Jorge Polanco

[yarnivek1972]

Because they have not 1 SP that we know is a starter past 2018. Not 1. The AA pitchers are not doing well (Stewart looking bad, Jay moved to RP), Gonsalves is hurt, and Berrios is not good enough to be on this roster, apparently.

 

Kind of hard to win with zero starting pitchers.

 

That said, I'd try to hold onto him, and move Dozier. But, Dozier isn't making that easy right now....

Kind of hard to win without a shortstop too. Berrios will be up no later than May 6. It's entirely possible he comes up Friday for Gibson. Is pitching a concern? Obviously.

 

For better or worse, Hughes isn't going anywhere. I think he can still give the team 6-7 innings of decent pitching every 5th day. It's up to the Twins if Ervin is here until at least 2019. I'm on the fence on that one. I guess it depends on what offers come across. If the Twins get a Viola-esque offer, I think they need to take it. Santiago is also pretty much their call as to if he stays or goes. I guess I have a lot more confidence that Falvey and Levine will handle it (short term and long term) than I would have with Terry Ryan in charge. I am pretty sure they consider 2017 an evaluation year. I think there will be more changes this offseason.

[Vanimal46]

 

How would you acquire even 1 SP for the future if you won't trade Dozier?

 

Trading Dozier has always made the most sense... And was discussed at length over the off-season. However, if there truly is not a market for Dozier (sigh) and they're forced to keep him, then other players need to be on the trading block. 

Guys like Nick Gordon, Wander Javier, etc. 

[Linus]

No, he's a free agent at the end of the season.

Thanks Brock. Then I'm with you-trade him at the deadline. He's not worth pursuing at free agency money.

[DaveW]

Why would you trade Polanco? He's still under team control for 5 years AFTER this year. Are you really convinced that Gordon will A) stick at SS? hit enough to contribute at the MLB level? Why not let it play out? Why trade a 23 year old? That's silly.

I already answered this: you look to trade Polanco for some much much much much much much much much needed high upside SP help.

[gunnarthor]

I'm not sure Polanco is as valuable on the trade market as we think.  The jury is still out on his ability to play short.  He's a good player who does a lot of little things right but he doesn't do anything great. Those kind of players tend to be underrated by the market. He does have a lot of service time left so that's a big plus.  But would we trade him straight up for Justus Sheffield (assuming the  Yankees would)?  He's #74 on mlbpipeline's list and in AA.  

[yarnivek1972]

 

I'm not sure Polanco is as valuable on the trade market as we think.  The jury is still out on his ability to play short.  He's a good player who does a lot of little things right but he doesn't do anything great. Those kind of players tend to be underrated by the market. He does have a lot of service time left so that's a big plus.  But would we trade him straight up for Justus Sheffield (assuming the  Yankees would)?  He's #74 on mlbpipeline's list and in AA.  

This.

 

You certainly aren't going to get "high upside" starting pitching for him.  He's way too much of an unknown.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Other assets to trade, draft, free agency, develop their internal guys. The usual.

 

It's no sure thing they would get a SP in the future even if they did trade Dozier. If they did the trade people wanted last offseason, they'd have a guy heading towards TJ. That doesn't do anything for the franchise. Keep good players if you can't get a good return for them.

 

That's pretty generic. I said if you can't trade Dozier, that you need to consider trading Polanco to get pitching. That's how the discussion started. 

 

As for your comment on the trade not happening, of course there is no guarantee. There is no guarantee in any of this, but if you don't act out of fear, not sure how they plan to get better.

 

Which internal guys you betting are a 3 or better, in the next 4 years or so? Which big time FA do you expect the Twins to buy, given their 50+ years of history?

[gheggs42]

What happens to Dozier if Gordon reaches his potential and is up next year? Would he ever be open to a position change? 1B? 3B? Or could Polanco slide to 3B with Gordon at SS? I like Dozier and you need some veteran guys like him to help the young guys grow. 

[DaveW]

This.

 

You certainly aren't going to get "high upside" starting pitching for him. He's way too much of an unknown.

Ben Revere netted us a high upside starting pitcher at the time (May)

 

Players like polanco net good players all the time, he could definitely bring back a top 50-75prospect or two.

[Mike Sixel]

I think most of us really like having Brian Dozier on the roster.

 

I think some of us realize they don't have any SP they can rely on past next year, none. I do believe Berrios will be reliable, but I don't know it.

 

I think some of us think that between Polacno, Gordon and Vielma, they have the MI covered for several years, even w/o Dozier. Therefore, some of us think Dozier should be traded. 

 

If they can't get value for Dozier, then, imo, you have to consider trading one of the others. But, minor league for minor league trades pretty much NEVER happen. So, that leaves Polanco.....

[70charger]

 

What happens to Dozier if Gordon reaches his potential and is up next year? Would he ever be open to a position change? 1B? 3B? Or could Polanco slide to 3B with Gordon at SS? I like Dozier and you need some veteran guys like him to help the young guys grow. 

 

Depending on the players' comfort level with it, I'd say an infield of 3B: Polanco, SS: Gordon, 2B: Dozier, and 1B: Sano looks pretty good.

 

But I kind of fear a Dozier extension. He'll justifiably want a lot of years, and he's not exactly young anymore. 

[DaveW]

I love Dozier as a player, but signing him to a 4-5 year 90-120 million extension is not a smart move for this club.

[yarnivek1972]

 

That's pretty generic. I said if you can't trade Dozier, that you need to consider trading Polanco to get pitching. That's how the discussion started. 

 

As for your comment on the trade not happening, of course there is no guarantee. There is no guarantee in any of this, but if you don't act out of fear, not sure how they plan to get better.

 

Which internal guys you betting are a 3 or better, in the next 4 years or so? Which big time FA do you expect the Twins to buy, given their 50+ years of history?

I think Romero will be.  Gonsalves might be if injuries don't slow him down.  He lacks elite stuff, but there is something to be said about a guy that can put up elite numbers without elite stuff.  Brad Radke never lit up anyone's radar gun.  Some guys just know how to pitch.  A darkhorse might be Lachlan Wells.  His first two starts for Fort Myers were very good.  Last one, not so much.  But he was very good in Cedar Rapids last year.  I actually saw one of his starts in person.  He maintained low 90s velocity through 8 IP.  He might be up in 4 years, but I don't know if he'll be a 3 or higher then, or ever.  Just too far away to project.

[yarnivek1972]

 

I think most of us really like having Brian Dozier on the roster.

 

I think some of us realize they don't have any SP they can rely on past next year, none. I do believe Berrios will be reliable, but I don't know it.

 

I think some of us think that between Polacno, Gordon and Vielma, they have the MI covered for several years, even w/o Dozier. Therefore, some of us think Dozier should be traded. 

 

If they can't get value for Dozier, then, imo, you have to consider trading one of the others. But, minor league for minor league trades pretty much NEVER happen. So, that leaves Polanco.....

 

 

Who is still considerably short of even a full year of service time.  Guys like that rarely get traded either because they are still too big of a risk.  It really is not much different than trading a top prospect.  You are banking on future results based on limited history.  The return just won't be there.  I don't know what the Twins would get for Dozier right now, but I guarantee they would get far less for Polanco.

[yarnivek1972]

One of the biggest obstacles in getting high value for Dozier is the state of second baseman in the league.  Fifteen second baseman hit 20 or more HR last year.  So, that immediately cuts potential destinations in half.  How many of the remaining teams expect to contend in 2017?  How many of them have pitching to spare?

 

The Twins were never going to "hoodwink" some team's GM into believing that Dozier was going to all of a sudden be a perennial 40 HR guy.  Most GMs aren't that gullible.The league sees him as a 20-25 HR, 15-20 SB, .250 hitter that plays very good defense, period.

[Mike Sixel]

 

One of the biggest obstacles in getting high value for Dozier is the state of second baseman in the league.  Fifteen second baseman hit 20 or more HR last year.  So, that immediately cuts potential destinations in half.  How many of the remaining teams expect to contend in 2017?  How many of them have pitching to spare?

 

The Twins were never going to "hoodwink" some team's GM into believing that Dozier was going to all of a sudden be a perennial 40 HR guy.  Most GMs aren't that gullible.The league sees him as a 20-25 HR, 15-20 SB, .250 hitter that plays very good defense, period.

 

I'll ask again, isn't he better than many 1B and DH types also? 

 

20+Hr and 20 SB and good defense? That's an all star level player......

[TheLeviathan]

 

I love Dozier as a player, but signing him to a 4-5 year 90-120 million extension is not a smart move for this club.

 

Yeah, a Dozier extension comes complete with a giant neon sign that says "Debacle Ahead".

 

No thanks.

[yarnivek1972]

I'll ask again, isn't he better than many 1B and DH types also?

 

20+Hr and 20 SB and good defense? That's an all star level player......

Sure about that? Dozier's WAR last year wasn't the best in the American League. Nor was it second. That's my point. There are a LOT of great offensive second basemen in the league right now. The Twins are trying to trade a commodity for which there is little demand.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Sure about that? Dozier's WAR last year wasn't the best in the American League. Nor was it second. That's my point. There are a LOT of great offensive second basemen in the league right now. The Twins are trying to trade a commodity for which there is little demand.

 

There being a lot of great 2B does not make his season last year not AS in the context of the game. 

[drjim]

 

I think most of us really like having Brian Dozier on the roster.

 

I think some of us realize they don't have any SP they can rely on past next year, none. I do believe Berrios will be reliable, but I don't know it.

 

I think some of us think that between Polacno, Gordon and Vielma, they have the MI covered for several years, even w/o Dozier. Therefore, some of us think Dozier should be traded. 

 

If they can't get value for Dozier, then, imo, you have to consider trading one of the others. But, minor league for minor league trades pretty much NEVER happen. So, that leaves Polanco.....

 

I won't speak for others, but I'm not confident the trio mentioned has the middle infield covered for several years.

[drjim]

 

Ben Revere netted us a high upside starting pitcher at the time (May)

Players like polanco net good players all the time, he could definitely bring back a top 50-75prospect or two.

 

I think this is about right. Might also be able to swing a high upside starter who has struggled a little out of the gate, depending on specific team and need.

[yarnivek1972]

Ben Revere netted us a high upside starting pitcher at the time (May)

 

Players like polanco net good players all the time, he could definitely bring back a top 50-75prospect or two.

Revere had over 1000 PA when he was traded. Polanco has 360. Try again.

[Doomtints]

I am enjoying reading this thread a lot more than the threads about how there was no way he could ever play SS, in spite of him having done so for years.  

 

When is Polanco bobblehead day? I want one.

[Doomtints]

 

Ben Revere netted us a high upside starting pitcher at the time (May)

Players like polanco net good players all the time, he could definitely bring back a top 50-75prospect or two.

 

Why trade down? Polanco is going to be a better player than 95% of 50-75 ranked prospects.

 

While we're at it, let's trade Dozier for a pair of the #1 ranked sneakers. Nothing's better than #1, right?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Why trade down? Polanco is going to be a better player than 95% of 50-75 ranked prospects.

 

While we're at it, let's trade Dozier for a pair of the #1 ranked sneakers. Nothing's better than #1, right?

 

Because they have no pitching. None past 2018. Not one. And, you might believe Gordon or Vielma + a SP or two is more valuable.

[yarnivek1972]

Because they have no pitching. None past 2018. Not one. And, you might believe Gordon or Vielma + a SP or two is more valuable.

I think you are greatly overestimating what Polanco would net in return first of all. No way he nets a MLB ready starter. He rates a project like Lachlan Wells, at BEST. Second, Vielma is probably never going to be a starter at the MLB level. His ceiling is more likely utility infielder. Gordon probably will make it as a starter someday. But he's far from certain. Offensively and defensively. He profiles similar to Polanco in that he does a lot of things well, but there is nothing he excels at. Polanco is more advanced though. By the time he was Gordon's current age, he already had a cup of coffee at the MLB level.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think you are greatly overestimating what Polanco would net in return first of all. No way he nets a MLB ready starter. He rates a project like Lachlan Wells, at BEST. Second, Vielma is probably never going to be a starter at the MLB level. His ceiling is more likely utility infielder. Gordon probably will make it as a starter someday. But he's far from certain. Offensively and defensively. He profiles similar to Polanco in that he does a lot of things well, but there is nothing he excels at. Polanco is more advanced though. By the time he was Gordon's current age, he already had a cup of coffee at the MLB level.

 

How do you propose they go from zero SP under contract for 2019, to five, if not thru trades?

 

I have no idea what Polanco would net, people asked why others would be willing to trade him. I answered. i also never said MBL ready this year, or even next year....If you won't trade Dozier or ESan, and you can't trade any other player, is the plan FA?

[gunnarthor]

If Polanco finishes the year with a 108 OPS+, more walks than strike outs, solid defense at short, 5 WAR and another 5 years of team control, his trade value will be much, much higher than today.  But right now, I think the Twins should wait to see where things are.  I do think they'll trade Santiago and probably Santana.  Berrios should be up soon.  I'd rather the Twins try and trade Dozier again though and let Polanco grow with the rest of this young nucleus.  

[Mike Sixel]

 

If Polanco finishes the year with a 108 OPS+, more walks than strike outs, solid defense at short, 5 WAR and another 5 years of team control, his trade value will be much, much higher than today.  But right now, I think the Twins should wait to see where things are.  I do think they'll trade Santiago and probably Santana.  Berrios should be up soon.  I'd rather the Twins try and trade Dozier again though and let Polanco grow with the rest of this young nucleus.  

 

Oh, I agree for sure. but people keep saying there was NO MARKET for Dozier, and I fail to see how planning for one to materialize is a good plan (vs hope). I'd much rather Polanco was here the next 5 years, but at some point, they need to find pitching. And I have serious doubts they'll pay top dollar for it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

If anyone believes in Polanco, his value will be much higher after the season, probably even higher the offseason after that.

 

Guys like that only gain value as they perform at the MLB level. Service time isn't really a consideration until it's less than four seasons or so.

 

We talk about trading high all the time. Trading Polanco right now is not trading high, IMO. Same goes for Kepler. I think they both get better.