If then.....a trade for pitching question.

[amjgt]

I would trade anyone in the Minors not named Berrios (who better not be in the minors much longer) and Romero for a non-rental #2/3 starter. 

 

I'm open to a rental, but more of a "#4 pitcher for a flyer" type trade. Realistically, I'd be open to that trade TODAY. 

 

What would it take to get Liriano for the rest of the season?

 

 

[DaveW]

We have a pretty good trade chip in the minors that nobody is talking about:

JR Murphy, just a year ago he was able to net a guy who has a .350 BA, 1.100 OPS, plays great D and is on pace for 30 HR and 6 WAR!

Equivalent of that would be a solid #2 starter IMO.

I'd shop him around and try to land a Strasburg type player (if the Nats fall out of it)

[DaveW]

 

 

 

What would it take to get Liriano for the rest of the season?

A C+ prospect or two, I'd be all over it TBH.

[USAFChief]

I would trade anyone in the Minors not named Berrios (who better not be in the minors much longer) and Romero for a non-rental #2/3 starter. 

 

I'm open to a rental, but more of a "#4 pitcher for a flyer" type trade. Realistically, I'd be open to that trade TODAY. 

 

What would it take to get Liriano for the rest of the season?

Exactly.

 

Depending on cost, of course, even a rental gets my attention if they could legitimately slot behind Santana as the Twins second best starter.

[drivlikejehu]

 

But they were a legitimate contender in 2015. They went into the last weekend of the season in contention.

And they also could zealously guard their entire minor league system and still not have anything close to a championship caliber MLB team, now OR in the future.

That's the point...baseball is pretty hard to predict. So when you don't have to try to predict...you're IN contention, ****ing put on your big boy pants and ****ing go for it.

 

They were not going to win the World Series.

 

The flip side to prospects being overrated is that the impact of trade pickups is often overrated. A player has to be really, really good to meaningfully alter the odds of making the playoffs and even better to meaningfully improve the chances of winning the World Series.

 

Across the league, teams have become more cautious in trading away legit assets for tiny incremental improvements. No current GM would do a Ramos for Capps sort of deal. 

[Willihammer]

I'll just say that if the Twins do trade prospects to make a push, don't half-ass it. See your MN Vikings, Wild, past Twins teams, etc. Go for the creme de la creme as the Indians, Cubs, Royals, etc did. Don't send prospects if the return is another Jon Rauch or Matt Capps.

[Brandon]

Ok so far im hearing that no one would go for it if we have a chance but you would do the Terry Ryan thing and go after a number 4 starter. Ok who is fair to trade for a 4 starter. Who would you trade for Estrada or Kennedy? And then lets do a poll to work towards a consensus to weed out crap offers.

[jorgenswest]

I don't think they should be interested in a rental for this year. Ideally they would acquire someone under control through 2019. That is not likely but they absolutely need 2018.

 

The team is just too many pitchers away from really competing in the playoffs. Do they have a single arm in the bullpen that would be pitching innings 7,8 or 9 on a playoff team? Would anyone other than Santana be starting?

 

I am old also, but I believe they have a shot to get it right with this wave of players. I want them to get it right.

[crapforks]

 

I'll just say that if the Twins do trade prospects to make a push, don't half-ass it. See your MN Vikings, Wild, past Twins teams, etc. Go for the creme de la creme as the Indians, Cubs, Royals, etc did. Don't send prospects if the return is another Jon Rauch or Matt Capps.

Add Rick Reed, Orlando Cabrera, ... any others?

[mickeymental]

 

 

 

kinda like 1987?

 

edit: oops -- this was in response to: They were not going to win the World Series.

 

****does anyone else have a problem responding via "quote" on ipad?****

[Riverbrian]

Nobody wants Falvey/Lavine to be reckless or stupid... even if we happen to be pro acquisition in support of a shocking performance in the standings.

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

I think we're at a disconnect if the suggestion is "filling a hole" and "going for it" involve going for a #4 starter.

 

In either case, it's May 6th.  Can we just enjoy being not terrible for a little while before we declare ourselves contenders?

[USAFChief]

/quote]

 

No.

[mickeymental]

/quote]

 

No.

 

cold comfort.

[Jerr]

 

A). I truly believe most prospects are overvalued.

2). Waiting around for the stars to magically align and your minor league system to provide everything you need is how you spend decades wandering the wilderness wondering why the stars magically align for other teams but never yours.

D). I'm old and impatient

 

A

2

D

 

Brilliant!!!!!!

 

[drjim]

A). I truly believe most prospects are overvalued.

 

2). Waiting around for the stars to magically align and your minor league system to provide everything you need is how you spend decades wandering the wilderness wondering why the stars magically align for other teams but never yours.

 

D). I'm old and impatient.

A is true and also not true, depends on the prospect. Elite guys close to the majors have a lot of value, beyond that prospects don't net as much as we think.

 

The Twins really have very little of value in the system, Berrios for sure, and Gordon, but beyond that the prospects aren't going to get much.

[USAFChief]

The Twins really have very little of value in the system, Berrios for sure, and Gordon, but beyond that the prospects aren't going to get much.

Sad but true.

[drjim]

To put it another way, Gordon and Berrios would net something good and controlled.

 

Beyond that, the next group is Mejia/Gonsalves/Romero. They'll get something similar to what Mejia got last year, an ok player (Nunez) with 2 years control or a slightly better rental.

 

And stacking mediocre prospects isn't going to move the needle much.

[drjim]

Sad but true.

Yup. Though the cream of the system is in the majors.

 

I also wouldn't be stunned if tge front office is willing to trade a lot of the farm system, they're not their guys.

 

But Jay and Gonsalves are getting nothing right now, Romero not much more.

[USAFChief]

Yup. Though the cream of the system is in the majors.

I also wouldn't be stunned if tge front office is willing to trade a lot of the farm system, they're not their guys.

But Jay and Gonsalves are getting nothing right now, Romero not much more.

Jay maybe.

 

Everyone has half a dozen Gonsalves in their system.

[ashbury]

Everyone has half a dozen Gonsalves in their system.

Who, if we try to trade for, require our best player in return.

 

It's hard trading for prospects, except when it's our prospects under discussion.

[Thrylos]

 

 

 

 

What would it take to get Liriano for the rest of the season?

 

 

Patience. 

 

Toronto is 6 games away from a wild card spot (same with San Francisco, the worst NL team.)  This is a good winning streak away from being relevant.   They will not sell now.

 

Have that number be 10-15 and then talks might start.  Could be as soon as the end of the month.

 

I think that the Twins have a really good trading chip for a rental pitcher in the minors:  Kyle Gibson.

 

The pen needs work as well.  Kintzler this season has been irritating to say the least.

[DaveW]

Why exactly is gibson a good trade chip? A guy with a 6.00 ERA the last 2 years, who is about to get expensive, zero trade value IMO

[Winston Smith]

If we only had Duensing on the roster anything would be possible.

[amjgt]

Jay maybe.

 

Everyone has half a dozen Gonsalves in their system.

That's just silly

[drivlikejehu]

 

That's just silly

 

Not really. They don't literally have 6 left-handed starters that are similar to Gonsalves, but almost every org does have a group of solid but unspectacular prospects without particularly high ceilings.

[Thrylos]

 

Why exactly is gibson a good trade chip? A guy with a 6.00 ERA the last 2 years, who is about to get expensive, zero trade value IMO

 

Not really.  He had some MLB success, is under control for a couple of season, and an excellent reclamation project.   A team knows what his potential is, unlike someone like Gonsalves or even Stewart who have never pitched in the bigs.

[Willihammer]

 

Who, if we try to trade for, require our best player in return.

 

It's hard trading for prospects, except when it's our prospects under discussion.

Exactly. In the span of 10 posts prospects went from "overvalued" to "almost worthless."

 

MN sports fans for ya!

[Don't Feed the Greed Guy]

 

If you are in contention and you have a hole.

 

You fill it. 

 

The premise of this discussion is that you fill that hole via trade. The overreach of a Matt Capps for Wilson Ramos is the cautionary example, locked in the jaws of our organizational memory like a bad "cap" on a rotten root canal. 

 

The best way to fill that hole is not via trade, but by promoting from within. Jose Berrios may be the answer to this pitching question. That's the best, next option, before reaching for the dentist's drill marked "trade."

[Willihammer]

 

To put it another way, Gordon and Berrios would net something good and controlled.

Beyond that, the next group is Mejia/Gonsalves/Romero. They'll get something similar to what Mejia got last year, an ok player (Nunez) with 2 years control or a slightly better rental.

And stacking mediocre prospects isn't going to move the needle much.

Don't think its that cut and dry. If we're talking about the Yankees, who are in contention, rich, and have a strong system, the value is going to be different than a team like the Rays or A's who are basically cash strapped farm teams for the rest of the league.