CC: Levine, Falvey, Pohlad and Molitor

[DJSim22]

 

Any of the young guys would have to equal Breslow-Belisle-Pressley-Haley.

Remember, any NEW GUYS can't be as bad as the guys currently stinkin' up the mound!

 

I remember hearing this when Turley, Rosario, Rucinski, Wilk, Tepesch were all up with the team. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

DFA Pino? What

sorry, release Pino, he's not on the 40.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Pino isn't taking anybody's spot. He's a company man. He'll pitch in whatever role is needed. Organizations need guys like him.

they have enough filler in AAA. Nothing against the guy, but there are roster limitations in AAA too

[yarnivek1972]

After the All-Star brake figure out the three starters you are keeping and stop pussyfooting with any others.

 

You have Kintzler, but remember he burnt out towards the end of the season and won't he be a free agent?

 

Think 2018. If they aren't going to be here fer sure in 2019, don't play them anymore in 2017.

 

Any of the young guys would have to equal Breslow-Belisle-Pressley-Haley.

 

Hughes is on a short lease.

 

Look at the minors and start promoting and think pitch counts. Make sure you can see/use Curtiss in September.

 

Forget salary commitments. Forget long-term contracts. Start making your own template, new regime.

 

Remember, any NEW GUYS can't be as bad as the guys currently stinkin' up the mound!

This isn't a video game or a fantasy baseball league. In the real world, contract status matters. If you are suggesting that the Twins simply eat the $30 mil or so that is still owed to Phil Hughes, dream on. It isn't going to happen. That might be something the owner of the Yankees would okay. The owner of the Twins? Not a chance.

[drjim]

This isn't a video game or a fantasy baseball league. In the real world, contract status matters. If you are suggesting that the Twins simply eat the $30 mil or so that is still owed to Phil Hughes, dream on. It isn't going to happen. That might be something the owner of the Yankees would okay. The owner of the Twins? Not a chance.

Nor should they. He can be a long man, or placed on the dl. They're going to give him a look next spring.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Rucinski AAA All Star

1.65 ERA, .77 WHIP, .193 BA, 29 K vs 3 BB in 32.2 innings. Currently 17.1 scoreless streak.

id give Ruc a shot in the big league rotation. Long relief doesn't seem to be his thing

[Thrylos]

 

sorry, release Pino, he's not on the 40.

 

He is on the "DL" in Rochester... He is not the problem with the Twins

[Platoon]

I would not want to try and straighten out this pitching mess. There aren't enough assets to trade, nor enough cash that will be ok'ed to make this staff functional in the near term. But I do know that if I was Falvine, and I considered this an evaluation year, I would stick with my original plan. There is no foreseeable route to the playoffs with either this pitching staff, or anything they could scrape together given the above limitations. Hopefully they continue to clarify the roster, and keep adding pieces the best they can. Any attempt at a quick fix will be regretted for years.

[Doug ogilvie]

Rucinski was a starter until this year, said he was learning how to be a bull pen guy.

[spinowner]

 

I would not want to try and straighten out this pitching mess. There aren't enough assets to trade, nor enough cash that will be ok'ed to make this staff functional in the near term. But I do know that if I was Falvine, and I considered this an evaluation year, I would stick with my original plan. There is no foreseeable route to the playoffs with either this pitching staff, or anything they could scrape together given the above limitations. Hopefully they continue to clarify the roster, and keep adding pieces the best they can. Any attempt at a quick fix will be regretted for years.

I agree. I highly doubt that any pitching staff we could assemble with pitchers currently in the organization will get us very far this season. If we go outside the organization with the objective of strongly competing this season we'd probably have to add four pitchers, which would most likely cost us all our top prospects plus a couple young major leaguers. We would be back in 2011 again in no time. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

He is on the "DL" in Rochester... He is not the problem with the Twins

i didn't realize he's on the DL. He's not the issue with the Twins, however the pipeline to the bigs needs to have a higher number of 5th/6th starter (Rosario/Jorge) types and higher upside types, and fewer org filler types.

 

He's not the issue, but the DFA scrap heap needs to be improved upon

[Roaddog]

Reed coming up was a little extreme, but it was only to make a point. The guys being shuffled currently aren't cutting it. Try something different.

[Brandon Warne]

 

I think that they are trying things.   And to their credit, they are mostly willing to get rid of the things they have tried and haven't worked.  The problem however is that the team is doing better than anybody thought, and the quality or readiness of things they are trying is not quite that of a contender.

 

This is the biggest issue with this FO:  They wanted 2017 to be an evaluating season, happened to be a contending season and they are doing nothing about it.  Half rear-end does not cut it any more.  You either evaluate and rebuild, which means bye bye Belise, Breslow, Santiago and hello a bunch of young arms, or you try to compete, which means bye bye Belisle, Breslow, Santiago & Co and welcome better pitchers from outside the organization.

 

Other than that they are trying to polish turds.  And if that's what you are trying, it is not good enough.

 

They are not contending. This is not a team good enough to make the playoffs and/or do any damage. Stay the course on the path to being good every year. Do not deviate from that path. 

[Brandon Warne]

 

Rucinski was a starter until this year, said he was learning how to be a bull pen guy.

 

He could actually be a decent bullpen arm. He throws fairly hard and the split gets swinging strikes.

[Brandon Warne]

 

sorry, release Pino, he's not on the 40.

 

There's no one to release him for. If they want guys to develop in Double-A -- a better league for development than Triple-A -- they should do just that. 

[The Wise One]

 

I think that they are trying things.   And to their credit, they are mostly willing to get rid of the things they have tried and haven't worked.  The problem however is that the team is doing better than anybody thought, and the quality or readiness of things they are trying is not quite that of a contender.

 

This is the biggest issue with this FO:  They wanted 2017 to be an evaluating season, happened to be a contending season and they are doing nothing about it.  Half rear-end does not cut it any more.  You either evaluate and rebuild, which means bye bye Belise, Breslow, Santiago and hello a bunch of young arms, or you try to compete, which means bye bye Belisle, Breslow, Santiago & Co and welcome better pitchers from outside the organization.

 

Other than that they are trying to polish turds.  And if that's what you are trying, it is not good enough.

The number 2 and 3 starters they need to go along with 2 quality bullpen arms would cost more than they have in the minor league assets to fill the spots for medium term fixes.  

[Brandon Warne]

 

The number 2 and 3 starters they need to go along with 2 quality bullpen arms would cost more than they have in the minor league assets to fill the spots for medium term fixes.  

 

Stay the course, and in the meantime see what you've got. There's a non-zero chance most of the bullpen fixes they need are in-house, and beyond that, paying money for relievers doesn't really move the needle that much. Ask the Tigers. We were all spoiled by the Crain-Rincon-Nathan era. 

[The Wise One]

 

Stay the course, and in the meantime see what you've got. There's a non-zero chance most of the bullpen fixes they need are in-house, and beyond that, paying money for relievers doesn't really move the needle that much. Ask the Tigers. We were all spoiled by the Crain-Rincon-Nathan era. 

Silly me to think it would be obvious that what I posted was disagreeing with the thought you can trade for the help to fill in what is needed in the pitching staff.

[The Wise One]

Pick a stat to say the Twin's bullpen is crappy.  ERA, FIP, x FIP, K%/BB%, and on will tell you that the Twins bullpen based on statistics as a whole suck.  In terms of actually costing them a game any of those statistics are meaningless,  A loss is a counting statistic that means your team lost while the bullpen was pitching. Starting from even or behind, the team lost because the relief pitcher gave up more runs than the hitters could score. Duffy and Pressly have lost 2 games, Rogers, Kinzler, Santiago, Breslow, Belisle and Tonkin one each.   10 games. That must really be bad until you see the best team is a 7. They may be a crappy bullpen, but in comparison the bullpen is not costing the team an excessive amount of games.  Before anybody goes on the offensive and says the team's offense bails them out, the Twins relief stat have the lowest win total . WPA by team says the Twins bullpen is overall neither good nor bad.  Now the caveat is that these numbers could all change by the end of the year.  Unless you get the way back end of the bullpen guy I really do not think the outcome of the games are going to be much different in terms of wins and losses. 

[akmanak]

Baseball is determined in July and August and you can already tell that the Twins yet again simply does not have the stamina to play well in these months and for that we sell. Don't try and have this illusion that we are still in it.

 

Many are clamoring to call up half of the aaa team but we simply can't do that. What we need to do is keep cycling one or two player in and out of aaa and hope someone one will pan out.

 

I grow so tired of the bullpen collapse year after year because of our starting pitchers not being able to go 6 innings and that our coach has no clue on how to manage either a bullpen or a rotation.

 

Trade some assets away and actually rebuild this team like the Royals and Astros have done.

[HitInAPinch]

 

I would not want to try and straighten out this pitching mess. There aren't enough assets to trade, nor enough cash that will be ok'ed to make this staff functional in the near term. But I do know that if I was Falvine, and I considered this an evaluation year, I would stick with my original plan. There is no foreseeable route to the playoffs with either this pitching staff, or anything they could scrape together given the above limitations. Hopefully they continue to clarify the roster, and keep adding pieces the best they can. Any attempt at a quick fix will be regretted for years.

I wouldn't assume that Jim Pohlad wouldn't OK spending money to improve the pitching staff.  He is the guy that approved spending money on a search firm for the 1st time in Twins history.  

 

Baby steps!

[HitInAPinch]

Promote John Curtiss?  Is this the guy that has had both Tommy John surgery and surgery for thoracic outlet syndrome?  I guess maybe the worst is over?

[HitInAPinch]

Overall, I think it'll be interesting to see how this 2nd half plays out.  Betting on more auditions....

[Platoon]

I wouldn't assume that Jim Pohlad wouldn't OK spending money to improve the pitching staff.  He is the guy that approved spending money on a search firm for the 1st time in Twins history.  

 

Baby steps!

Good point. The Pohlads adversity to opening up the vault is sometimes overstated. Cases in point. Several weeks ago Jim handed out free replacement tickets to that 6 hour rain delay game, that was over in 6 minutes. And just last winter he kept a friend of his gainfully employed, in tough times, when all logic would have done otherwise.

[DaveW]

Just fix it. This pen and 40% of the rotation are an embarrassment to baseball.

[Mike Sixel]

I still don't understand how anyone would need a year of evaluation to know that the worst pitching staff in baseball needed changes. Can anyone explain that to me?

 

As for the bullpen, I see no reason not to call up young guys, and jettison at least one of Breslow/Belisle.

 

As for Hughes, he's done most likely. If they count on him next year, they get what they deserve. They 100% should not have counted on him this year, as many of us said before the year started. 

[drjim]

 

I still don't understand how anyone would need a year of evaluation to know that the worst pitching staff in baseball needed changes. Can anyone explain that to me?

 

As for the bullpen, I see no reason not to call up young guys, and jettison at least one of Breslow/Belisle.

 

As for Hughes, he's done most likely. If they count on him next year, they get what they deserve. They 100% should not have counted on him this year, as many of us said before the year started. 

 

They've used 28 guys so far. Sounds like some aggressive changes.

 

Breslow is not on the 25 man anymore.

 

Hughes will be given a shot in spring training, but he won't be plan a.

[Mike Sixel]

My question wasn't "are they evaluating AAA castoffs from other organizations", my question was why people thought they needed to evaluate the existing pitchers before making changes, since that is the contention many (not necessarily you) have been making.

[Craig Arko]

 

My question wasn't "are they evaluating AAA castoffs from other organizations", my question was why people thought they needed to evaluate the existing pitchers before making changes, since that is the contention many (not necessarily you) have been making.

I suppose because if one is a new boss in an organization, it's worth a bit of time getting to know one's employees capabilities before starting to can them.

[drjim]

 

My question wasn't "are they evaluating AAA castoffs from other organizations", my question was why people thought they needed to evaluate the existing pitchers before making changes, since that is the contention many (not necessarily you) have been making.

 

My interpretation was always that they wanted to give marginal guys another shot after they establish different systems - coaching, shifts, better defensive catchers, better defense overall, to see if it is the pitcher or if they were put in bad positions by the previous front office.

 

They also wanted to reboot some younger guys, give other younger guys more reps, they were locked into some contracts (Hughes), they wanted to commit to May as a starter.