Heyman: After Missing Out On Napoli, Twins Looking At Other Free Agents

[GP830]

Also, maybe Justin was always Joe's veteran mentor and that's why Joe hasn't been the same. SIGN BACK JOE'S MENTOR!

[gocgo]

 

I don't know... Alvarez has a career .438/.500/.500 line at Target Field in 18 PA!

LOL...against twins pitching...gotta factor that in.

[gunnarthor]

I'm not sure how much of it is "mentoring", i.e. the teaching of young guys how the majors work, as opposed to filling a need and having a calming presence in the locker room.  I think a plan of platooning Vargas with (for example) Alvarez isn't horrible.  Vargas can't hit righties but might kill lefties and Alvarez can still crush RH pitching (.848 OPS against RH pitching last year, although he played in Camden). 

 

The Twins are pretty set at most positions but not really at DH.  Park is AAA bound, Palka needs at least more time there.  The two main DH options right now are Vargas and Grossman. For some reason, many of us seem to think Grossman should be DFA'd but want Vargas to be the fulltime DH, despite Grossman being the better player. So I don't think we should overly worry if the FO gets someone like Alvarez to make DH stronger.

[Guest]

Everyone realizes Mourneau had a lower ISO and BB rate than Vargas last year and that Vargas had more fWAR? And that Vargas is entering his prime and Mourneau is way past his?

[Shaitan]

 

Everyone realizes Mourneau had a lower ISO and BB rate than Vargas last year and that Vargas had more fWAR? And that Vargas is entering his prime and Mourneau is way past his?

I'm not arguing they should sign Morneau, but he also didn't play any Spring Training and came into the middle of the season with very little live baseball in preparation last year. It's possible he could still be better than his 2016 stats. But, meh.

 

I'm fine with signing a veteran to be a PH and start once every 10 days, but I question if a left-handed 1B is what they need for that. I'd rather see somebody with a little more flexibility. 

[Guest]

I'm not arguing they should sign Morneau, but he also didn't play any Spring Training and came into the middle of the season with very little live baseball in preparation last year. It's possible he could still be better than his 2016 stats. But, meh.

 

I'm fine with signing a veteran to be a PH and start once every 10 days, but I question if a left-handed 1B is what they need for that. I'd rather see somebody with a little more flexibility.

 

Ok, but in 2014, his last full season, when he led the NL in BA while playing in Coors, his ISO was about .100' less than Vargas' in 2016. The chances of Vargas helping the 2018 Twins are much higher than Mourneau's chances. It's fantasy hero sports camp baseball to pick Mourneau now.

[dgwills]

These would be terrible signings. Offense is not the big problem for this team. Let the young guys get their at bats and work on improving pitching and defense.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Catcher: Castro (veteran) and either a veteran or not as backup.....covered.

1B: Mauer .... probably doesn't need a mentor

2B: Dozier.....probably doesn't need a menotr

SS: ???....even if it is Polanco or the new guy, Escobar should be able to mentor that person...covered

3B: Sano....might need a mentor

LF: Rosario...in his third fullish season, does he still need a mentor? How long do MLB players need them...not covered, I guess.

CF: Buxton....not covered

RF: Kepler....not covered

DH: sounds like a veteran is coming in....covered

 

So, they have all of 4, maybe 5 guys who forgot everything Torii taught them, who need mentors. But they have Mauer, Dozier, Castro, Escobar. I guess if you think those four can't handle the work, along with the coaches and any veteran pitchers, well, I guess you bring in another veteran. Hopefully whatever he says sticks for more than 1 year. Hopefully at some point, they don't need mentoring during their career anymore.

 

I'm not arguing that leadership does not matter, please don't throw that straw man at me. I'm asking why the lessons Torii "taught" didn't stick, and why they need a veteran, why do you need MORE veterans than young players?

well... Torii is still in the organization.

[diehardtwinsfan]

you also have to consider that it is very possible that guys like Sano and Polanco really don't have relationships with guys like Mauer and Dozier. That may be true, it may not, but one cannot assume that because we have vets in the clubhouse, they are guys that these guys relate to.

[Mike Sixel]

you also have to consider that it is very possible that guys like Sano and Polanco really don't have relationships with guys like Mauer and Dozier. That may be true, it may not, but one cannot assume that because we have vets in the clubhouse, they are guys that these guys relate to.

And a random veteran helps how, if that is the problem?

[USAFChief]

And a random veteran helps how, if that is the problem?

Presumably, if the front office is targeting specific qualities, it wouldn't be a random veteran.

[drjim]

Presumably, if the front office is targeting specific qualities, it wouldn't be a random veteran.

Seems they are targeting the opposite of a random veteran.

[Riverbrian]

When I read between the lines... this is what I assume:

 

I don't think vet presence means mentoring in this case. I think vet presence means less mistakes made. I think vet presence means someone doesn't trust young players and is more comfortable with a player who has been through some situations no matter the talent level.

 

If I'm right... we may have a mismatch somewhere in consideration of the current state of the organization.

 

Of course... I could also be wrong and I want to repeat that it takes reading between the lines to get to what I just stated.

[drjim]

When I read between the lines... this is what I assume:

 

I don't think vet presence means mentoring in this case. I think vet presence means less mistakes made. I think vet presence means someone doesn't trust young players and is more comfortable with a player who has been through some situations no matter the talent level.

 

If I'm right... we may have a mismatch somewhere in consideration of the current state of the organization.

 

Of course... I could also be wrong and I want to repeat that it takes reading between the lines to get to what I just stated.

Maybe, but it is telling that they aren't looking for a veteran OF. There are certainly young guys they want to get reps.

 

But I do agree with your first point. The purpose of vets is not just a transactional imparting of knowledge the will set up the young players going forward once the vets are gone.

[Mr. Brooks]

Maybe, but it is telling that they aren't looking for a veteran OF. There are certainly young guys they want to get reps.

 

But I do agree with your first point. The purpose of vets is not just a transactional imparting of knowledge the will set up the young players going forward once the vets are gone.

If the vets don't leave a lasting impression on the kids after they are gone, then the purpose of signing them is...?

The FO thinks we can compete, and are just a couple of minor vets away?

[drjim]

If the vets don't leave a lasting impression on the kids after they are gone, then the purpose of signing them is...?

The FO thinks we can compete, and are just a couple of minor vets away?

This year. Winning games. Starting to flip the last 6 years. Bridging the gap until the kids are vets.

 

I don't think the FO thinks they are realistically going to compete this year, but I imagine they absolutely want to start winning more games and building towards a near future of competing. The young kids who are going to make or break the competitive seasons in the near future are here, time to put them in the best position to succeed.

[ken]

If the vets don't leave a lasting impression on the kids after they are gone, then the purpose of signing them is...?

You sign vet's like Napoli and Hunter for leadership. We had 2 front offices seem to think this is very important to the club and people who are outside the organization argue it's not important. Seems more reasonable to believe the people actually involved with the team.

[Guest]

When I read between the lines... this is what I assume:

I don't think vet presence means mentoring in this case. I think vet presence means less mistakes made. I think vet presence means someone doesn't trust young players and is more comfortable with a player who has been through some situations no matter the talent level.

If I'm right... we may have a mismatch somewhere in consideration of the current state of the organization.

Of course... I could also be wrong and I want to repeat that it takes reading between the lines to get to what I just stated.

Could be. It could also be that management sees AA and AAA position players who can help in the next year or two as a small and low-impact group, so they're thinking that the Twins will need a couple more years of "rent-a-replacement-level-veteran".

[HitInAPinch]

Hmmm, didn't the Twins FO just bring back Cuddyer, Hunter and Hawkins to do exactly this?

 

Personally, at this stage of the team's non-pitching development, I'm against signing any veteran DH-type.  I want to see a more athletic team [at least Sano has been working on that] and not older and slower and taking away AB's and roster spots, etc.

[jorgenswest]

I hope the Twins management doesn't subscribe to the belief that Vargas can't hit right handed pitching or even that he is better against left handed pitching. On this site, it seems to have become a fact perhaps based on major league slash stats in a short career. He also has had a better OPS against right handed pitching in each minor league season from 2012-2016 in a much larger sample. There might be enough sample to look at strike out rate and walk rate over his major league career, but those are not far enough apart to draw a conclusion.

 

It could be that Vargas can't hit right handed pitching well enough to be a DH. If true, I suspect that his ability to hit left handed pitching will be similarly inadequate.