Last Man Standing: ABW

[GMinTraining]

Certain topics are frowned upon and mostly because they make people uncomfortable to talk about such things.  That being said:  I have watched Minnesota trot the following people up to the MLB roster at some point in this 2016 season.  Some have started the season in Minnesota and were demoted and some were promoted from AAA Rochester and some were signed as free agents during the season:

Rochester to the Twins

Grossman

Kepler*

Centeno

Schafer

Mastroianni

Vargas*

Polanco*

O'Rourke

Graham

Meyer*

Wimmers

Boshers

Light

Dean

Albers

Kintzler*

Chargois*

Mejia

Rogers*

Berrios

Berresford

 

Twins to Rochester and Back to the Twins

Buxton*

Duffey*

Murphy*

Rosario*

Park*

Ramirez (only one who started with Twins and didn't make it back)

* = Originated on 40 man roster out of spring training

 

Of the 27 people who moved up or either down from the Minnesota Twins, only 11 originated on the 40 man roster at the start of the season.  That makes 16 people who were added not only to the 40 man roster this year, but at some point this season they were added to the 25 man roster (Berresford excluded).  

 

ABW II is the only member of the 40 man roster to not get promoted this season who was at the AAA level.  He improved his defense to the point where his manager Mike Quade publicly praised him on several occasions.  He missed out on the HR title (2nd) for the first time in his minor league career and missed out on the RBI title (3rd) for only the first time in his full season career.  With all the promotions that occurred on his AAA team this season, he missed out on the playoffs for only the first time in his minor league career.  

 

People often make issue of his strikeout legacy, but this will also be the first year he has led the league in strikeouts and DID NOT WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP.  He has won a championship in each of those seasons and had a chance this season, had the Twins not taken Buxton away from their playoff push (in Rochester) with 4 games remaining in season.  All that said:  He must be broken up not getting that call.  The Twins felt that much of him that they promoted 27 dudes during the season and did not feel the need to throw him a bone for his hard work and production.  It's obvious the brother doesn't stand a chance in Minnesota and I hope they let him move on to another franchise that appreciates him more (whether he has a long MLB career or not).  Let's give that MLB money to the likes of Mastrionni or Schafer or any of the other newly signed 2016 Twins.  No excuse is acceptable in my eyes.    ABW II is always the "Last Man Standing" when it comes to promotions (2012 - 2016).  Time to move on.  It doesn't speak well of the organization on so many levels.

 

FYI - Walker won the Rochester Team MVP Award for 2016 - Go figure...............

[mnfireman]

Where do you play him? 1B, DH, and RF/LF are full.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

Yeah, that what I took from it. 

 

Do we need a 5th thread on how minor league homers don't equate to major league success?  DO we have to rehash again how there's no room for him to get AB's unless you are going to sit another young player who the Twins obviously view as a better prospect?  Do we again need to discuss how Palko is viewed as a better prospect?

No, you do not need to discuss any of those things. The OP came at it from the angle that just about every player who was eligible to be called up to the Twins was called up to the Twins, except for Walker. So why not? I have the same question about that, actually.

[jimmer]

In AAA, he struck out almost 40% of the time, hit below .250 and got on base less than 31% of the time.  It's not all about HR and RBI and when people complain about how someone wasn't brought up, they always seem to point to what a player can do and completely avoid what he can't do.  

 

BTW, another thing he can't do is win championships by himself.  Teams win championships, individual players don't.  And being part of a championship team doesn't negate the boatload of strikeouts.

 

I'm not against him getting a cop of coffee in the bigs, but he has glaring issues with his game and acting as if it is some kind of slight he hasn't been promoted seems odd in this instance.

[old nurse]

Well, he can't be something he is not, so post 3 was focusing on what Walker was not.

[Rosterman]

Yes, he is young and still raw (but any younger or raw than Buxton or Sano). He slams the ball (any less than Vargas). Are there at bats for him in the majors (he could've come off the bench and pinch hit in the past few games, stepping aside for a pinch runner and a defensive replacement).

 

Is he in the Minnesota Twins plans for the future? This will be up to the new general manager and such. But right now, the Twins have two guys pretty much the same at Rochester. And the other one also ahs to be 40-man protected this winter.

 

So, if even before the management change, you weren't all that high on the guy, why did you not move him then? Or even if not that high for him in the future of the organization (where there is a logjam at OF/1B/DH with the likes of Palka, Sano, Park, Vargas) you could still bring him up to showcase a bit. He might strikeout in all seven at bats over the final 25 games. He might not.

 

He IS someone you have to make a decision on as 40-man spots become tight. Already the Twins are on the bubble with some folks like Duffey, Wimmers, not to mention guys still two years away from getting a major league look like Landa, and Rosario.

 

Is it money? Man, they want to take a long hard look at Schafer as the 4th outfielder? I would take a longer and harder look at Granite and put him on the 25-m,an next year as a defensive replacement pinch runner type at this point since you have to add him to the 40 man.

 

But, yes, the only slam against a player that would've been bigger was if they had left Vargas down on the farm. They can argue the Mejia had his innings in and got a taste with the club. But can't you do the same with Walker of whom you are asking to return to Rochester for another season and to repeat his efforts, maybe cutting down on k's a bit.

 

I'm glad Beresford was given a 40-man reward. I would've liked to see Wheeler get a couple of major league starts on par with AAA buddies Dean and Albers, since he was better than both.

 

The Twins season is a lost cause. You can't even expect them to be spoilers as they play amongst the central division teams. So it is all about guys potentially padding stats, taking time off, showing what they can do, fighting for a job with the Twins in the future. That is the key...FIGHTING FOR A JOB WITH THE TWINS in the Future. If the player clearly has no chance to be a 25-man or 40-man Twin in 2017...don't play those guys.

 

Man, we added quite a few to the 25-man roster this year (I think we are at 49 guys who played on the team, tying a record). 

 

What do they lose bringing up just one more guy! Who is already on the 40-man! Who is considered a Twins Prospect! Who played the entire year at AAA and showed his strengths! If you don't like what he did, if there is really no room in the inn for him, then hopefully he can get a shot elsewhere.

 

[old nurse]

 

 

This is not a response to the OP as I read it.

The OP is not bring up that AB Walker is the only member on the 40 man not brought up from AAA because he approves that he was not brought up.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

All that said:  He must be broken up not getting that call.  The Twins felt that much of him that they promoted 27 dudes during the season and did not feel the need to throw him a bone for his hard work and production.  It's obvious the brother doesn't stand a chance in Minnesota and I hope they let him move on...

I agree completely. As the Twins now have a semi-decent outfield and prefer to use the Mastroianni/Murphy/Schafer types as back-ups, the only realistic chance Walker will have to play in the bigs is as a September call up. So he will have to wait another year. Well, Beresford was finally called up so Walker can at least take hope in that. 

 

The Twins could have used a pinch hitter and outfield sub today, and it might have been a nice spot for Walker instead of Grossman. 

 

 

[Kwak]

Walker's goose was cooked as soon as Park was signed. He'll eventually catch-on with another franchise that promotes him, though Walker may not receive a fair shake there. 

[old nurse]

 

 

Yes, he is young and still raw (but any younger or raw than Buxton or Sano). He slams the ball (any less than Vargas). Are there at bats for him in the majors (he could've come off the bench and pinch hit in the past few games, stepping aside for a pinch runner and a defensive replacement).

 

Is he in the Minnesota Twins plans for the future? This will be up to the new general manager and such. But right now, the Twins have two guys pretty much the same at Rochester. And the other one also ahs to be 40-man protected this winter.

 

So, if even before the management change, you weren't all that high on the guy, why did you not move him then? Or even if not that high for him in the future of the organization (where there is a logjam at OF/1B/DH with the likes of Palka, Sano, Park, Vargas) you could still bring him up to showcase a bit. He might strikeout in all seven at bats over the final 25 games. He might not.

 

He IS someone you have to make a decision on as 40-man spots become tight. Already the Twins are on the bubble with some folks like Duffey, Wimmers, not to mention guys still two years away from getting a major league look like Landa, and Rosario.

 

Is it money? Man, they want to take a long hard look at Schafer as the 4th outfielder? I would take a longer and harder look at Granite and put him on the 25-m,an next year as a defensive replacement pinch runner type at this point since you have to add him to the 40 man.

 

But, yes, the only slam against a player that would've been bigger was if they had left Vargas down on the farm. They can argue the Mejia had his innings in and got a taste with the club. But can't you do the same with Walker of whom you are asking to return to Rochester for another season and to repeat his efforts, maybe cutting down on k's a bit.

 

I'm glad Beresford was given a 40-man reward. I would've liked to see Wheeler get a couple of major league starts on par with AAA buddies Dean and Albers, since he was better than both.

 

The Twins season is a lost cause. You can't even expect them to be spoilers as they play amongst the central division teams. So it is all about guys potentially padding stats, taking time off, showing what they can do, fighting for a job with the Twins in the future. That is the key...FIGHTING FOR A JOB WITH THE TWINS in the Future. If the player clearly has no chance to be a 25-man or 40-man Twin in 2017...don't play those guys.

 

Man, we added quite a few to the 25-man roster this year (I think we are at 49 guys who played on the team, tying a record). 

 

What do they lose bringing up just one more guy! Who is already on the 40-man! Who is considered a Twins Prospect! Who played the entire year at AAA and showed his strengths! If you don't like what he did, if there is really no room in the inn for him, then hopefully he can get a shot elsewhere.

That is the problem. AB Walker has shown what he can do.  What he doesn't do stands out as much as what he does do. One tool won't work.. The best reason to not bring him up is that there still might be a remote chance he could be of value in a trade where multiple players are sent. 3-4 "prospects" for a league average something.  It would keep the mystery about how he would hit against major league pitching unknown

[TheLeviathan]

 

Ok, you read the post and that's what you took from it.

 

What else did you take from it? What other input can you offer?

 

That Mr. Walker is going to have to dramatically cut down on that K rate against minor league pitching before I want him called up.

 

It's certainly not that winning championships earns a call.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

The best reason to not bring him up is that there still might be a remote chance he could be of value in a trade where multiple players are sent. 3-4 "prospects" for a league average something. 

I would be in favor of that. ABW was a Top 10 guy on a lot of lists this past spring, but he'll be 25 next spring without a realistic chance to make the 25 man roster, so the shine is probably off him a little.

 

But bundling him, absolutely. Antony seems more likely to do a trade like that than Ryan did.

[jimmer]

This year he struck out 38% of the time.  He had a BA of .244 and an OBP of .307 even with a very advantageous BABIP of .349.  In AAA. Those kind of numbers don't scream promote, regardless of the HR and RBI totals.

 

Anyway, I wish him luck either in our organization or another, but I'm fine with him not getting promoted.

[old nurse]

Walker has things backwards. If his BA was his K average in the minors and his K average what his BA in the minors is, Walker would have been up last year. 

He has a good OPS in the minors, but not eye popping season.

It would be a true miracle for the K% to come down to league average at the MLB level. Well, his K% is league average for a pitcher batting.  Oswaldo Arcia had better  numbers than Walker other than HR. He isn't making it at the mlb level. That is why Walker isn't being brought up. How many hitting coaches and still can't make contact.

[old nurse]

 

 

This year he struck out 38% of the time.  He had a BA of .244 and an OBP of .307 even with a very advantageous BABIP of .349.  In AAA. Those kind of numbers don't scream promote, regardless of the HR and RBI totals.

 

Anyway, I wish him luck either in our organization or another, but I'm fine with him not getting promoted.

With that high of K% that is about where his BABIP should be.  Unfortunate that they don't have ld% for minors somewhere. His is probably high.

[jimmer]

 

With that high of K% that is about where his BABIP should be.  Unfortunate that they don't have ld% for minors somewhere. His is probably high.

yeah, not sure there's a correlation there, but okay.  

[GMinTraining]

His numbers have been almost identical at every level (good and bad), so the "he won't be able to do that at the next level" excuse is not valid (yet). His 162 game averages thru 5 minor league seasons is 35 HRs and 120+ RBI. He is an all or nothing player yet he averages over 33 doubles per 162 games and 7 triples. Those numbers are never addressed by general public. Why?

 

I'm not saying Walker deserves to be in the starting line up next season, but I am saying he deserves the opportunity to show his worth in a handful of meaningless games.

[bluechipper]

 

His numbers have been almost identical at every level (good and bad), so the "he won't be able to do that at the next level" excuse is not valid (yet).   His 162 game averages thru 5 minor league seasons is 35 HRs and 120+ RBI.  He is an all or nothing player yet he averages over 33 doubles per 162 games and 7 triples.  Those numbers are never addressed by general public.  Why?

I think we've seen the difference between moving up a minor league level and making the jump from minors to majors in the past few years.

 

That being said, I would've liked to have seen Walker with the Twins this September just for the fun of it, but his K numbers just don't look like they'll translate long term.

[GMinTraining]

 

I think we've seen the difference between moving up a minor league level and making the jump from minors to majors in the past few years.

 

That being said, I would've liked to have seen Walker with the Twins this September just for the fun of it, but his K numbers just don't look like they'll translate long term.

He is a poor man's version of Chris Carter with room to improve.  Carter hasn't been a bad fit for Milwaukee.  Carter's numbers were better than Walker's in the minors, but Walker has very similar upside.  I would love to see if he gets picked up when left off 40 man roster.  If he's lucky somebody sees his worth.  If not, welcome back to the minor leagues.

[TheLeviathan]

 

He is a poor man's version of Chris Carter with room to improve.  Carter hasn't been a bad fit for Milwaukee.  Carter's numbers were better than Walker's in the minors, but Walker has very similar upside.  I would love to see if he gets picked up when left off 40 man roster.  If he's lucky somebody sees his worth.  If not, welcome back to the minor leagues.

 

Carter struck out 25% of the time.  Walker is striking out 40%.  So extrapolate his MLB numbers as significantly worse than Carter's.

 

That's not a major league baseball player.

[glunn]

Moderator note -- please stop the squabbling, the personal attacks and the racial references. I just deleted a bunch of posts that violated TD policy, and further violations will lead to suspensions.

[h2oface]

Walker is a classic example of a wasted trade opportunity. He has always been a redundancy from a role standpoint. His value was for trading as part of a prospect package for MLB player(s) when he was at a lower level and selling that he can conquer his strikeout red flag. Too late now. Still a redundancy but nobody thinks he has a real shot now....... except Twins and ABW fans.

[GMinTraining]

 

Walker has things backwards. If his BA was his K average in the minors and his K average what his BA in the minors is, Walker would have been up last year. 

He has a good OPS in the minors, but not eye popping season.

It would be a true miracle for the K% to come down to league average at the MLB level. Well, his K% is league average for a pitcher batting.  Oswaldo Arcia had better  numbers than Walker other than HR. He isn't making it at the mlb level. That is why Walker isn't being brought up. How many hitting coaches and still can't make contact.

That's the Twins - ABW has had the same hitting coach for the last 3 seasons   AA - AFL - AAA.  Maybe a new voice might fix things, but that's thinking outside the box.  He was 20th in the league in strikeouts (20%) when he had Watkins as his hitting coach.  Just saying - You might have something there in terms of hitting coach.   Let's not forget he is among the top prospects in the system in extra base hits every year as well.  That squashes that all or nothing theory IMO.  If he stays in MN, I agree with you.  He isn't making the MLB level.   He has been a league MVP finalist every year except this year and won the team MVP in his worse year to date.  Who is your can't miss future prospect star?  Have they been consistent enough for you?  Whoever it is - they have arrived in name only.  The Twins have not had a high prospect just take off to stardom since Mauer.   Who really knows?  Obviously not the Twins.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Walker is a classic example of a wasted trade opportunity. He has always been a redundancy from a role standpoint. His value was for trading as part of a prospect package for MLB player(s) when he was at a lower level and selling that he can conquer his strikeout red flag. Too late now. Still a redundancy but nobody thinks he has a real shot now....... except Twins and ABW fans.

Except he was never highly regarded as a prospect by anyone, really.

 

ABW is the type of guy who you keep around, warts and all, and hope he irons out a few of his problems but don't get too upset if he never manages to do it.

 

There's a reason he fell to the third round of the draft.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Is there any purpose to not calling up Walker today?  Even if just to get an at-bat or two this month?  The AAA season is over, no playoffs, and he's not even headed to the AFL (although that doesn't begin until October anyway).

 

Are they going to send him to fall instructional leagues?  Do they think exposing him to MLB even a little bit might hurt his already modest trade value?

 

Just curious.  It would seem that every healthy position player in the high minors who is already on the 40-man roster should be called up after their minor league season ends.

[GMinTraining]

 

 

Just curious.  It would seem that every healthy position player in the high minors who is already on the 40-man roster should be called up after their minor league season ends.

 

Logic - Especially after performing as one of the worst two teams in baseball.   There are no good explanations.  Nothing to lose.  

[Rosterman]

Yes, he may be far from perfect. He might be one of those sluggers that gets assorted cups of coffee (starting with this September) and become the next Mark Funderburk, or Bernardo Brito, or Rusty Kuntz, or Cotton Nash. The thing is that if you think so little of him and his work, his progress, that in a year in which you have total system failure you see Mastro and Schafer and any number of others more worthy of him for a callup and major league play and time, then why do you have him on the 40-man. If he is so ill-regarded, you didn't have to protect him last Rule 5...because if you don't think he can make or stick with your roster after his 2016 minor league season, then you basically wasted the spot.

 

You have 18 pitchers currently up on the roster and throwing. You have 17 choices for the nine spots in the batting order. You could easily have added this one more name to the list and help make a dream-come-true. Remember, Kepler only got into three games and seven at bats (with 3 Ks), so was it useless for him to get that early exposure to what major league life is like?

 

Sure, it will cost the Twins an additional $50 grand and an extra hotel room. Is he worth it or not?

[Otto von Ballpark]

I guess if the Twins plan to waive Walker after the season anyway, there isn't really an incentive to call him up right now.  In fact, maybe not recalling him is the best way to dis-incentivize other teams from claiming him on waivers?  Thus allowing the Twins to retain him and assign him outright to AAA for 2017?  I could see him coming up, having a little bit of success to warrant a claim, but not enough success for the Twins to change their mind about his 40-man worthiness this winter.  (Of course, he could come up and struggle too...)

 

He can't yet opt for minor league free agency like Beresford, Schafer, Centeno, Wimmers, O'Rourke, Dean, Albers, etc., so there isn't much need to "reward" him with a call-up yet.

[Platoon]

That is the problem. AB Walker has shown what he can do.  What he doesn't do stands out as much as what he does do. One tool won't work.. The best reason to not bring him up is that there still might be a remote chance he could be of value in a trade where multiple players are sent. 3-4 "prospects" for a league average something.  It would keep the mystery about how he would hit against major league pitching unknown

And what is the one tool that R. Grossman has?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

Except he was never highly regarded as a prospect by anyone, really.

 

ABW is the type of guy who you keep around, warts and all, and hope he irons out a few of his problems but don't get too upset if he never manages to do it.

 

There's a reason he fell to the third round of the draft.

He has been on top 10 prospect lists, so I disagree.