Jason Turbow on Sano

[gunnarthor]

https://thebaseballcodes.com/2017/04/25/message-delivered-detroit-baits-sano-into-disastrous-reaction/

 

Turbow wrote the great book - The Baseball Codes - that discussed the changes in baseball's unwritten rules over the years.  It really is one of the more entertaining books I've ever read about baseball.  He has a blog where he continues to discuss it and in this article he discusses Sano and the Tigers.

 

"Whether or not one agrees with the concept of retaliatory pitches in baseball, one must accept the fact that such things exist, and understand that an appropriate response will go a long way toward maintaining general sanity on the premises ... Prevailing notion holds that even innocent pitchers who can’t control their stuff shouldn’t be throwing up and in. Should they do so, plunking a teammate in response issues a powerful deterrent for similar pursuits in the future."  

 

Basically, the Tigers are angry that the Twins rule v pick hit one of their batters up and in.  Interestingly, another rule v pick, J.R. Graham broke a Royal's hitter (Alex Rios) hand a couple years ago.  After Graham hit Rios, Molitor didn't use him nearly as much. And now Haley went to the DL for a time out as well.  So Molitor probably understood things but didn't explain it to Sano.  Turbow argues that Sano should have understood that a pitch was going to come for him and not escalated the scenario.  By doing so, Sano ended up thrown out of that game but also getting a suspension.  

[a-wan]

A rule v guy hitting the crappy outfield in the face screams accident. The fact that they threw behind Sano is ridiculous on its own, and the Tigers should know he's going to get ticked off. I don't blame Sano one bit. This old baseball rule is so stupid

[KirbyDome89]

So a Twins hitter ACCIDENTALLY hits a Tigers batter in the face. Now Sano is supposed to "just accept," that he will have a 90+ mph fastball chucked at him? Oh and he is also the bad guy for apparently escalating the situation? C'mon....

[drjim]

I don't really see anything wrong with what Sano did. He pointed and yelled at the pitcher. If McCann doesn't touch him nothing happens. And the pitcher probably stays in too.

[Thrylos]

Sano is the victim here.  By both the Tiger's catcher and pitcher.  Who did not get punished for starting this whole thing.   The message that the league gives is that it is ok to retaliate and the batter should just "take it".  

 

I wonder if they feel the same next time the Twins face the Tigers and the Twins' pitcher throws behind Kinsler.  Because this is exactly what baseball (and Turbow) are advocating right now...

[gunnarthor]

 

So a Twins hitter ACCIDENTALLY hits a Tigers batter in the face. Now Sano is supposed to "just accept," that he will have a 90+ mph fastball chucked at him? Oh and he is also the bad guy for apparently escalating the situation? C'mon....

Is it fair for your batters to have to stand in against someone who can't control his pitches? At the end of the day, Haley put their starting CF on the DL by hitting him in the head.  I can see why they'd be pissed.  And I can also see why they don't want the Twins to do that again.  

 

I can also see Sano's side.  I wonder if Molitor had told him "you're going to get drilled in the butt" if his reaction would have been the same.

[70charger]

 

I wonder if Molitor had told him "you're going to get drilled in the butt" if his reaction would have been the same.

 

[Vanimal46]

The really stupid thing about this unwritten rule: 

Yeah, so Haley plunked their CF. Didn't see the pitch, but from reading others on here, it was an accident. 

Because Haley doesn't get to hit, the Tigers get to CHOOSE who they want to plunk on the Twins. So they choose the team's best player. If the whole point of the rule is to retaliate and things are over, how is that fair that the Tigers get to decide when and whom is getting plunked? 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Is it fair for your batters to have to stand in against someone who can't control his pitches? At the end of the day, Haley put their starting CF on the DL by hitting him in the head.  I can see why they'd be pissed.  And I can also see why they don't want the Twins to do that again.  

 

I can also see Sano's side.  I wonder if Molitor had told him "you're going to get drilled in the butt" if his reaction would have been the same.

 

They can be pissed, but it was clearly an accident. Not sure how throwing at Sano will a: stop someone from not doing something they didn't do; b: make it so Haley has enough control to not do it again.

[gunnarthor]

 

What happens in the locker room, stays in the locker room.

[TheLeviathan]

The irony in this statement is almost too rich:

 

It wasn’t a swing though, and should hardly have been enough to spur Sano into the action he took.

 

 

It's almost as if you could apply that same thing to, I don't know, every unwritten rules situation.

 

In any case, we see the real problem for baseball.  Too many latin players not being "appropriate enough".  Gotta learn 'em somehow!  

[BrianTrottier]

 

Is it fair for your batters to have to stand in against someone who can't control his pitches? At the end of the day, Haley put their starting CF on the DL by hitting him in the head.

 

Getting accidentally plunked is a risk the batter takes when stepping into the box. Hence the use of batting helmets. What's unfair is for a pitcher to try and intentionally drill a guy who was standing by third base at the time of the initial play.

[gunnarthor]

 

Getting accidentally plunked is a risk the batter takes when stepping into the box. Hence the use of batting helmets. What's unfair is for a pitcher to try and intentionally drill a guy who was standing by third base at the time of the initial play.

I'm not sure it's "unfair" in the sense that's how it works.  I mean, yeah, it sucks for Sano but baseball has been played like that for 120 years. Sure, it's not always like it has been.  Pitchers used to pluck hitters if the hitter in front of them hit a home run.  And maybe in five years there will be no more pitchers hitting batters.  But paying the other team back for a hit in the head has been around long enough that everyone knew someone on the Twins team was going to pay for it. 

[Riverbrian]

The unwritten rules suck... end of sentence. 

 

Don't care about McCann... Boyd... Jones... or any of the Tigers.

 

I'm just glad that some blood pressure got raised with someone in Twins uniform.  I'm not a big fan of even keel... it's a long season type stuff.

 

I'm 100% in support of emotion for all 162 games. I just wish the Twins wouldn't have followed Saturday up with lackluster play on Sunday. 

[yarnivek1972]

Is it fair for your batters to have to stand in against someone who can't control his pitches? At the end of the day, Haley put their starting CF on the DL by hitting him in the head. I can see why they'd be pissed. And I can also see why they don't want the Twins to do that again.

 

I can also see Sano's side. I wonder if Molitor had told him "you're going to get drilled in the butt" if his reaction would have been the same.

If Haley had shown evidence that control was a problem, you might have an argument. Anyone can have one get away. Haley has only walked 3 in 13 IP. That's hardly evidence that he can't control his pitches consistently.

[gunnarthor]

 

If Haley had shown evidence that control was a problem, you might have an argument. Anyone can have one get away. Haley has only walked 3 in 13 IP. That's hardly evidence that he can't control his pitches consistently.

I suspect the Tigers only care about that one at-bat.

[yarnivek1972]

I suspect the Tigers only care about that one at-bat.

Sano didn't really do anything but bark a little. He didn't shove McCann until McCann hit him in the face with his glove. THAT is when the situation escalated. Was he supposed to just take that? Would you??? That is why McCann should also have been suspended. HE is the one who escalated the minute he laid hands on Sano. That is NOT his job. Sano wasn't charging the mound. There was no physical threat to his pitcher. McCann chose to escalate a verbal confrontation into a physical one.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Is it fair for your batters to have to stand in against someone who can't control his pitches? At the end of the day, Haley put their starting CF on the DL by hitting him in the head.  I can see why they'd be pissed.  And I can also see why they don't want the Twins to do that again.  

 

I can also see Sano's side.  I wonder if Molitor had told him "you're going to get drilled in the butt" if his reaction would have been the same.

Batters get hit...it happens and almost always it isn't purposeful. Such is the nature of being a hitter. Its unfortunate that Jones was hit in the face but those freak plays do happen. When you say you can see why they don't want the Twins to do that again you make it sound like Haley was aiming for his face.

 

I agree with a lot of the above statements. If the Tigers are so incensed by the HBP then why not go after Haley. I'm not saying that is the right move either but throwing at a player who had nothing to do with the incident is a chicken s**t move IMO.

 

Oh and the cherry on top is the notion that Sano is somehow to blame for the "escalation," because he was upset after being thrown at and and shoved. What a joke...

[Mike Sixel]

I do agree with the sentiment that McCann escalated it, and yet it is Sano that gets the suspension....

[TheBoofIsLoose]

 

I'm not sure it's "unfair" in the sense that's how it works.  I mean, yeah, it sucks for Sano but baseball has been played like that for 120 years. Sure, it's not always like it has been.  Pitchers used to pluck hitters if the hitter in front of them hit a home run.  And maybe in five years there will be no more pitchers hitting batters.  But paying the other team back for a hit in the head has been around long enough that everyone knew someone on the Twins team was going to pay for it. 

 

We should be getting to the point where retaliation is being phased out. Pitchers are throwing harder than ever and pose more risk by intentionally throwing at batters. Besides, a Rule V rookie still trying to make an impression on his team is not deliberately trying to hit another rookie. None of this should allow the Tigers to throw at and potentially injure Sano. A disproportionate response to an accidental situation.

[yarnivek1972]

I actually have no problem with what Boyd did. He didn't actually hit Sano first of all. He was sending a message. And if the pitch had hit Sano, it was exactly where it should have been. Hip high. BIG problem with someone intentionally throwing at the head. If the Tigers seriously think that is what Haley did, they are clueless. Sano probably deserves one game for what he did, but McCann deserves at least that much. The benches cleared because of what McCann did. Joe Torre chose to ignore that.

[mazeville]

Baseball's unwritten rules are all stupid and need to go. Seriously. It's just dumb, childish B.S.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I actually have no problem with what Boyd did. He didn't actually hit Sano first of all. He was sending a message. And if the pitch had hit Sano, it was exactly where it should have been. Hip high. BIG problem with someone intentionally throwing at the head. If the Tigers seriously think that is what Haley did, they are clueless. Sano probably deserves one game for what he did, but McCann deserves at least that much. The benches cleared because of what McCann did. Joe Torre chose to ignore that.

 

the message being what? don't accidentally do something? How does one control an accident?

[gunnarthor]

 

the message being what? don't accidentally do something? How does one control an accident?

Don't have a ****ty pitcher throw up and in? Don't hit our players? I mean, everyone thinks McCann escalated the Sano situation but McCann's glove accidentally touched Sano's face.  It wasn't purposeful.  Yet we, as Twins fans, are enraged.  The Tigers saw a teammate get cracked in the mouth.  

[Thrylos]

 

 McCann's glove accidentally touched Sano's face.

 

Do you really believe that?  Next will hear that Sano head-butted McCann's glove...

 

Gee.

[yarnivek1972]

Don't have a ****ty pitcher throw up and in? Don't hit our players? I mean, everyone thinks McCann escalated the Sano situation but McCann's glove accidentally touched Sano's face. It wasn't purposeful. Yet we, as Twins fans, are enraged. The Tigers saw a teammate get cracked in the mouth.

Haley's pitch accidentally touched Jones' face. It wasn't purposeful. Yet, Tigers players are enraged.

 

That door swings both ways sir. McCann escalated. Nothing you can say will convince me otherwise. That is why he appealed. That is exactly the point the Twins will make.

[TheLeviathan]

The only time I get enraged is when someone (on any team, including the Twins) intentionally tries to hurt someone else.

 

Accidents happen, resorting to retaliation over them is beyond childish.  

[Celebrity Weddings!]

Guy targeted intentionally with 90mph fastball: That's bad

 

Guy not exposed to cockeyed retributive violence: the thing you think is bad is actually good

[TheLeviathan]

 

Do you really believe that?  Next will hear that Sano head-butted McCann's glove...

 

Gee.

 

I think Sano walked into his glove.  He may have even lifted McCann's arm and hit himself with it.

 

Darn inappropriate behavior.....shame on Sano amiright?

[gunnarthor]

 

Haley's pitch accidentally touched Jones' face. It wasn't purposeful. Yet, Tigers players are enraged.

That door swings both ways sir. McCann escalated. Nothing you can say will convince me otherwise. That is why he appealed. That is exactly the point the Twins will make.

Sure, I get that.  But we as Twins fans are more upset about McCann's glove than Haley's pitch.  Tiger fans are, unsurprisingly, the opposite.  Twins fans say the pitch was an accident and even most Tiger fans agree.  Tiger fans say McCann's glove touching was accidental at best although Twins fans are less inclined to believe that.  Tigers think some retribution should happen for Haley's pitch, Twin fans disagree.  Twin's fans think some retribution should come from McCann's action as well, Tiger fans probably disagree.