Go get Verlander

[Mr. Brooks]

I have been on the side arguing that the Twins were not a place free agent pitchers would want to land.

 

Lots of pluses now. You get a young line up that will only get better. You get an outfield defense that might be the best in baseball. You get a good defensive catcher in Castro. You see the difference it has made for Colon. Why not drop your no trade if you are Verlander? Why not accept a competitive offer from the Twins if you are a free agent?

 

It is the right time to be aggressive. Pitchers would be crazy not to listen.

The NT clause is more about having leverage to get more guaranteed money or something else, than it is about choosing the quality of the team you go to, IMO.

[drivlikejehu]

 

Verlander wasn't really "legitimately trade-able" as a pure salary dump.  The Tigers could (and likely would) eat some cash to get back talent/prospects, but they were never going to let him go for salary relief alone.  No one is apparently willing to meet that price of talent/prospects, but I don't think that means no one was willing to take Verlander and his contract "for free" -- it simply wasn't an option.  (Heck, with Verlander's no-trade clause, he probably was never going to consent to a pure salary relief deal either.)

 

I think the default position for teams on August waiver claims is, if no one has much of a shot of making a deal, you pass. And for all the bluster around Verlander, Stanton, etc., no one has been particularly close to a deal on them.  And I don't blame the Twins for not pursuing him either, given the apparent costs (beyond his contract).

 

Well another key point is that clubs were free to talk to the Tigers before Verlander even hit waivers. So if the issue is that the Tigers simply don't want to deal him, I don't understand the purpose of this thread.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

Well another key point is that clubs were free to talk to the Tigers before Verlander even hit waivers. So if the issue is that the Tigers simply don't want to deal him, I don't understand the purpose of this thread.

It would help if you provided evidence or examples of other cases.

 

Who has been the highest profile player to be simply let go to the team placing the claim? 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

It would help if you provided evidence or examples of other cases.

 

Who has been the highest profile player to be simply let go to the team placing the claim? 

Alex Rios, I think.

[Monkeypaws]

I doubt Verlander would agree to come to a divisional rival, especially for a potential one and done. Potential division winners only need apply. Off-season maybe, at the cost of low-end prospects only, for the myriad reasons mentioned already.

If the Twins win a wild-card spot, Santana deserves it. Why this thread makes no sense at all.

[amjgt]

In light of the Upton deal, the "Detroit doesn't dump salary" takes seem.... poorly timed

[amjgt]

I moved the Justin Upton stuff to another thread FYI, same team but it seemed a bit out of place here.

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/27360-august-trade-deadline-news-and-notes/

Seems kind of unnecessary. Now both threads lack the context of the other.

[Otto von Ballpark]

In light of the Upton deal, the "Detroit doesn't dump salary" takes seem.... poorly timed

Upton has an opt out after this season, so it is essentially an expiring contract. They "dumped" ~$3 mil for a meaningless month. That has no bearing on Verlander's situation.

[Mr. Brooks]

I doubt Verlander would agree to come to a divisional rival, especially for a potential one and done. Potential division winners only need apply. Off-season maybe, at the cost of low-end prospects only, for the myriad reasons mentioned already.

If the Twins win a wild-card spot, Santana deserves it. Why this thread makes no sense at all.

What is your reasoning on why Verlander wouldn't want to go to a division rival?

[amjgt]

 

Upton has an opt out after this season, so it is essentially an expiring contract. They "dumped" ~$3 mil for a meaningless month. That has no bearing on Verlander's situation.

 

It will be interesting to see if he actually opts out.

 

The market this past winter for bats was very weak. He's got 4/88M left on his contract. Do we really see him getting more than that?

 

[TFelton]

I thought this was intriguing a few weeks ago...today, not interested...TFelton

[PseudoSABR]

With Verlander nixing the deal the Astros, hard to imagine he would have come to the Twins.  But this is exactly the kind of move the Twins should be looking to make.   I wish the Diamondbacks weren't competitive, because I'm sure Grienke could be had with them eating quite a bit of salary.

 

Rumored deal: 

 

Edit: deal went through....for the above haul

 

So much for Verlander having no trade value....

[drivlikejehu]

The Tigers are picking up some of Verlander's salary, and there is a PTBNL or more cash on the Detroit side as well. 

 

The Astros paid more than the straight-up value of Verlander's contract, but not a crazy amount more.

[USAFChief]

Hard for me to understand why the Twins couldn't have been in on this.

 

None of the three prospects have advanced above low A, and Detroit is picking up some of Verlanders salary.

[AlwaysinModeration]

Hard for me to understand why the Twins couldn't have been in on this.

 

None of the three prospects have advanced above low A, and Detroit is picking up some of Verlanders salary.

I have the opposite reaction. That seems like a good haul the Tigers are getting for Verlander. The equivalent in the Twins' system seems like...I don't know...Romero, Wander Javier, and Ben Rortvedt, or something like that. Would you do that trade, Chief?

[old nurse]

 

Hard for me to understand why the Twins couldn't have been in on this.

None of the three prospects have advanced above low A, and Detroit is picking up some of Verlanders salary.

Next time you see him, ask Verlander if he rejected a trade to the Twins.. The report was that Verlander wanted to go to the Cubs.  He had the choice. That seems to be the hard concept for people to understand or accept.  Verlander's quote to Michigan media "I know what it feels like to play for a team that can win a World Series," he said. "It's winning it that has evaded me." really does not sound like the Twins would be on his radar of teams.

3 of the top 11 prospects in a top 5 ranked system.  Gorden, Jorge,  and Diaz might be the comparable.

If you overcome the No Trade Clause or the 10/5 rule there would be serious weakening of the farm system.. Low level in the minors as 2o year olds is not an indictment of their talent. Houston gave up a lot.

[drjim]

That's a pretty solid haul for Detroit. Good trade both ways.

[alarp33]

 

Hard for me to understand why the Twins couldn't have been in on this.

None of the three prospects have advanced above low A, and Detroit is picking up some of Verlanders salary.

 

Because Justin Verlander has a no trade clause, I think its pretty simple

[Guest]

Two reactions.

 

1. There's "regular guy" old guy, then there's "spend like Mike Illitch"'old guy.

 

2. This is a good example of a trade the Twins should do NEXT summer, after adding a few complementary pieces this winter and getting another year of maturity from the core.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Two reactions.

1. There's "regular guy" old guy, then there's "spend like Mike Illitch"'old guy.

2. This is a good example of a trade the Twins should do NEXT summer, after adding a few complementary pieces this winter and getting another year of maturity from the core.

 

assuming everyone is healthy, and producing, and they are winning. Like, you know, when we all thought M&M would stay healthy and good?

[Mike Sixel]

Well, the Twins did nothing. Shocker. Real. Shocker.

[drivlikejehu]

Again, the Twins being criticized for not making impossible moves.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Again, the Twins being criticized for not making impossible moves.

 

There was no move that could be made? None could be made? There was zero player they could have traded for? Like, Leake for example?

 

I didn't actually criticize them for not trading for Verlander, not even one word there was only about that. Was it?

 

 

edit: And you know with certainty they could not trade for Verlander, you know that how?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

edit: And you know with certainty they could not trade for Verlander, you know that how?

If Verlander wouldn't initially accept a trade to the best team in the AL in a market much larger than Minnesota or Detroit, it's doubtful he'd ever consider a trade to the Twins.

 

Not impossible but highly unlikely.

 

In any case, an interesting trade. Two 50-100 prospects, a random guy, and Detroit takes on salary (which should have surprised none of us).

[drjim]

There was no move that could be made? None could be made? There was zero player they could have traded for? Like, Leake for example?

 

I didn't actually criticize them for not trading for Verlander, not even one word there was only about that. Was it?

 

 

edit: And you know with certainty they could not trade for Verlander, you know that how?

Leake?

[Mike Sixel]

 

If Verlander wouldn't initially accept a trade to the best team in the AL in a market much larger than Minnesota or Detroit, it's doubtful he'd ever consider a trade to the Twins.

 

Not impossible but highly unlikely.

 

In any case, an interesting trade. Two 50-100 prospects, a random guy, and Detroit takes on salary (which should have surprised none of us).

 

sure, that's why that's an edit, ignoring the whole other part of the post.

 

Oh, and he did accept the trade after all.

 

But, rather than concentrate on the point of the post, I'm sure we'll dicker over 1 player and 1 trade.

[gocgo]

...said the Astros.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

sure, that's why that's an edit, ignoring the whole other part of the post.

 

Oh, and he did accept the trade after all.

 

But, rather than concentrate on the point of the post, I'm sure we'll dicker over 1 player and 1 trade.

I wasn't arguing with you, just pointing out the Astros could barely pull off the trade.

 

I'm a little baffled the Twins didn't do anything. I don't like it.

 

I didn't expect or want much but a bullpen arm sure wouldn't have hurt.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Leake?

 

earlier this week the mariners acquired a SP from the Cardinals, it was an example of a player moved that wasn't in the division.

 

There were several trades yesterday, for OFers, DH/OF types, C, SP..... the Twins did not acquire a player. That was the point of the post, quite literally. The Twins did nothing to get better. 

[drjim]

sure, that's why that's an edit, ignoring the whole other part of the post.

 

Oh, and he did accept the trade after all.

 

But, rather than concentrate on the point of the post, I'm sure we'll dicker over 1 player and 1 trade.

Leake would have been a terrible addition too. Quite happy the Twins didn't do that.