Kyle Gibson: Haven't We Seen Enough?

[Twodogs]

Throwing this guy out there every five days is a slap in the face to all Twins fans.

He didn't do terrible today?

[USAFChief]

 

Completely acceptable start today. He's pitching like a #5 the last several weeks.

Completely acceptable?  Four runs in six innings.  Dancing on the edge of worse damage in several innings.  Can't put hitters--even bad hitters--away.

 

As for "pitching like a #5," that means he's in the bottom 20 percent of MLB starters.  Nobody plans on having "a #5" in their rotation.  They settle for that because they don't have anything better.  You don't win pennants with #5s in your rotation.

 

And I question whether he's even that.  Not counting today, his OPS against for the last 28 days is .911.  Slightly worse than his OPS against over the past year.

 

He's been an awful MLB starter for a while now, and it's not been getting better.

[drjim]

Completely acceptable? Four runs in six innings. Dancing on the edge of worse damage in several innings. Can't put hitters--even bad hitters--away.

 

As for "pitching like a #5," that means he's in the bottom 20 percent of MLB starters. Nobody plans on having "a #5" in their rotation. They settle for that because they don't have anything better. You don't win pennants with #5s in your rotation.

 

And I question whether he's even that. Not counting today, his OPS against for the last 28 days is .911. Slightly worse than his OPS against over the past year.

 

He's been an awful MLB starter for a while now, and it's not been getting better.

Oh he's not good and it would be nice to replace him. But considering the current alternatives...

[USAFChief]

 

Oh he's not good and it would be nice to replace him. But considering the current alternatives...

well, considering the current alternatives  you have a point.  

 

But regarding the OP...I've seen enough.

[drjim]

well, considering the current alternatives you have a point.

 

But regarding the OP...I've seen enough.

I've seen enough too in the sense that this is who he is and it should be replaceable in the offseason. So up to the front office to make it happen.

 

But getting into the 7th inning against the best offense in baseball is an acceptable start. He can still contribute enough for the Twins to remain fringe contenders.

[Aaron Cross]

He didn't do terrible today?

Predictable response. Your silence would have been deafening had he gotten shelled. What's his era again?

[Twodogs]

Predictable response. Your silence would have been deafening had he gotten shelled. What's his era again?

 

My predictable response is that, for the time being, looks like your going to get slapped in the face every 5 days.

[Vanimal46]

I know we've seen horrendous pitching over the last 4+ years, but in no way should 4 ER in 6 innings generate positivity for a pitcher. The bar is set so low and the leash so long for Gibson over the years. I really don't get it. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

I know we've seen horrendous pitching over the last 4+ years, but in no way should 4 ER in 6 innings generate positivity for a pitcher. The bar is set so low and the leash so long for Gibson over the years. I really don't get it. 

 

In fairness, the OF and IF defense was terrible yesterday. I'm not sure he really gave up 4 ER.....He was a 4/5 yesterday, imo.

 

Is that great? No. Is that an 'excuse". No. but, it is a reasonable explanation for what happened. 

[laloesch]

 

I know we've seen horrendous pitching over the last 4+ years, but in no way should 4 ER in 6 innings generate positivity for a pitcher. The bar is set so low and the leash so long for Gibson over the years. I really don't get it. 

 

Agreed.

[Twodogs]

I know we've seen horrendous pitching over the last 4+ years, but in no way should 4 ER in 6 innings generate positivity for a pitcher. The bar is set so low and the leash so long for Gibson over the years. I really don't get it.

I feel really weird trying to defend Gibson, because I'm really not, I can't stand the guy. However, his 4th run was given up in the 7th inning off an 11 pitch walk where the hitter fouled off about 5-6 pitches to stay in the AB, then Hildendinger came in and gave up a stolen base and eventually let that run come across the plate. Again had Gibson stayed in he might have given up another 5 runs, but my point being is that Gibson gave up that run in the 7th inning, now had that happened to Mejia, or Jorge, or Colon, or Duffy, or May, or Gonsalves or any other pitcher whose name wasn't Gibson, or Nolasco, or some other hated Twin then everyone would be sitting around talking about how great they did and that they held them in the game, and if it wasn't for that horrible job by the relief pitcher they might have been in line for the win and would be planning next year's rotation around that guy because he held a team to 3 runs in 6 innings and gave up a 4th run in the 7th inning. I'm just saying that there is a lot of hypocracy when talking about the players we don't like and their performance as compared to when we talk about the players we like and their performance.

 

Now to clear things up, I don't like Gibson, but I recognize that he did ok yesterday, good enough that we'd all be praising some other guy for the same performance. Difference is, is that people want Gibson to explode and these starts keep him around awhile longer, I get it, but I just get tired of the bashing when in this one case he doesn't really deserve it.

[prouster]

Predictable response. Your silence would have been deafening had he gotten shelled. What's his era again?

Please elevate your level of discourse.

[Tom Froemming]

If he gets even league average defense, Gibson only gives up two runs yesterday. To the best team in baseball. Pretty hard to find issue with that performance.

[Tomj14]

 

I know we've seen horrendous pitching over the last 4+ years, but in no way should 4 ER in 6 innings generate positivity for a pitcher. The bar is set so low and the leash so long for Gibson over the years. I really don't get it. 

If Molitor would have taken him out after the 6th which would have been the correct decision since he was at 96 pitches and there was little to no chance he was going to finish the 7th. He isn't very good, but he is a decent enough 5th starter for the time being.

[Tom Froemming]

If Mejia has that exact same start yesterday it would be all rainbows and butterflies, people would be just gushing love for Adalberto. His shirsey would be sold out

 

I get it, I'm as done seeing Gibson as anybody, but he pitched much better than his stat line suggests.

[Vanimal46]

 

In fairness, the OF and IF defense was terrible yesterday. I'm not sure he really gave up 4 ER.....He was a 4/5 yesterday, imo.

 

Is that great? No. Is that an 'excuse". No. but, it is a reasonable explanation for what happened. 

 

I suppose that's fair to criticize the lineups yesterday with Vargas at 1B, Rosario in CF and Grossman in LF. Gibson's supposed to be a ground ball "specialist" so in theory, they could have been able to get by with a below average OF that day. 

[Vanimal46]

 

If Mejia has that exact same start yesterday it would be all rainbows and butterflies, people would be just gushing love for Adalberto. His shirsey would be sold out

 

I get it, I'm as done seeing Gibson as anybody, but he pitched much better than his stat line suggests.

 

Probably so. Mejia is 13 starts into his career and still has promise. Gibson is 115 starts into his career and the promise has worn off especially so this year. 

[Kwak]

 

If Mejia has that exact same start yesterday it would be all rainbows and butterflies, people would be just gushing love for Adalberto. His shirsey would be sold out

 

I get it, I'm as done seeing Gibson as anybody, but he pitched much better than his stat line suggests.

Add Molitor's "managin" to the mix.  Paraphrasing today's Tribune "Mauer was rested Sunday because [he] din't want him playing a day game following a night game."  WHAT!?  Mauer has been on the DL and didn't play Saturday night!  I noticed the over-sized bolded comment VARGAS after his HR--why weren't there similar bolded VARGAS after his throwing gaffes?

 

To reiterate some of my previous comments--substandard defensive play, partially the responsibility of Molitor's over-managing, led to the Astro's win--and Gibson's "poor pitching".  Gibson didn't pitch poorly Sunday--he was "stabbed-in-the-back!"

[Mike Sixel]

 

I suppose that's fair to criticize the lineups yesterday with Vargas at 1B, Rosario in CF and Grossman in LF. Gibson's supposed to be a ground ball "specialist" so in theory, they could have been able to get by with a below average OF that day. 

 

When has he ever been a GB specialist? that's more myth than reality.

 

I posted "good luck with that defense" before the game even started for a reason...

[drjim]

Add Molitor's "managin" to the mix. Paraphrasing today's Tribune "Mauer was rested Sunday because [he] din't want him playing a day game following a night game." WHAT!? Mauer has been on the DL and didn't play Saturday night! I noticed the over-sized bolded comment VARGAS after his HR--why weren't there similar bolded VARGAS after his throwing gaffes?

 

To reiterate some of my previous comments--substandard defensive play, partially the responsibility of Molitor's over-managing, led to the Astro's win--and Gibson's "poor pitching". Gibson didn't pitch poorly Sunday--he was "stabbed-in-the-back!"

Mauer did play Saturday. And knowing the physical limitations of guys is the #1 priority of a manager. They said pretty clearly Mauer was coming back slightly early and they would not go night to day off the bat. That's actually a plan. So not sure of this criticism.

[drjim]

Probably so. Mejia is 13 starts into his career and still has promise. Gibson is 115 starts into his career and the promise has worn off especially so this year.

While true, that means nothing for performance going forward for the rest of this season. Does impact the offseason.