homers, 15th in hard hit rate, 20th in barrels.  How?  They're 4th in average, 1st in OBP, and 3rd in opposite field rate, which could be tied to being 1st in babip (hit it where they ain't).

Football is also a spectator sport, and has no qualms about allowing the defense to do whatever it wants on it's side of the line of scrimmage.

5 yard contact rule, no contact to the receiver if ball in air, illegal pick, etc.  Several rules debunk your statemnt.

I also don't appreciate your 'strawman' comment.  I'm not trolling, just trying to put forth a valid point.

[ashbury]

23 minutes ago, sampleSizeOfOne said:

Where might i come by one of these?

Your kitchen.

https://foodmeanderings.com/buffalo-pulled-chicken-sandwich/

[sampleSizeOfOne]

Apparently the Chicago feed is live and in warmup, but not Minnesota's.

[Danchat]

Looks like Garver is in the lineup hitting #6, and Rortvedt appears to have been sent down. Maybe he can pick up where he left off, as he was hitting well before the injury.

[ashbury]

Just now, Danchat said:

Looks like Garver is in the lineup hitting #6, and Rortvedt appears to have been sent down. Maybe he can pick up where he left off, as he was hitting well before the injury.

Sound roster management. Garver wasn't going to catch both games, so let the guy going down catch the first one.

[sampleSizeOfOne]

1 minute ago, ashbury said:

Your kitchen.

https://foodmeanderings.com/buffalo-pulled-chicken-sandwich/

Alas, i am lazy, and fluff'n'nutter is less effort, and less likely to go bad if i am slow to make it.