2017: Guess the date when Mauer surpasses Bumgarner in 2017 HRs

[spinowner]

 

Comparison of pitches that were argued can be seen here. 

Very interesting comparison and I'm glad you posted it because it shows how different the two at-bats were.

As drjim pointed out, the pitch Mauer took for a strike on Monday was on a 1-0 count. There's an adage in baseball that a batter should generally take the first strike if the game is close unless it's relatively easy to hit. Don't swing at a pitcher's pitch in that situation until there are two strikes.

The pitch he swung at and hit today was on a 1-2 count. Even someone with only a basic understanding of the game knows why he swung in that situation. Fortunately he made good contact on a pitcher's pitch.

[Taildragger8791]

I don't criticize Mauer for that plate appearance at all. If you get 4 balls and a marginal strike from a pitcher who's struggling to throw strikes in a bases loaded situation then a hitter should take that walk every time. We'd be lauding any other hitter for their patience there.

 

But, more broadly speaking, I get the frustration. You can't deny that over the course of time Mauer has generally deferred the responsibility for driving in runs to the guys behind him. He wants the liner to left field or a walk, and occasionally will capitalize on the mistake pitch in his wheelhouse. After that he just tries not to strike out.

 

In other words, Mauer is the baseball version of a checkdown QB or non-scoring PG. He won't lose you a game with turnovers and 3-and-outs or missed shots, but he often isn't going to change a game either. Even though the team (lineup) is consistently arranged for him to do so.

[70charger]

 

But when the same posters make the same complaints about the same players, it's tiresome. We get it. You don't like Mauer much and dislike his plate approach. We know. How do we know? You've already told us 100 times.

 

So maybe it's time to go ahead and start a thread about literally anyone else in the Twins organization and get the hell off Mauer's back for a minute.

 

So much this.

[DrNeau]

July 5th, 2017.

[ewen21]

You can't deny that over the course of time Mauer has generally deferred the responsibility for driving in runs to the guys behind him. He wants the liner to left field or a walk, and occasionally will capitalize on the mistake pitch in his wheelhouse. After that he just tries not to strime out

 

This is basically the statement being made here. To change the discussion to, "you complained about a guy walking" (in single at bat) is not fair at all. It steers the discussion away from actually discussing an issue the Twins have.

 

If Joe Mauer is going to hit in a spot where runners are on base and a run is needed then he is doing his team a disservice by going up there in take mode. He's basically letting opposition off the hook. He needs to go up there looking for something to DRIVE. He doesn't do that. In fact, there doesn't seem to be a pitch anywhere in the zone that Joe really turns on. He rarely ever turns on a ball and hits it hard and for distance. When has he smoked a line drive double into the right field corner? Like never. Does he ever hit a wall banger into the RF gap? Shouldn't we want him to TRY to pick up his team with his bat when runners are on base? We've seen it time and time again. For those who can't trust their eyes the numbers at fan graphs show he takes more strikes than anyone and there isn't any good in that. It makes him a more defensive hitter. It's tactically irresponsible and this is why I say he is not a good situational hitter.

 

His approach basically assures us that won't happen and it is an approach where he defers the responsibility to drive in runs. Is it too harsh to say this here? If so I have to ask WHY?

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

If Joe Mauer is going to hit in a spot where runners are on base and a run is needed then he is doing his team a disservice by going up there in take mode. He's basically letting opposition off the hook. He needs to go up there looking for something to DRIVE. He doesn't do that. In fact, there doesn't seem to be a pitch anywhere in the zone that Joe really turns on. He rarely ever turns on a ball and hits it hard and for distance. When has he smoked a line drive double into the right field corner? Like never. Does he ever hit a wall banger into the RF gap? Shouldn't we want him to TRY to pick up his team with his bat when runners are on base? We've seen it time and time again. For those who can't trust their eyes the numbers at fan graphs show he takes more strikes than anyone and there isn't any good in that. It makes him a more defensive hitter. It's tactically irresponsible and this is why I say he is not a good situational hitter.

His approach basically assures us that won't happen and it is an approach where he defers the responsibility to drive in runs. Is it too harsh to say this here? If so I have to ask WHY?

 

I see the logic here, but I think there's a few assumptions being made.

 

For one, you assume that there's a pitch he can drive. I don't know enough about what Mauer can hit well and cannot hit well to comment on that part with any authority, but I do know the walk he took in game 1 was on 5 pitches, which tells me a lot about how drivable said pitches were. Remember that it is the pitcher that essentially determines whether or not Mauer will get a pitch that he can drive, not Mauer. If the pitcher is wild, by all means, take the walk. If the pitcher is timid and won't throw something good, by all means take the walk (and I'd argue, the rest of the Twins can learn from that)... Percentages say that when Mauer starts swinging a bit more, he may drive a few more pitches, but his OBP will drop, and probably his BA too as he's going to induce more weak contact as well.  The exact rate, I'm not certain, but looking at Mauer's numbers to the rest of the league, I'd say his selectivity has generally been beneficial to him, and by proxy, to us.

 

Now as the 4th spot, this one is warming up on me. Yes, he's not that prototypical hitter, but he's now sitting in the heart of the order with some decent hitters in front and behind him.  It seems as though the thought here is to go for the big inning so to speak, and putting him there increases the odds. His slash line with runners on is rather impressive and he's further reducing that margin of error.  If anything, he's forcing pitchers to throw more strikes to Sano, which I think is a good thing.... now if only Buxton could get going.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

This is basically the statement being made here. To change the discussion to, "you complained about a guy walking" (in single at bat) is not fair at all. It steers the discussion away from actually discussing an issue the Twins have.

It's very fair. Listen, if DrNeau doesn't want to be rebutted over his opinion on a single plate appearance that resulted in a walk, he shouldn't write a throwaway post that talked exclusively about that single plate appearance.

 

Action, reaction. If you don't like the reaction, evaluate the action that caused it.

 

We've been around the Mauer conversation several dozen times in this forum. There are literally thousands of posts on the subject. DrNeau chooses to go to the Mauer well time and time again, stating the same opinions.

 

We get it.

 

Imagine if I hated Danny Santana with a fiery passion, so much that I created threads multiple times a season and spent 40% of my time on this forum complaining about Danny Santana. Would you get tired of reading that tripe? Yeah, of course you would because it's repetitive and boring.

 

There are 24 other people on this roster. Give it a rest with the Mauer hate.

[Steve Penz]

I am 4 pages of comments behind so surely this is a repeat comment by now.  It is really disappointing when people start crying about Mauer and homeruns, the batting order and saying things like, "stubborn Twins still have a 42-hr guy leading off."  

 

Gardy and Ryan did their conventional things for years.  Now we have young, SABR-forward folks in charge who are slowly shaking things up and yet we get this whining.

 

They lost 103 games last year.  Falvey- Go nuts!  I love it.  

 

The idea behind Mauer as a cleanup hitter is the have a guy on base 35%+ percent of the time when Sano comes to the plate.   And, this should give Mauer protection so he can hit.  So far Mauer's OBP is .375.  

 

It is only 2 games but give it a chance.  

 

Or, keep complaining about Mauer and his lack of homers.  While your add it, make a case for why Colon deserved the Cy Young over Santana because he had more wins.  Come on.  

[Mike Sixel]

 

It's very fair. Listen, if DrNeau doesn't want to be rebutted over his opinion on a single plate appearance that resulted in a walk, he shouldn't write a throwaway post that talked exclusively about that single plate appearance.

 

Action, reaction. If you don't like the reaction, evaluate the action that caused it.

 

We've been around the Mauer conversation several dozen times in this forum. There are literally thousands of posts on the subject. DrNeau chooses to go to the Mauer well time and time again, stating the same opinions.

 

We get it.

 

Imagine if I hated Danny Santana with a fiery passion, so much that I created threads multiple times a season and spent 40% of my time on this forum complaining about Danny Santana. Would you get tired of reading that tripe? Yeah, of course you would because it's repetitive and boring.

 

There are 24 other people on this roster. Give it a rest with the Mauer hate.

 

I'll say what I always say, take or leave DrNeau, but there are new people on the site you own/run every day. Some of them have not participated in a Mauer discussion. Also, if you don't want to be in a Mauer discussion, don't come to the thread. There are clearly some people having a discussion now....

[Doomtints]

Plenty of position players are valuable without hitting home runs. Forget about Joe's salary, that's not our problem. In any case, he was not given his salary based on his ability to hit home runs. Heck, only half of his contract was because he was a good catcher. The other half was a mix of PR to address the criticism of the Twins never paying anybody mixed with the fact that he was the home town golden boy.

 

 

[Taildragger8791]

 

Plenty of position players are valuable without hitting home runs. Forget about Joe's salary, that's not our problem. In any case, he was not given his salary based on his ability to hit home runs. Heck, only half of his contract was because he was a good catcher. The other half was a mix of PR to address the criticism of the Twins never paying anybody mixed with the fact that he was the home town golden boy.

I don't think anyone is griping about the lack of homeruns specifically. The frustration is with the lack of aggression he shows in attacking pitchers. You don't have to hit homeruns to attack a pitcher. But you do have to have a mindset that you're looking to do more than draw a walk or slap an opposite field liner somewhere.

 

And nobody in this thread is talking about money. It seems like that comes up more often as a strawman argument than it does as an actual criticism. The only time I typically see it brought up anymore is when people suspect Mauer is getting more playing time and premier lineup spots than his performance sometimes dictates he should.

[nicksaviking]

 

I'd like to see Mauer mix in an early-count aggressive swing once in a while.

 

And if that had been the title of your thread you would have gotten nearly 100% positive feedback.

 

Even Delmon Young would likely get defended against passive aggressive and unwarrented snark and ridicule. Mauer is anything but a sacred cow on this site.

[Doomtints]

 

I don't think anyone is griping about the lack of homeruns specifically. The frustration is with the lack of aggression he shows in attacking pitchers. You don't have to hit homeruns to attack a pitcher. But you do have to have a mindset that you're looking to do more than draw a walk or slap an opposite field liner somewhere.

 

And nobody in this thread is talking about money. It seems like that comes up more often as a strawman argument than it does as an actual criticism. The only time I typically see it brought up anymore is when people suspect Mauer is getting more playing time and premier lineup spots than his performance sometimes dictates he should.

 

I don't think he was extended for his aggression either. He never has been aggressive.

 

He was extended because he is a hometown hero. This is still the case.

[Mike Sixel]

I think people forget how great he was. He wasn't extended out of some PR move, he was close to the best player in baseball....

[spinowner]

 

I think people forget how great he was. He wasn't extended out of some PR move, he was close to the best player in baseball....

The catcher is by far the most important non-pitcher on the field. There are many catchers who can't hit. There are some hitters who can catch, but there are few catchers who can hit, and in the entire history of the game there have been hardly any very good catchers who are very good hitters. Not only was Mauer probably the best player in baseball in 2009, but his 2009 season was probably one of the top 25 or so most valuable seasons in the history of the game.

[h2oface]

Love how he came up to bat yesterday with the bases loaded in the 7th inning and didn't even swing once during the entire at bat. What a cleanup hitter!

I get your ironic humor! Seriously, it is funny for the sake of funny. No problem at all. And Buxton..... he sure is having fun swinging the bat at least. I am glad he has decided to have more fun and not take the expectations so seriously.

[Linus]

I think people forget how great he was. He wasn't extended out of some PR move, he was close to the best player in baseball....

This. 3 time batting champ MVP and gold glove. This is why he was extended.