Non-Twins Off-season news, tidbits and transactions

[beckmt]

According to MLBtraderumors the Angels are also signing Trevor Cahill, around 1 year 9 Million dollars.  

 

 

[Danchat]

According to MLBtraderumors the Angels are also signing Trevor Cahill, around 1 year 9 Million dollars.

I guess the Angels are also on board with these 1 year deals. They already have a handful of decent starters, so they’ve got some depth to work with now.

[cmoss84]

Angels need to trade Trout while they can to get the most for him. That team is no where near contending for anything, and signing Harvey and Cahill does nothing. 

 

I live close to LA and have a bunch of Angel-fan buddies who have been frustrated with the organization the last few years, and always talk about Trout being wasted. 

[Vanimal46]

Angels need to trade Trout while they can to get the most for him. That team is no where near contending for anything, and signing Harvey and Cahill does nothing.

 

I live close to LA and have a bunch of Angel-fan buddies who have been frustrated with the organization the last few years, and always talk about Trout being wasted.

Problem is there's no way they can find fair value in a trade for Trout. I'd love to see what that looks like. Just don't see it being feasible.

 

Plus, I'm sure the Angels GM doesn't want to be remembered as the person who traded a generational player.

[Mr. Brooks]

Angels need to trade Trout while they can to get the most for him. That team is no where near contending for anything, and signing Harvey and Cahill does nothing.

 

I live close to LA and have a bunch of Angel-fan buddies who have been frustrated with the organization the last few years, and always talk about Trout being wasted.

The Angels were 2 games below .500 last year, with a crazy amount of injuries.

They aren't that far away. Plus, Trout is such a generational player that they can wait until the last minute to trade him without losing much value. Mainly because a single team couldn't even offer fair value at this point, it's impossible, every single prospect in the best farm system isn't enough.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Problem is there's no way they can find fair value in a trade for Trout. I'd love to see what that looks like. Just don't see it being feasible.

Plus, I'm sure the Angels GM doesn't want to be remembered as the person who traded a generational player.

 

I don't get this argument.....fair or not, they could get 4 or 5 really good to great prospects. That's better than nothing. Which is what they'll get in a few years.

[Vanimal46]

I don't get this argument.....fair or not, they could get 4 or 5 really good to great prospects. That's better than nothing. Which is what they'll get in a few years.

It may become reality in 2020 when he's on the last year of his deal... For now, I'd rather earn 10 WAR from Trout and fill in the pieces elsewhere than hope the 4-5 great prospects earn 10 WAR.

[cmoss84]

 

The Angels were 2 games below .500 last year, with a crazy amount of injuries.
They aren't that far away. Plus, Trout is such a generational player that they can wait until the last minute to trade him without losing much value. Mainly because a single team couldn't even offer fair value at this point, it's impossible, every single prospect in the best farm system isn't enough.

Their offense/defense is okay to above average, but their pitching staff is BAD. Maybe if they were in our division they could go for it. But Hou/Oak are pretty tough and Sea isn't horrible. If they want to contend, they better sign pitchers other than Harvey and Cahill. That was my point...and if they aren't going to, sell Trout now before the last year of his contract.

Like Mike said, you might not get "fair" value, but 4-5 really good prospects would go a long way to rebuilding and having a team ready by the end of Pujol's contract. 

[Mr. Brooks]

Their offense/defense is okay to above average, but their pitching staff is BAD. Maybe if they were in our division they could go for it. But Hou/Oak are pretty tough and Sea isn't horrible. If they want to contend, they better sign pitchers other than Harvey and Cahill. That was my point...and if they aren't going to, sell Trout now before the last year of his contract.

Like Mike said, you might not get "fair" value, but 4-5 really good prospects would go a long way to rebuilding and having a team ready by the end of Pujol's contract.

Personally, if I have possibly the best player to ever play the game, I'm not trading him until I absolutely have to.

[Mr. Brooks]

Daniel Murphy signs with Colorado, 2/24.

[Vanimal46]

Personally, if I have possibly the best player to ever play the game, I'm not trading him until I absolutely have to.

I agree. It's really as simple as that. No one else in the game can provide 10 WAR by themselves. Especially at a premium position.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Their offense/defense is okay to above average, but their pitching staff is BAD. Maybe if they were in our division they could go for it. But Hou/Oak are pretty tough and Sea isn't horrible. If they want to contend, they better sign pitchers other than Harvey and Cahill. That was my point...and if they aren't going to, sell Trout now before the last year of his contract.

 

FWIW, the Angels were 8th in runs scored last year, and 8th in runs allowed. Their pitching staff lacks star power, but it's not that bad.

 

Seattle got lucky last year (+12 wins over their Pythag record) and are tearing down a bit, and while Oakland had a nice year, it was built on largely the kind of pitchers you deride the Angels for acquiring -- Cahill, Edwin Jackson, etc.

 

The Angels have absolutely not capitalized on having Trout, but that doesn't mean they have to deal him. In addition to Trout, they have Simmons in his prime, Upton still good, Ohtani. And some serviceable starters and relievers.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I don't get this argument.....fair or not, they could get 4 or 5 really good to great prospects. That's better than nothing. Which is what they'll get in a few years.

Setting aside how many teams even have "4 to 5 good to great prospects" to trade for Mike Trout --

 

You do realize the Angels have the financial resources to potentially re-sign Trout, right? This isn't a small- or even mid-market situation.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Daniel Murphy signs with Colorado, 2/24.

I kinda like that signing for them.  Especially the length, even if high AAV.

[Danchat]

The market's finally starting to move a little bit:

 

Anibal Sanchez to the Nationals, 2 years $19M, 3rd year option at $12M.

Andrew Miller signing with Cardinals.

 

[Mike Sixel]

Soria off the market.....

[Vanimal46]

 

Lots of relievers coming off the market... Where are the Twins rumors?

[SomeGuy]

 

FWIW, the Angels were 8th in runs scored last year, and 8th in runs allowed. Their pitching staff lacks star power, but it's not that bad.

Seattle got lucky last year (+12 wins over their Pythag record) and are tearing down a bit, and while Oakland had a nice year, it was built on largely the kind of pitchers you deride the Angels for acquiring -- Cahill, Edwin Jackson, etc.

The Angels have absolutely not capitalized on having Trout, but that doesn't mean they have to deal him. In addition to Trout, they have Simmons in his prime, Upton still good, Ohtani. And some serviceable starters and relievers.

The Angels need to figure out what is going on with their injury history.  I'm starting to think it is not just an unfortunate coincidence at this point.  They currently have 3 Major League pitchers recovering from Tommy John and seem to lose multiple pitchers to a major injury every season. 

 

Might be time to cut old Pujols too.

[cmoss84]

I am sure I am in the minority on the Trout/Angels situation, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. But a few final thoughts to throw out there:

 

1: Just because the Angels CAN sign Trout to an extension, doesn't mean they will (East coast guy-he's got Yankees or Phillies written all over him)

 

2: I would bet anyone and give 5-1 odds that the Angels will not make the playoffs in the next 2 years.

(pitching staff IS the downfall-you can throw any stats out there you want...watch their games on a normal basis and you'll know what Angel fans are going through.) 

 

3: Because of #2, I ask this question...would you rather have the best player on the planet for 2 years and not make the playoffs, or start building your (very near) future.

 

The general consensus is that an organization should either go all in or completely tear down and re-build. Anything in the middle is considered treading water and very dangerous. I consider the Angels situation treading water, especially after they sign Cahill and Harvey and not other top FA to pair with Trout for 2 years. Maybe they still will. I would understand then and be all for it. 

Fans will love watching Trout, obviously. He will put fans in the seats all by his lonesome. But when he leaves in two years, the Angels will be in a tough spot. 

[Vanimal46]

I'll take the best player on the planet every single time. There's always time to build for the future in the future. Prospects aren't going away.

[cmoss84]

I REALLY like Britton. Man he would be nice as our closer. C'mon Twins! Give us an early Christmas present! 

 

Britton and Ottovino...happy New Years. 

[beckmt]

According to MLbtraderumors and Yahoo sports.  Profar has been traded to the A's in a 7 player 3 team deal including Texas and Tampa Bay.  International bonus money is also involved. 

[cmoss84]

 

I'll take the best player on the planet every single time. There's always time to build for the future in the future. Prospects aren't going away.

It's definitely a complicated situation. Might be a no-win situation. Fans in a major market are not going to be happy with an organization if they are unable to win with a player of Trout's caliber AND if the organization has a 3 year dead zone after the player leaves in FA (especially if they get little to nothing back for them). 

[Vanimal46]

It's definitely a complicated situation. Might be a no-win situation. Fans in a major market are not going to be happy with an organization if they are unable to win with a player of Trout's caliber AND if the organization has a 3 year dead zone after the player leaves in FA (especially if they get little to nothing back for them).

I think it's a no-win situation honestly. Wouldn't want to be in the GM's shoes.

 

Let's take a step back just for a second. Trout is and has been the best player in baseball by a wide margin. There's no one they can acquire who can contribute as much value on an individual basis. It's possible that the aggregate of players they acquire generates 10 WAR. But we see time and time again top prospects fail to live up to the hype.

 

If the Angels GM trades a generational talent AND the players coming back fail? Boy, that sounds like a career ending move to me.

[wavedog]

Looks like this thread will be where the most action is this offseason.  Not that this is unusual but this year we had some $ to spend.    As the relievers start going off the market we have to pin our hopes for 2019 on internal improvements.   

[Otto von Ballpark]

1: Just because the Angels CAN sign Trout to an extension, doesn't mean they will (East coast guy-he's got Yankees or Phillies written all over him)

 

Keep in mind, Trout already signed away 3 free agent years with the Angels (by service time, he could have been a free agent after the 2017 season).

 

That's no guarantee he will re-up there, of course, but it also suggests he is not necessarily hell-bent on testing the open market, and/or seeking a particular destination above all else.

[Vanimal46]

According to MLbtraderumors and Yahoo sports. Profar has been traded to the A's in a 7 player 3 team deal including Texas and Tampa Bay. International bonus money is also involved.

https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1076148489447456770?s=19

[Otto von Ballpark]

2: I would bet anyone and give 5-1 odds that the Angels will not make the playoffs in the next 2 years.

(pitching staff IS the downfall-you can throw any stats out there you want...watch their games on a normal basis and you'll know what Angel fans are going through.)

 

Even with the Astros in the same division, Fangraphs has given the Angels a 26-33% chance at the postseason each of the last 3 opening days.

 

Also, the Astros could be losing Morton and Keuchel this winter, and Verlander and Cole are FA next winter. They may not be dominant forever.

 

Additionally, while you keep saying the Angels pitching specifically has been holding them back for unspecified non-statistical reasons, it seems just as likely that their offensive black holes could shoulder some of that blame. They have Trout and Simmons, but they have also trotted out some awful position player performers the last few years - Valbueba, Calhoun, Espinosa, Revere, Pujols, etc. Their pitching lacks star power for sure, but it can be just as limiting to have a few stars surrounded by black holes like their offense has had.

 

I don't think it is easy for the Angels the next couple years, but I also don't think it is easy to rebuild around a Trout trade either.

[cmoss84]

 

Even with the Astros in the same division, Fangraphs has given the Angels a 26-33% chance at the postseason each of the last 3 opening days.

Also, the Astros could be losing Morton and Keuchel this winter, and Verlander and Cole are FA next winter. They may not be dominant forever.

Additionally, while you keep saying the Angels pitching specifically has been holding them back for unspecified non-statistical reasons, it seems just as likely that their offensive black holes could shoulder some of that blame. They have Trout and Simmons, but they have also trotted out some awful position player performers the last few years - Valbueba, Calhoun, Espinosa, Revere, Pujols, etc. Their pitching lacks star power for sure, but it can be just as limiting to have a few stars surrounded by black holes like their offense has had.

I don't think it is easy for the Angels the next couple years, but I also don't think it is easy to rebuild around a Trout trade either.

Fair points-and you're right, their offense does deserve some of the blame as well...

 

I guess my overall point is that they should either "really go for it" and sign 2 or 3 nice FA and keep Trout the whole time, or trade him while his value is at its apex.  

 

Harvey and Cahill are not those type of signings. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Fair points-and you're right, their offense does deserve some of the blame as well...

 

I guess my overall point is that they should either "really go for it" and sign 2 or 3 nice FA and keep Trout the whole time, or trade him while his value is at its apex.

 

Harvey and Cahill are not those type of signings.

FWIW, the Angels did make an offer to Corbin before he signed with the Nats. It is quite possible that Harvey and Cahill were not Plan A.