Adalberto Mejia Recalled, Vargas Optioned

[Danchat]

The Twins are calling up Pat Light in place of Mejia. So it looks like they'll go with a 8 man bullpen and Vargas will be back on September 1st.

[jokin]

 

You make a comment like Vargas is out of the organization.  

 

As of now there is nothing happening . Attack because he might be a sweetener in a deal. The whole minor league of fringe players  are sweeteners for deals. So if the Twins hang on to these players because they do nor make trades are you going to blast them for not making trades?

 

Actually, I never said that Vargas was "out of the organization"... in point of fact, I made a comment such that it seemed likely after his demotion in May, 2015, that Vargas was likely no longer in the Twins' long-term plans. And as time progressed and Vargas remained AAA-banished, local beat writers, bloggers and even national scribes concurred.

 

 

[jokin]

 

100% cosign this. Exactly right.

 

Concur with your concurrence.

[kab21]

People really need to get the facts straight and blame the right people if there is actually anyone to blame.

 

No, there's usually more behind it. Vargas plays first base pretty well. He was hitting well until he lost time to Polanco and Plouffe sometime during the first week of August, and then the 0-fers started piling up. Polanco is defensible but Plouffe is a known quantity at this point. In my opinion, instead of playing the optioning game with Vargas and pretending this is the proper thing for his development, the Twins should just trade him. Gladden said on a broadcast this summer that other teams had interest in him.

He didn't lose time to Polanco and Plouffe during the first week of August. He lost time to Sano. Are you suggesting that the Twins don't play Sano? Or do you really think they are going to bench Mauer?

rotoworld on 8/15 (Actually Berardino)

An MRI taken Monday morning on Miguel Sano's right elbow came back negative.

He also told reporters that the elbow feels much better. Sano has been limited to DH duties over the last week-plus and he sat out Sunday against the Royals, but the 23-year-old should resume playing third base this week. Sano is batting .250/.342/.491 with 20 home runs and 50 RBI in 84 games this season.

 

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

People really need to get the facts straight and blame the right people if there is actually anyone to blame.

 

 

He didn't lose time to Polanco and Plouffe during the first week of August. He lost time to Sano. Are you suggesting that the Twins don't play Sano? Or do you really think they are going to bench Mauer?

rotoworld on 8/15 (Actually Berardino)

True. That is another way of looking at it.

 

From the outside, again just an opinion here, but would it look justifiable to you to put Sano on the DL? That could have happened Friday instead of optioning Vargas again. Sano hasn't gotten a hit since the MRI was taken. His elbow might still be affecting him despite what he says publicly.

[kab21]

 

True. That is another way of looking at it.

From the outside, again just an opinion here, but would it look justifiable to you to put Sano on the DL? That could have happened Friday instead of optioning Vargas again. Sano hasn't gotten a hit since the MRI was taken. His elbow might still be affecting him despite what he says publicly.

It is irrelevant when the MRI was taken so the 13 AB hitless sample size is also irrelevant. According to Berardino he has had the injury for at least 2 weeks and possibly all of the August since that is when he started DH'ing a lot. This has been his best month of hitting so far. 

But more importantly the blame shouldn't be placed on Polanco and Plouffe. Vargas's loss of playing time appears to be directly related to Sano's tweaked arm. Maybe he should go to the DL but I am DEFINITELY not making any decision about Sano because Vargas needs playing time. If Sano can play then he is DH'ing.

[KirbyDome89]

 

It is irrelevant when the MRI was taken so the 13 AB hitless sample size is also irrelevant. According to Berardino he has had the injury for at least 2 weeks and possibly all of the August since that is when he started DH'ing a lot. This has been his best month of hitting so far. 

But more importantly the blame shouldn't be placed on Polanco and Plouffe. Vargas's loss of playing time appears to be directly related to Sano's tweaked arm. Maybe he should go to the DL but I am DEFINITELY not making any decision about Sano because Vargas needs playing time. If Sano can play then he is DH'ing.

You're right, if Sano is healthy enough to hit then he should. If your scenario is true then it makes the most preferable option, playing Vargas every day, almost impossible. I would add though, that finding time for Vargas at 1B and DH even with Mauer and Sano isn't impossible either. Molitor has shown all season long his willingness to feed certain players ABs so I don't understand why working Vargas in would be any different. He needs MLB playing time, and while it might not be ideal, even platoon work with the Twins is more valuable than more AAA ABs. 

[kab21]

 

You're right, if Sano is healthy enough to hit then he should. If your scenario is true then it makes the most preferable option, playing Vargas every day, almost impossible. I would add though, that finding time for Vargas at 1B and DH even with Mauer and Sano isn't impossible either. Molitor has shown all season long his willingness to feed certain players ABs so I don't understand why working Vargas in would be any different. He needs MLB playing time, and while it might not be ideal, even platoon work with the Twins is more valuable than more AAA ABs. 

Vargas was getting 2 starts/wk. Are you saying that 3 starts/wk would have been alright?

[KirbyDome89]

 

Vargas was getting 2 starts/wk. Are you saying that 3 starts/wk would have been alright?

3 starts a week against MLB pitching is better than 0. 

[Riverbrian]

 

People really need to get the facts straight and blame the right people if there is actually anyone to blame.

 

He didn't lose time to Polanco and Plouffe during the first week of August. He lost time to Sano. Are you suggesting that the Twins don't play Sano? Or do you really think they are going to bench Mauer?

rotoworld on 8/15 (Actually Berardino)

 

Yes

 

Mauer should play less to accommodate. Anybody can play less to accommodate. No one should get stiff waiting for playing time. 

 

If the Cardinals can do it in a wildcard chase... The Twins can do it when they are not in a wildcard chase. 

 

Managers should be able to figure it out. 

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

People seem to have left out Sano's tweaked arm. He was DH'ing a lot before Plouffe came back and I wouldn't be surprised if he would be DH'ing a lot if Plouffe wasn't playing 3B.

So if Sano is at DH and is going to play and Mauer is at 1B and he is going to play (until his recent tweaked quad then Vargas is going to be on the bench a lot. And he has been unfortunately. Sending him down (or putting Mauer on the DL) is probably the right move. This is the roster situation that the Twins are in right now. Too many DH's and 1B. Did anyone ever think that would have been the case 10 years ago.

I like Vargas a lot and this sucks though.

In general, you have a point, although the specific timing of this move is still a head-scratcher.

 

When Vargas was optioned, Mauer and Kepler were unable to start in the field either of the next two games, so Plouffe started at 1B and Santana in RF.  Seems like it would have been much more logical to delay this demotion, start Vargas at 1B over the weekend, and put Polanco or Plouffe in a corner OF spot (or even Escobar if you foresee his future back in a super-utility role, and prioritize infield reps for Polanco and Plouffe).  In light of those injuries (and Sano's elbow), just ask this simple question, who was going to be more useful over the weekend -- Vargas or a just-used Ryan O'Rourke?  Probably over the next 10 days too, unless those injuries magically disappear today.

 

I know the Twins have taken plenty of flack for putting infielders in the outfield, but I really don't have a problem with it if the players and team are in evaluation mode and they aren't ignoring better options.  (It's a problem when they open a season in "infielders in the outfield" mode, or when they expand it to "infielders at DH" like in May 2015.)

 

Vargas' last 5 starts have been exclusively in doubleheaders or on "travel days".  Yeah, if you limit any player to that role, they are pretty much expendable.  I'd hope for a little more creativity from my manager, though, in these circumstances.

[wsnydes]

 

If the Cardinals can do it in a wildcard chase... The Twins can do it when they are not in a wildcard chase. 

 

Managers should be able to figure it out. 

I think the NL game helps with that.  The nature of the added strategy makes it necessary and easier to get all of your guys rotated in more frequently.  I do agree with your point though.  It shouldn't be that difficult to get these guys rotated into games during the course of a week.  They have nothing to play for essentially, so seeing what you've got in the system should be a priority.  If nothing else, it helps you decide on what holes you have to fill.  Nothing bad can come from the young guys getting more playing time at this point.

[kab21]

 

3 starts a week against MLB pitching is better than 0. 

I will repeat he was getting 2 starts per week. Not zero.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I will repeat he was getting 2 starts per week. Not zero.

The point was, now he is getting zero.  A little creativity to get him 3 seems better than zero.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

If the Cardinals can do it in a wildcard chase... The Twins can do it when they are not in a wildcard chase. 

 

Managers should be able to figure it out. 

Yeah.  It seems like the Cardinals would not have permanently parked Mauer at 1B, or Plouffe permanently at 3B/1B, which feels like the big bottlenecks for the Twins right now.  Grossman exclusively in LF also feels like an un-Cardinals move.  Never mind doing those things and sticking to them in rebuilding/lost seasons.

 

They also might make more liberal use of the DL, which the Twins could benefit from?

[Mike Sixel]

Vargas needs to face MLB pitching, not AAA pitching. He's not clearing next year......

 

There is plenty of room, if you are willing to play him at 1B and occasionally DH. Three games a week in MN is better than 6 games a week in AAA for two weeks, imo.

 

But, they really want Plouffe to play every day it seems. I am not sure why.

 

Do they (or people here) really think this team is a good team next year? Not ok team, good team? If not, why is playing Plouffe a priority? 

[stringer bell]

Vargas was caught up in a numbers game. It is a tough call, but defensible IMHO. The real question is what to do with Vargas and Park. They play the same position and realistically can't be on the same 25-man roster. I do think Vargas' work for the Twins this year has put him ahead of Park.

[Vanimal46]

This situation makes the Park signing even more questionable... 3 DH types on 1 team isn't going to cut it. It'll be interesting to see who the new GM decides to keep and who to let go. Sano/Park/Vargas can not survive on a roster together going forward.

[Mike Sixel]

Park has options, he can sit in AAA until he shows he's good.

 

the issue is Sano, Plouffe, Vargas, Mauer for now. When/if Park shows he's ready, then the oldest prospect ever can be a concern....

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

This situation makes the Park signing even more questionable... 

It's particularly questionable given our commitment to rigid roles at these positions.  If we were willing to spot Mauer or Plouffe (or Park?) in the outfield, it becomes a lot easier to manage.  But we're not -- Mauer and Plouffe will never see the outfield again as Twins, and I haven't heard anything about Park doing so either although he might be a better candidate than Sano.  Sano appeared in the outfield, but as a misguided permanent position change (that has now been permanently terminated?), rather than spot appearances for flexibility.

 

The obvious retort is, "if they all hit, it's a good problem to have!"  But here we are with a log jam and we can't even give Park and Vargas the chance to fail in MLB at the moment.

[TheTruth]

The Twins are obviously too deep to be able to find ABs for someone like Vargas. Maybe a lowly team like the RedSox could find room. Big Poppi is retiring. Vargas could slide right in. 

 

What do you think the chances of Vargas succeeding in Boston are if he played full time ?

[Vanimal46]

 

The Twins are obviously too deep to be able to find ABs for someone like Vargas. Maybe a lowly team like the RedSox could find room. Big Poppi is retiring. Vargas could slide right in. 

 

What do you think the chances of Vargas succeeding in Boston are if he played full time ?

Whether it's for the Red Sox or another team, I think if someone gave Vargas 550 ABs, he'd be a .240-.250 hitter with 25 HRs. 

[TheTruth]

 

Whether it's for the Red Sox or another team, I think if someone gave Vargas 550 ABs, he'd be a .240-.250 hitter with 25 HRs. 

 

Agree, although I think his average might be a bit higher. I only mentioned Boston and Ortiz for an ironic chuckle.

[Riverbrian]

 

Vargas was caught up in a numbers game. It is a tough call, but defensible IMHO. The real question is what to do with Vargas and Park. They play the same position and realistically can't be on the same 25-man roster. I do think Vargas' work for the Twins this year has put him ahead of Park.

 

I agree with what Spycake said. The Cardinals wouldn't have permanently parked Mauer. 

 

A little creativity and the Twins could have Mauer/Sano/Vargas and Park (If he figures it out) on the same roster and playing a decent amount of innings. 

 

I know this type of thinking can shock some and the immediate reaction will be no way... But... The Cubs... Cards... Dodgers and the Rangers are showing everybody else that it is possible. 

 

I'm pretty sure that Maddon or Methany would not see a problem.

 

 

[Riverbrian]

 

This situation makes the Park signing even more questionable... 3 DH types on 1 team isn't going to cut it. It'll be interesting to see who the new GM decides to keep and who to let go. Sano/Park/Vargas can not survive on a roster together going forward.

 

I still have a dream and I'm not letting go of it. I would love for Park to figure it out and come back strong and that would take my dream to Sano 3b / Vargas DH/1B /Park DH/1B back to back in the same lineup. 

 

Mauer can mix in there... play a little 1B... A little OF.... A little DH

 

Plouffe is now gone and out of my dream. 

[Riverbrian]

 

It's particularly questionable given our commitment to rigid roles at these positions.  If we were willing to spot Mauer or Plouffe (or Park?) in the outfield, it becomes a lot easier to manage.  But we're not -- Mauer and Plouffe will never see the outfield again as Twins, and I haven't heard anything about Park doing so either although he might be a better candidate than Sano.  Sano appeared in the outfield, but as a misguided permanent position change (that has now been permanently terminated?), rather than spot appearances for flexibility.

 

The obvious retort is, "if they all hit, it's a good problem to have!"  But here we are with a log jam and we can't even give Park and Vargas the chance to fail in MLB at the moment.

 

Yep... This is where my frustation lies. 

 

All Molitor has to do is pay attention to what Maddon and Metheny are doing and take it from there. I think he's smart enough to figure out what they are doing if he is... at least inclined. 

 

I'm worried that he is not inclined and that is where my frustration lies. 

 

If he can't see it... I'd rather the Twins gave Dave Martinez a call because he can. 

[Jham]

 

Yep... This is where my frustation lies. 

 

All Molitor has to do is pay attention to what Maddon and Metheny are doing and take it from there. I think he's smart enough to figure out what they are doing if he as at least inclined. 

 

I'm worried that he is not inclined and that is where my frustration lies. 

 

If he can't see it... I'd rather the Twins gave Dave Martinez a call because he can. 

Wait...  I think he tried that... and got hammered for it... and his boss got fired for it...  But I suppose that was a couple months ago now.  You need the players to buy in as well.  Sano did not.  Mauer certainly will not.  Let's move Park to right, then Vargas if he fails, then me.

[Riverbrian]

 

Wait...  I think he tried that... and got hammered for it... and his boss got fired for it...  But I suppose that was a couple months ago now.  You need the players to buy in as well.  Sano did not.  Mauer certainly will not.  Let's move Park to right, then Vargas if he fails, then me.

 

Sano may have been the wrong guy. 

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Wait... I think he tried that... and got hammered for it... and his boss got fired for it... But I suppose that was a couple months ago now. You need the players to buy in as well. Sano did not. Mauer certainly will not. Let's move Park to right, then Vargas if he fails, then me.

I would argue Sano to RF was a pretty ham-handed attempt at this. They moved one guy, the guy with the least seniority, somewhat permanently, despite some pretty obvious issues. Didn't really set a tone of flexibility across the roster.

 

Also, I think a good manager with a good plan can get buy-in from just about anyone. Harder for Molitor at this point, but not impossible.

[Woody Wants Wins]

The biggest problem Vargas has is that Sano can't play 3B.  So once again we have 4 players with similar OPS possibilities that are going to play two positions. 1B and DH