Berrios staying in the minors?

[mikelink45]

I believe Charlie Brown said it best - Good Grief.  Buxton can learn in the bigs, Berrios has to convince some camera in the sky that the opponents are not just trying to make him look good.  How do you learn more control and do better than he is doing?  Call me a skeptic I think he is being made to crawl out of a doghouse.  

[drjim]

This I strongly disagree with. As evidenced but the results we have seen on the field, the Twins (at least) have struggled putting together a pitching staff. They had a solid offensive core in the mid 90s with Cordova, Becker, Knoblauch (before he was traded), Todd Walker, and Matt Lawton. But the pitching was terrible. They had a solid offensive core with Koskie, Guzman, Hunter, Jones, and Pierzynski but had to trade Lawton to get a starting pitcher and two of the pitchers they had were from other organizations.

 

Pitching, pitching, pitching. If you don't have it, you're toast. Because it is hard to get it. If you don't have it, you find your team overpaying for guys like Mike Pelfrey and Ricky Nolasco and over-rewarding a guy like Phil Hughes.

Pitching depth is absoluyely hard to get. But pitching is very fleeting. And often it can pop from unexpected spots. And collapse as soon as it emerges.

 

Just not the case with bats. Establish a core and then go from there.

[Platoon]

This I strongly disagree with.  As evidenced but the results we have seen on the field, the Twins (at least) have struggled putting together a pitching staff.  They had a solid offensive core in the mid 90s with Cordova, Becker, Knoblauch (before he was traded), Todd Walker, and Matt Lawton.  But the pitching was terrible.  They had a solid offensive core with Koskie, Guzman, Hunter, Jones, and Pierzynski but had to trade Lawton to get a starting pitcher and two of the pitchers they had were from other organizations.

 

Pitching, pitching, pitching.  If you don't have it, you're toast.  Because it is hard to get it.  If you don't have it, you find your team overpaying for guys like Mike Pelfrey and Ricky Nolasco and over-rewarding a guy like Phil Hughes.

Pitching pitching pitching and more pitching. And the Twins have very little. They at least have a glimmer of some BP arms in MiLB, but for starters it's mostly Berrios. Its why I would not trade Santana. They just don't have anything close to a MLB staff. Both sides of the Berrios argument have valid, and actually correct points. Berrios is one of their 5 best starters, it's not like there is any competition. That said, the let Berrios work on his craft in Rochester crowd are also correct to a point. This team is not playoff bound, use the year to set up the future as best one can.

[DaveW]

Why again is Berrios not up yet? Wouldn't it be wise to get him up in the majors for his bullpen session before his first start?

 

[yarnivek1972]

 

Then we are back to a lack of clear direction again. If the FO thinks he is one of their 5 best starters, don't you have to call him up if you believe you are contending?

But if you believe you are not contending and you truly believe that bringing Berrios up now does more harm than good, why send Gibson down? As you said, there is almost no one to bring up other than Berrios.

That is why I am not willing to blindly accept what the FO is saying. They are talking out of both sides of their mouths.

 

 

Just checking to see who is still buying the company line.  I'll hang up and listen.

[drjim]

 

Just checking to see who is still buying the company line.  I'll hang up and listen.

 

I guess I believe it more than ever. They were leaking to local press a couple weeks ago that Berrios was going to be down for a while, he had something specific to work on, and they want his next call up to be his last.

 

They are going to absurd lengths to keep this going. But I suppose it could be service time.

[Mr. Brooks]

I guess I believe it more than ever. They were leaking to local press a couple weeks ago that Berrios was going to be down for a while, he had something specific to work on, and they want his next call up to be his last.

 

They are going to absurd lengths to keep this going. But I suppose it could be service time.

Sorry but there is nothing they can see from Berrios that will guarantee he never has to be sent down again.

[Mr. Brooks]

June 27th will pass and poof! Command fixed!

[goulik]

Anyone have the date he can be called up without losing service time? When is our cut off in knowing that service time is or is not the case?

 

EDIT:

Ok, so I was typing this question while Brooks was posting the June 27th date... I assume that is the service time date?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Anyone have the date he can be called up without losing service time? When is our cut off in knowing that service time is or is not the case?

 

see one post up!

[yarnivek1972]

 

I guess I believe it more than ever. They were leaking to local press a couple weeks ago that Berrios was going to be down for a while, he had something specific to work on, and they want his next call up to be his last.

 

They are going to absurd lengths to keep this going. But I suppose it could be service time.

 

OK.  Don't want to call up Berrios, fine.  Why Wilk?  Why go out and get someone who has never been successful at AAA?  David Hurlbut is doing well down there too.  Even Jason Wheeler has better AAA numbers than Wilk.

[drjim]

 

OK.  Don't want to call up Berrios, fine.  Why Wilk?  Why go out and get someone who has never been successful at AAA?  David Hurlbut is doing well down there too.  Even Jason Wheeler has better AAA numbers than Wilk.

 

My theory would be this is a very short term fix. 1 or 2 starts and DFAed. They didn't want to do that with someone not on the 40 man that they would then risk losing.

 

But who knows really?

 

(And Seth did note Wheeler is now a reliever in the minors, so not really an option to start).

[drjim]

 

June 27th will pass and poof! Command fixed!

 

This could be. That would be disappointing on multiple levels.

[Mike Sixel]

 

My theory would be this is a very short term fix. 1 or 2 starts and DFAed. They didn't want to do that with someone not on the 40 man that they would then risk losing.

 

But who knows really?

 

(And Seth did note Wheeler is now a reliever in the minors, so not really an option to start).

 

Those AAA guys are too good to risk losing, but not good enough to come up instead of Tepesch or Wilk? 

[drjim]

 

Those AAA guys are too good to risk losing, but not good enough to come up instead of Tepesch or Wilk? 

 

Apparently. And it makes some sense. Seems that Wheeler and Wimmers are in the pen, so aren't a position to make a spot start. They might want to see more from Turley.

 

The other guys are probably a wash.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Apparently. And it makes some sense. Seems that Wheeler and Wimmers are in the pen, so aren't a position to make a spot start. They might want to see more from Turley.

 

The other guys are probably a wash.

 

If it's a wash, why not give a shot to a guy that has toiled in your system, rather than a guy that's never shown he's good above AA, and was just cut to make room for Tommy Milone?

 

That would be a lot better message...

[Mr. Brooks]

Those AAA guys are too good to risk losing, but not good enough to come up instead of Tepesch or Wilk?

Yes. This, big time.

Also, who isn't ready to take those starts now that magically will be ready in 1 to 2 turns off the rotation?

 

I think the people saying Berrios isn't ready now, but don't worry he'll be up soon, overestimate how much development can happen in 1 or 2 or 3 starts.

If Berrios truly isn't ready now, then nobody can say for sure that he ever will be.

And if he suddenly is ready 1 or 2 or 3 starts from now, then IMO he was just as ready now.

[drjim]

 

If it's a wash, why not give a shot to a guy that has toiled in your system, rather than a guy that's never shown he's good above AA, and was just cut to make room for Tommy Milone?

 

That would be a lot better message...

 

Good question. Maybe keep Rochester stable if it doesn't really make a difference.

[yarnivek1972]

 

My theory would be this is a very short term fix. 1 or 2 starts and DFAed. They didn't want to do that with someone not on the 40 man that they would then risk losing.

 

But who knows really?

 

(And Seth did note Wheeler is now a reliever in the minors, so not really an option to start).

 

 

I'd say it is more accurate that Wheeler made one relief appearance due to the fact that the Red Wings were rained out in like half their games last week and he had not pitched in 10 days.  Turley relieved in that same game, likely for the same reason.  I don't think the plan is for them all to stay in the pen.  Right now, they have Gibson, Berrios, Mejia, Hurlbut "for sure" and the choice of Slegers, Turley and Wheeler.  Wheeler has pitched better than Slegers this year.  If they wanted to simply bump someone, it would more likely have been him.  And it re-emphasizes that the Twins didn't need to comb the waiver wire for a "quick fix" when they had 2-3 in Rochester that could have done the job just as easily.

[Linus]

According to Beredino Berrios is starting Saturday. Everyone can now back away from the ledge.....

[USAFChief]

 

According to Beredino Berrios is starting Saturday. Everyone can now back away from the ledge.....

until he ****s the bed

[drjim]

Good to see his command is fixed and that Falvey is no longer mad about his WBC participation.

[KirbyDome89]

Better late than never.....but seriously it was about f***ing time 

[Oldgoat_MN]

I just really hope Berrios is successful. As much for him as my beloved Twins.

I expect this news will have its own thread in the morning.

[Squirrel]

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/25883-article-jo-20-will-adjustments-pay-off-for-berrios/