Adrianza and Rucinski added to 25 man roster, DanSan DFA'd

[Otto von Ballpark]

Very little, but that's not really on this front office. It appears they went and got the guy they wanted in Adrianza, unfortunately he got injured in Spring Training.

Not sure the Adrianza claim can be described as "they went and got the guy they wanted" -- they actually passed on him a week before they claimed him, when Milwaukee was granted the original claim.

 

Apparently they liked Adrianza, but not enough to DFA Park 3 days earlier to guarantee they could get him.

[ThejacKmp]

 

I can't say I'm sad to see DanSan go. I think the Twins get a slight upgrade on defense with Adrianza but the hitting is probably a wash. 

 

I think you have a great point about how he is used. If Adrianza stays in the OF like Santana then I'm all for giving somebody other than Danny a look. I've been calling for a 4th OFer for a while now. If he's used as the utility IFer as well and they're benching Escobar's bat and forcing Grossman to be the 4th OFer then I'm with you 100%, I think at best it's a horizontal move.

 

I suppose there are a lot of ways to utilize him, which is a good thing, but hopefully his primary role is as the 4th OFer. 

 

See I don't want Adrianza in the OF. I remember Escobar in the OF and it was awful.

 

I want Grossman as 4th OF against tough lefties and I want Escobar as primary utility IF. Adrianza should be used as a defensive replacement I guess? Not sure I know how much better he is than Polanco.

 

I'd much rather have Park for pinch hitting. 

[drjim]

See I don't want Adrianza in the OF. I remember Escobar in the OF and it was awful.

 

I want Grossman as 4th OF against tough lefties and I want Escobar as primary utility IF. Adrianza should be used as a defensive replacement I guess? Not sure I know how much better he is than Polanco.

 

I'd much rather have Park for pinch hitting.

Park. Still injured.

[ThejacKmp]

 

I find it hard to believe that anyone is a step back from Dan San in the OF, even Grossman.  Adrianza is supposedly an 80 glove at SS and he hit in ST so I see him as a BIG step up from Dan San. The tough call comes when Park is ready in Rochester. IS he even there yet from the strained hammy?

 

Danny Santana is clearly better than Grossman. And I have a hard time believing that Adrianza, who has never played OF at the MLB level and whose entire MILB experience in the OF is three games at Rochester, is going to be anything but a disaster in the OF. He's a good SS but I've seen enough of Escobar and Nunez in the OF to say that most IFs look like garbage in the OF. Santana was at least relatively competent.

 

The Twins were playing Santana too much but Buxton is an injury risk - Grossman is going to be playing a decent amount of OF and that should scare us. The silver lining is Vargas is going to get all of the time at DH he wants.

 

This is a very lateral move and any injuries in the OF could make this something the Twins really regret.

[Twinfan & Dad]

You naysayers crack me up. You actually think the new FO has a secret plan to make terrible moves with player personal. Give these guys a chance. You want them to come in and make all these changes but the problem is our young potential replacements are hurt or aren't ready. Gibson and DanSan proved under the watch of the new FO that they sucked and they then made the move. It is apparent that Falvey and Co. WILL NOT CLEAN HOUSE! Instead slow but sure, 1 or 2 moves at a time this team will be composed of his guys. As the old saying goes, "Rome wasn't built in a day". Go Twins!

[ThejacKmp]

 

Park. Still injured.

 

Yeah, I just mean when he's back. Adrianza adds nothing of value to this team - we don't particularly need to replace Polanco late, Escobar has been a great utility guy per usual and he isn't going to be an upgrade over Santana with the bat or the glove in the OF. I also think the Twins minor league IF depth is much better than their OF depth - Escobar is ready to step in 2B, SS and 3B and the Twins can always being up Tommy Field or Vielma to take over that backup role. In the OF you have Granite and Palka - Palka seems more like a DH/1B type and Granite isn't exactly ready for the majors.

 

I'd've kept Santana til Park was ready because he can pinch run and steal a base. And then I'd bring Park up for him.

[jorgenswest]

Adrianza is a very good defensive SS. Santana may have a better bat, more speed and better defense in the outfield but he doesn't do any of those at an average level.

 

Is it better to have the contribution of one above average major league skill as opposed to a wide mix of below average skills? How will the Twins utilize that one skill?

[drjim]

Yeah, I just mean when he's back. Adrianza adds nothing of value to this team - we don't particularly need to replace Polanco late, Escobar has been a great utility guy per usual and he isn't going to be an upgrade over Santana with the bat or the glove in the OF. I also think the Twins minor league IF depth is much better than their OF depth - Escobar is ready to step in 2B, SS and 3B and the Twins can always being up Tommy Field or Vielma to take over that backup role. In the OF you have Granite and Palka - Palka seems more like a DH/1B type and Granite isn't exactly ready for the majors.

 

I'd've kept Santana til Park was ready because he can pinch run and steal a base. And then I'd bring Park up for him.

This makes sense, but I fear Park will be out for a while still.

 

And I know the Mauer/Park/Vargas rotation had been talked about a lot, but that really does hamper roster flexibility and gives no DH space for Sano (or Grossman to a lesser extent).

 

I'm not sure I would want another guy who can't play a position.

[Riverbrian]

 

Danny Santana is clearly better than Grossman. And I have a hard time believing that Adrianza, who has never played OF at the MLB level and whose entire MILB experience in the OF is three games at Rochester, is going to be anything but a disaster in the OF. He's a good SS but I've seen enough of Escobar and Nunez in the OF to say that most IFs look like garbage in the OF. Santana was at least relatively competent.

 

The Twins were playing Santana too much but Buxton is an injury risk - Grossman is going to be playing a decent amount of OF and that should scare us. The silver lining is Vargas is going to get all of the time at DH he wants.

 

This is a very lateral move and any injuries in the OF could make this something the Twins really regret.

 

I don't recall the same Escobar in the OF that you do. 

 

Nunez and Sano were pretty sore thumbie out there but I don't recall Escobar being garbage in LF.

 

Are you talking about the 27 games he started in LF in 2015?

 

Those LF starts that were primarily in May of 2015. The same month the team went 20-7. 

[Twinsbar107]

 

There is always a whipping boy on these boards. I wonder who the next candidate is....

He is already here, (Mauer). It seems like the Twins could win the WS this year, and people on here still wouldn't be happy with the new FO.

[terrydactyls]

Remember an infielder with Milwaukee named Molitor. He got moved to the outfield. If I remember correctly, he did okay out there. Let the front office do what it's being paid to do, and enjoy these moments of good baseball from the Twins. There are still five more months left in the season and plenty of time for all your "picks to click" to be called up.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Not sure the Adrianza claim can be described as "they went and got the guy they wanted" -- they actually passed on him a week before they claimed him, when Milwaukee was granted the original claim.

 

Apparently they liked Adrianza, but not enough to DFA Park 3 days earlier to guarantee they could get him.

I don't mean the FO was/is in love with Adrianza, only that they liked him more than Santana.

[Oldgoat_MN]

Here is what I consider a potentially disturbing trend.
The new FO really like their guys. Gimenez, Breslow, Tepesch, Haley, Adrianza and Rucinski are all getting playing time. You can make a solid case for Gimenez. The others are less certain at this point.

I suspect that if Adrianza had not been injured at the start of the season that either Polanco or Escobar would have been DFAed and sent to AAA. We would have no idea that Jorge could play the position as well as he has.

Given the way this FO is playing things I expect Rucinski to be the 5th starter. Berrios or Mejia may see MLB time later if someone else in the rotation is a spectacular failure.

Ego can be a dangerous thing. Keeping Haley and promoting their guys over players who might be part of a future winning Twins team has me worried.
I’ll be anxious to see this trend take a turn in another direction soon.

[DaveW]

He is already here, (Mauer). It seems like the Twins could win the WS this year, and people on here still wouldn't be happy with the new FO.

Hyperbole is fun!

[DaveW]

There is always a whipping boy on these boards. I wonder who the next candidate is....

Give me a break, Santana was never a whipping boy. Many of us just said it made zero sense for someone like him to be on a rebuilding club. Zero upside, a minus player across the board (basically replacement level) that's just stating reality.

 

Let him catch on with an NL club as a depth piece, best of luck to him, but as mentioned there always were better current options on this club over the past couple years, and especially moving forward.

[howieramone2]

 

We have a lot more retreads in AAA that can be brought up.  Lets keep that train a rolling.

 

I think that the evidence supports that the Twins system simply does not reward their own prospects, and prefers to bring up washouts from other teams, particularly if they have touched the major leagues, even though most of those performances were terrible. 

 

Again, the Twins can pretend they are "contenders" but this hodge podge roster of older players with a handful of younger guys is just delaying the developmental issues that will come when we need to transition to a staff that will play into the future.  

15-12

[DaveW]

Also should be noted that the most frustrating part of Santana (and how the Twins used him) isn't even his fault.

The most damaging aspect of the Santana era is when they decided that HE should be their 4th OF/back up CF last year. That led them to trading away Hicks, who not only would have been a premium 4th OF, but suddenly looks like at the very least a 3-3.5 WAR player (and potential all start type if he keeps it up)

In reality, Santana never ever should have been considered anything more than an absolute emergency option in the OF, he was never going to hit enough to even justify being a 4th OF.

 

He is basically a "meh" MI util type player.

Again, that will play in the NL, especially if a team needs a warm "professional" body if they experience some injuries, but for a team like the Twins? No way.

[howieramone2]

 

You naysayers crack me up. You actually think the new FO has a secret plan to make terrible moves with player personal. Give these guys a chance. You want them to come in and make all these changes but the problem is our young potential replacements are hurt or aren't ready. Gibson and DanSan proved under the watch of the new FO that they sucked and they then made the move. It is apparent that Falvey and Co. WILL NOT CLEAN HOUSE! Instead slow but sure, 1 or 2 moves at a time this team will be composed of his guys. As the old saying goes, "Rome wasn't built in a day". Go Twins!

Bingo!

[howieramone2]

He is already here, (Mauer). It seems like the Twins could win the WS this year, and people on here still wouldn't be happy with the new FO.

My hope is that when Seth and Jeremy are asked to join the FO, folks will understand what a great job the search committee did. Even Theo didn't win a World Series in his first 6 months.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Also should be noted that the most frustrating part of Santana (and how the Twins used him) isn't even his fault.

The most damaging aspect of the Santana era is when they decided that HE should be their 4th OF/back up CF last year. That led them to trading away Hicks, who not only would have been a premium 4th OF, but suddenly looks like at the very least a 3-3.5 WAR player (and potential all start type if he keeps it up)

In reality, Santana never ever should have been considered anything more than an absolute emergency option in the OF, he was never going to hit enough to even justify being a 4th OF.

 

He is basically a "meh" MI util type player.

Again, that will play in the NL, especially if a team needs a warm "professional" body if they experience some injuries, but for a team like the Twins? No way.

 

I agree, I don't think the Twins did many favors by Santana.  They called up a middling player in 2014 who shocked them with his production and then I think his development went off the rails.

 

Likely though, he was never going to be much.

 

I don't mind having him in AAA and maybe someone could work with him on his baserunning and defense so he could actually be a viable bench piece.

[SadMinnySportsFan]

RIP Santana! Ive been wanting him off the roster for a long time, hes just terrible. Adrianza has a good glove, which is what you want a utility player to have. Danny S was could play multiple positions, but all poorly.

Tepesch and Rucinski I am not super happy about, but understand it. Sounds like Rucinski is just going to be the long reliever until they need a 5th starter, and Molly has said it will be Mejia or Berrois (thank god).
Tepesch appears to just be a place holder, depth move for now. My hope is whomever doesn't get the call between Berrios and Mejia will take his spot in the rotation soon.

 

[DaveW]

 

I agree, I don't think the Twins did many favors by Santana.  They called up a middling player in 2014 who shocked them with his production and then I think his development went off the rails.

 

 

It really cant be stated enough, Santana had a completely and utterly unsustainable .404 BABIP in 2014.

Since 1945, there has been exactly ONE hitter (qualified) who posted over .404 in a single season, and that was Rod Carew in 1978. The other two right behind Santana are Roberto Clemente and Manny Ramierez. 3 hall of famers basically.

Which begs a less important, but IMO a more interesting question:

Did Danny Santana have the luckiest season in the history of baseball?
I would say yes.

Can Santana potentially get better than he is now? Sure.

But anybody thinking he can replicate his rookie season or anything close to it? I would suggest that it's about 20x more likely that Mauer suddenly hits 30HR again out of nowhere.

[TheLeviathan]

 

But anybody thinking he can replicate his rookie season or anything close to it? I would suggest that it's about 20x more likely that Mauer suddenly hits 30HR again out of nowhere.

 

Right, I wasn't suggesting that.  Just suggesting that he might have spent time actually learning a position or refining his game and instead it seems like that all stalled out.  Even with a normalized BABIP the guy should have still been able to be turned into a functional player, it's not like he is devoid of skills.  He just can't seem to make them work.

[KirbyDome89]

 

See I don't want Adrianza in the OF. I remember Escobar in the OF and it was awful.

 

I want Grossman as 4th OF against tough lefties and I want Escobar as primary utility IF. Adrianza should be used as a defensive replacement I guess? Not sure I know how much better he is than Polanco.

 

I'd much rather have Park for pinch hitting. 

I'm not beating the Adrianza drum, I have my own reservations about him being a good OFer, but given who he is replacing I can't get too worked up about him getting a shot. 

 

I really don't want to see much of Grossman in the OF. Maybe it's a situation of preferring the evil that I don't know but I'm more in favor of seeing what Adrianza can do in LF/RF rather than watch Grossman. Don't you think using him only as a late inning defensive replacement is kind of a waste of a roster spot? To me that seems like the "Danny Santana can pinch run argument." He won't replace Dozier, and unless Polanco or Sano are struggling they shouldn't be losing reps on a consistent basis either. If that is his only role then I don't see the point of having him on the 25 man. 

 

Adrianza's bat and Grossman's defense vs. Danny Santana's defense and Escobar's bat is at best a wash and I would probably give the advantage to DanSan/Escobar in the situation. They don't have to be used this way explicitly but if Adrianza isn't going to play in the OF I don't see another scenario. 

 

I've been on the Park train since they signed him, and I haven't hopped off yet, but given his early season injury and the way Vargas has played so far I ok with him staying at AAA for the time being. I would've liked to see him start the season with the Twins instead of a 13th pitcher, but that's another topic....

[Blackjack]

I was out of town and away from a computer over the weekend, I can't imagine the celebrating and partying that went on here at TD after the DFA of Santana and Tonkin!!!!

 

Everybody over their hangover??