Park

[alarp33]

 

Park had a really good ST last year too. None of this counts.

 

"really good"

 

.259 .279 .466

[alarp33]

Obviously Spring Training stats mean practically nothing, but I for one hope they do give Park a long look.  It seems a lot of people on this board have been ready to anoint Vargas as some sort of given in the lineup... based on a couple of mini hot streaks, one back in 2014 and one last year (that each lasted less than a month if memory serves me correctly).   

[Squirrel]

 

Obviously Spring Training stats mean practically nothing, but I for one hope they do give Park a long look.  It seems a lot of people on this board have been ready to anoint Vargas as some sort of given in the lineup... based on a couple of mini hot streaks, one back in 2014 and one last year (that each lasted less than a month if memory serves me correctly).   

It's not a matter of 'anointing' anything to Vargas, but once Park was removed from the 40-man, many thought then that meant it was Vargas' job to lose, not that he had the job guaranteed. And many also think they haven't given Vargas consistent playing time to really see how well he does or doesn't. As for my opinion on Vargas, I'm very in the middle ... neither 'anointing' nor discounting, but wanting to get a good look. Same with Park.

[alarp33]

 

It's not a matter of 'anointing' anything to Vargas, but once Park was removed from the 40-man, many thought then that meant it was Vargas' job to lose, not that he had the job guaranteed. And many also think they haven't given Vargas consistent playing time to really see how well he does or doesn't. As for my opinion on Vargas, I'm very in the middle ... neither 'anointing' nor discounting, but wanting to get a good look. Same with Park.

 

That's fair.  It is safe to assume Vargas has the upper hand due to Park being removed from 40man.  What I should have said is, I think there's a decent chance Vargas is not any good, so I hope Park is greatly improved coming off his wrist injury and 1st taste at the Majors.  

 

 

[Squirrel]

 

That's fair.  It is safe to assume Vargas has the upper hand due to Park being removed from 40man.  What I should have said is, I think there's a decent chance Vargas is not any good, so I hope Park is greatly improved coming off his wrist injury and 1st taste at the Majors.  

Yup. Still so many questions that need answering. And some 'research' before answering.

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

Obviously Spring Training stats mean practically nothing, but I for one hope they do give Park a long look.  It seems a lot of people on this board have been ready to anoint Vargas as some sort of given in the lineup... based on a couple of mini hot streaks, one back in 2014 and one last year (that each lasted less than a month if memory serves me correctly).   

 

After absolutely raking in July, Vargas started exactly none of the five games in August against LH starting pitchers. When they played the Braves and Vargas came up to bat against a LH relief pitcher (O'Flaherty) the Braves intentionally walked him.

 

Molitor set Vargas up to lose. I don't trust the guy.

[alarp33]

 

After absolutely raking in July, Vargas started exactly none of the five games in August against LH starting pitchers. When they played the Braves and Vargas came up to bat against a LH relief pitcher (O'Flaherty) the Braves intentionally walked him.

 

Molitor set Vargas up to lose. I don't trust the guy.

 

Small Sample size alert. 

 

Pre All Star break (6 games) - .471 / .609 / 1.294  26.1% BB  13% K  .455 BABIP

 

Post All Star Break through Aug 1 (he sat the next night).  .250/ .351 / .396  14% BB  31.6% K .367 BABIP

 

Did he really rake all of July?  

 

Post All Star Break through end of season;  .200 / .292 / .400  11.7% BB 35.1% K  .267 BABIP

 

That's not a guy I want to see getting 500+ Plate appearances this year

[ThejacKmp]

 

That said:  Vargas, Park, Grossman.   Pick 2.  

 

Not sure I believe this.

 

The Twins will carry 13 position players most likely. The starter at every position except DH is relatively clear (SS is perhaps a bit more up in the air but hard to see Polanco not at least starting the year there, god help us all). So that leaves four bench spots and DH. A backup C will be one of the bench spots (#1). Hard to see Escobar not making the team since he can back up short while Polanco covers 2B and 3B (#2). Grossman also seems like a lock as a 4th OF and bench #3 (maybe one of the other AAAA OF options will play his way onto the team but I can't see any of them that has a clear path - they seem more like injury insurance). One of Vargas/Park will likely start at DH.

 

So it's all about that 4th bench spot. With the 12 above, the Twins are a bit light on middle infielders (just Escobar) and a defensive outfielder - though there isn't a real defensive liability among the starters so maybe that gets de-emphasized? It'll be interesting to see if Escobar gets time in the OF this spring - he played 35 games there in 2015, poorly if I remember. That would be a sign that the Twins may be willing to think more IF options, be that middle or at first.

 

It'll likely come down to whether the Twins want to carry a big bat or another infield/outfield backup. So really, the loser of Park vs. Vargas will likely be up against Santana or Adrianza for the last spot. I think Santana has the edge due to positional versatility (he provides an extra option in middle infield and all three OFs which has it's use) but if Vargas and Park are both hot, the Twins could very easily justify keeping both.

 

Not sure it's a pick two.

[ThejacKmp]

 

That's fair.  It is safe to assume Vargas has the upper hand due to Park being removed from 40man.  What I should have said is, I think there's a decent chance Vargas is not any good, so I hope Park is greatly improved coming off his wrist injury and 1st taste at the Majors.  

 

 

Not sure I believe that at all. Park was removed because the FO smartly knew he was a guy who would get through waivers so why risk losing others? Not sure it's evidence that Vargas has an upper hand.

 

This is especially true since the end of spring training will likely open up any number of spots on the 40 man. Perkins may end up on the 60 day DL for instance. Guys like Adrianza, Haley, Boshers and O'Rourke may no longer be with the organization.

 

Let's just say that I haven't heard anything saying that Gimenez will have a harder time making the team because he isn't on the 40 man. I think it's unlikely that has an effect on Park's chances either. He can win this or lose this on his own.

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

Not sure I believe this.

 

The Twins will carry 13 position players most likely. The starter at every position except DH is relatively clear (SS is perhaps a bit more up in the air but hard to see Polanco not at least starting the year there, god help us all). So that leaves four bench spots and DH. A backup C will be one of the bench spots (#1). Hard to see Escobar not making the team since he can back up short while Polanco covers 2B and 3B (#2). Grossman also seems like a lock as a 4th OF and bench #3 (maybe one of the other AAAA OF options will play his way onto the team but I can't see any of them that has a clear path - they seem more like injury insurance). One of Vargas/Park will likely start at DH.

 

So it's all about that 4th bench spot. With the 12 above, the Twins are a bit light on middle infielders (just Escobar) and a defensive outfielder - though there isn't a real defensive liability among the starters so maybe that gets de-emphasized? It'll be interesting to see if Escobar gets time in the OF this spring - he played 35 games there in 2015, poorly if I remember. That would be a sign that the Twins may be willing to think more IF options, be that middle or at first.

 

It'll likely come down to whether the Twins want to carry a big bat or another infield/outfield backup. So really, the loser of Park vs. Vargas will likely be up against Santana or Adrianza for the last spot. I think Santana has the edge due to positional versatility (he provides an extra option in middle infield and all three OFs which has it's use) but if Vargas and Park are both hot, the Twins could very easily justify keeping both.

 

Not sure it's a pick two.

I think this is a good take.

I suspect Adrianza will have a position over Santana unless DanSan shows something to make the FO believe that the last two years were an aberration. Otherwise it's difficult for me to poke holes in this comment.

[ThejacKmp]

 

I think this is a good take.

I suspect Adrianza will have a position over Santana unless DanSan shows something to make the FO believe that the last two years were an aberration. Otherwise it's difficult for me to poke holes in this comment.

Yeah, Adrianza is clearly a better player if you're looking to have a strong defensive SS on the roster.

 

Santana's only hope (though I think it's a good one) is that he solves all of your issues as the 25th guy - 5th and defensive OF, backup IF, pinch runner. I won't be super upset if he's the 25th man but I'm not hoping for it.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Yeah, Adrianza is clearly a better player if you're looking to have a strong defensive SS on the roster.

 

Santana's only hope (though I think it's a good one) is that he solves all of your issues as the 25th guy - 5th and defensive OF, backup IF, pinch runner. I won't be super upset if he's the 25th man but I'm not hoping for it.

 

If Gimenez shows he can play the corner OF, I'd guess Santana is in real trouble.

[Ryan Atkins]

Its always interesting to see who gets a lot of playing time early in Spring. I think for guys like Park, Stubbs, and Shuck--they are going to see a lot playing time early on because I don't think any of those guys are necessarily expected to make the club, but they have probably all been promised a fair shot at it.

 

If they do well early and sustain it deeper into Spring, they will earn a spot if someone else (e.g, Vargas, Grossman) falters or gets hurt.

[LaBombo]

 

Small Sample size alert. 

 

 

Almost none of the entrees on the Twins menu are palatable for me at the moment. So at least for now we should encourage the handing out of as many tiny Costco sample lady cups of encouragement as possible.

 

I meant that the cups are tiny, not the Costco ladies.  Well, maybe some, now that I think about it.

[ashbury]

 I have no doubt that Park can hit a mid 90's FB. In fact I doubt anyone is on a MLB roster who cannot.

Ever watched Eduardo Escobar in batting practice? He goes all out for the fences on several pitches at a time. Fun.

[Linus]

Not sure I believe this.

 

The Twins will carry 13 position players most likely. The starter at every position except DH is relatively clear (SS is perhaps a bit more up in the air but hard to see Polanco not at least starting the year there, god help us all). So that leaves four bench spots and DH. A backup C will be one of the bench spots (#1). Hard to see Escobar not making the team since he can back up short while Polanco covers 2B and 3B (#2). Grossman also seems like a lock as a 4th OF and bench #3 (maybe one of the other AAAA OF options will play his way onto the team but I can't see any of them that has a clear path - they seem more like injury insurance). One of Vargas/Park will likely start at DH.

 

So it's all about that 4th bench spot. With the 12 above, the Twins are a bit light on middle infielders (just Escobar) and a defensive outfielder - though there isn't a real defensive liability among the starters so maybe that gets de-emphasized? It'll be interesting to see if Escobar gets time in the OF this spring - he played 35 games there in 2015, poorly if I remember. That would be a sign that the Twins may be willing to think more IF options, be that middle or at first.

 

It'll likely come down to whether the Twins want to carry a big bat or another infield/outfield backup. So really, the loser of Park vs. Vargas will likely be up against Santana or Adrianza for the last spot. I think Santana has the edge due to positional versatility (he provides an extra option in middle infield and all three OFs which has it's use) but if Vargas and Park are both hot, the Twins could very easily justify keeping both.

 

Not sure it's a pick two.

The twins have spent most of the last several years with 13 pitchers even though they strive for 12. This makes the bench even shorter.

[ThejacKmp]

 

The twins have spent most of the last several years with 13 pitchers even though they strive for 12. This makes the bench even shorter.

Yeah, thought about that. But I remember reading somewhere (can't find it now) that the new guys want a 12 man staff.

[ashbury]

Yeah, thought about that. But I remember reading somewhere (can't find it now) that the new guys want a 12 man staff.

Everyone GM baseball wants to run with a 12 man staff. And then, you get a sequence of poor starts, and your manager is begging for some mercy for his overworked bullpen, and doesn't see a AAA shuttle as the answer....

[Linus]

Everyone GM baseball wants to run with a 12 man staff. And then, you get a sequence of poor starts, and your manager is begging for some mercy for his overworked bullpen, and doesn't see a AAA shuttle as the answer....

Yep that's how it works....

[Badsmerf]

Whoa! I joined the thread late, but don't purge the Hughes hates. If Alexi Castillo I'd the starting 2b.... you have plenty of room to give Hughes abs. Dude was never given a read chance. Might not have done much... but Nishioka was given more than him, and he didn't prove ****.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Everyone GM baseball wants to run with a 12 man staff. And then, you get a sequence of poor starts, and your manager is begging for some mercy for his overworked bullpen, and doesn't see a AAA shuttle as the answer....

Likely true at some point. I do think they will start the season with a 12 man staff (if for no other reason than to show Molitor who is boss). The point of the discussion on this thread is what the opening day 25 man will be so I think it's okay to talk about there being four bench spots to begin the year. Park or Vargas (if they both made the team) would likely be the position player sent down in that moment -- though of course Danny Santana is always on the brink.

 

But yeah, I'd be very surprised if the twins carried a 13 man staff to begin the season.

[LaBombo]

With a full time DH and backup catcher, both of your two (yikes) bench players on a 13 pitcher roster almost have to be able to play just about anywhere unless some of the starting position players can comfortably move around. 

 

So DanSan's odds of making the team actually seem higher to me if they go with 13 pitchers, due to the short bench necessitating his ability to exasperate fans at so many different positions on the field.

 

And for a team that figures to lose 90+ games, the only real downside of a 12 man staff is greater chance that they'll end up risking the loss of an arm or two due to overuse.  As harsh as it sounds, from a purely Darwinian standpoint the Twins staff will likely feature several arms that they won't miss if there's an injury.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Not sure I believe this.

 

The Twins will carry 13 position players most likely. The starter at every position except DH is relatively clear (SS is perhaps a bit more up in the air but hard to see Polanco not at least starting the year there, god help us all). So that leaves four bench spots and DH. A backup C will be one of the bench spots (#1). Hard to see Escobar not making the team since he can back up short while Polanco covers 2B and 3B (#2). Grossman also seems like a lock as a 4th OF and bench #3 (maybe one of the other AAAA OF options will play his way onto the team but I can't see any of them that has a clear path - they seem more like injury insurance). One of Vargas/Park will likely start at DH.

 

So it's all about that 4th bench spot. With the 12 above, the Twins are a bit light on middle infielders (just Escobar) and a defensive outfielder - though there isn't a real defensive liability among the starters so maybe that gets de-emphasized? It'll be interesting to see if Escobar gets time in the OF this spring - he played 35 games there in 2015, poorly if I remember. That would be a sign that the Twins may be willing to think more IF options, be that middle or at first.

 

It'll likely come down to whether the Twins want to carry a big bat or another infield/outfield backup. So really, the loser of Park vs. Vargas will likely be up against Santana or Adrianza for the last spot. I think Santana has the edge due to positional versatility (he provides an extra option in middle infield and all three OFs which has it's use) but if Vargas and Park are both hot, the Twins could very easily justify keeping both.

 

Not sure it's a pick two.

they'll start with 13 position players, but there will be injuries and short starts necessitating an extra reliever once the schedule pace picks up in May.

 

With the emphasis on defense, I think Adrianza is the 25th man on the roster, and Vargas, Mauer and Grossman platoon the DH and First base positions.

[ThejacKmp]

 

they'll start with 13 position players, but there will be injuries and short starts necessitating an extra reliever once the schedule pace picks up in May.

With the emphasis on defense, I think Adrianza is the 25th man on the roster, and Vargas, Mauer and Grossman platoon the DH and First base positions.

If they're going to go to 12 position players at some point anyway, I guess it doesn't matter if it's Park or Adrianza or Dan San . . . 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

If they're going to go to 12 position players at some point anyway, I guess it doesn't matter if it's Park or Adrianza or Dan San . . .

depends on how they get to 12. If it's trading Dozier for prospects, prolly don't want Park or DanSan who can't field SS well enough to start.

[jorgenswest]

If they're going to go to 12 position players at some point anyway, I guess it doesn't matter if it's Park or Adrianza or Dan San . . .

 

I tend to agree.

 

Does it matter that Park has is the one with options? They would have to DFA the either of the other 2 to go to 12 pitchers. They would have to DFA them at the start of the season but that comes at a time when all teams feel the roster crunch.

 

I hope the 25th man is not currently on the roster. The Twins will have the top claim at a time when all teams are making difficult roster decisions. They had an early claim in 2014 when JD Martinez was waived towards the end of spring training. They opted to roster Kubel and Bartlett instead.

[ThejacKmp]

 

depends on how they get to 12. If it's trading Dozier for prospects, prolly don't want Park or DanSan who can't field SS well enough to start.

 

Dozier trade won't happen til early June at the earliest - that's two whole months. I think it does matter who they make the 25th man if that's how it goes to 12 . . .

[GP830]

 

I tend to agree.

Does it matter that Park has is the one with options? They would have to DFA the either of the other 2 to go to 12 pitchers. They would have to DFA them at the start of the season but that comes at a time when all teams feel the roster crunch.

I hope the 25th man is not currently on the roster. The Twins will have the top claim at a time when all teams are making difficult roster decisions. They had an early claim in 2014 when JD Martinez was waived towards the end of spring training. They opted to roster Kubel and Bartlett instead.

Quoted in separate thread! "Pre-Season Waiver Claims"