Reusse slams the Twins

[wsnydes]

 

I could be mistaken, but I believe wsnydes comments are in regards to Ortiz not Reusse.

You are correct, but I do agree with the point Platoon was making as well.

[wsnydes]

 

I agree about the Ortiz celebration being odd.  I thought the interview on the NBC webpage today was particularity bad in that it was not just criticizing the organization, but the fans as well.

Perhaps the fans in attendance should just ignore the fact that he's even being honored.  No applause/boos when he comes to the plate.  Not a peep if he does anything, whether it be strike out or hit yet another towering moon shot off of a Twins pitcher.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Regarding weight, the Twins told Sano and Vargas to lose weight. They had an entire off-season and the resources in order to do it (money for a gym, healthy food, cooks, nutritionist, trainer, Twins likely offered to send someone down and work with them, etc.) and they come back weighing more? They deserve some blame.

Pretty sure Sano weighed less compared to the end of last season -- I believe his reported weight "gain" was relative to last spring. Vargas, I have no idea.

[wsnydes]

 

Pretty sure Sano weighed less compared to the end of last season -- I believe his reported weight "gain" was relative to last spring. Vargas, I have no idea.

I thought that they had wanted him to report to camp at 250 or something and he came in 10 pounds heavier.  

[tobi0040]

Pretty sure Sano weighed less compared to the end of last season -- I believe his reported weight "gain" was relative to last spring. Vargas, I have no idea.

Right. But Ruesse said right before the season he was 10+ pounds heavier than where the Twins wanted him.

 

"He is heavier this spring than last. He is at 270-plus when the Twins were hoping to have him at 260-minus as they go forward with the plan to play him in right field"

 

http://www.startribune.com/twins-young-sano-has-some-growing-up-to-do/373684911/

[Otto von Ballpark]

I thought that they had wanted him to report to camp at 250 or something and he came in 10 pounds heavier.

That doesn't necessarily mean he gained weight over the offseason, though. Just that he didn't lose as much as they wanted.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Right. But Ruesse said right before the season he was 10+ pounds heavier than where the Twins wanted him.

 

"He is heavier this spring than last. He is at 270-plus when the Twins were hoping to have him at 260-minus as they go forward with the plan to play him in right field"

 

http://www.startribune.com/twins-young-sano-has-some-growing-up-to-do/373684911/

That is fine, but you claimed Sano came back weighing more after the off season. That doesn't appear to be true -- at least from what I have read, he did lose weight, just not as much as hoped.

 

Not sure how much to blame the player -- maybe the team didn't emphasize the weight loss as much, with the position change they were also pushing.

 

Edit: just read the Reuse article, and he notes a 7 pound weight gain from Sano. I swear I read about a ~5 pound loss previously though. Admittedly I don't care all that much, so I haven't followed the weight reportage too closely...

[wsnydes]

 

That doesn't necessarily mean he gained weight over the offseason, though. Just that he didn't lose as much as they wanted.

I never claimed that he gained weight, only that he came in heavier than they wanted him to.  That is all.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I never claimed that he gained weight, only that he came in heavier than they wanted him to. That is all.

Sure, but the poster I quoted and was responding to made that claim.

 

It appears Reusse provides some numbers to back that poster up in this most recent article, although his numbers now differ from what was previously reported:

 

http://m.startribune.com/sano-not-exactly-downsized-but-ready-for-switch/367162191/

[alarp33]

 

Yeah, ignoring everything else, I can't believe they are doing this.  Even if you think PEDs had nothing to do with his improbable career arc, he's been a jerk to this franchise every chance he's had.  

 

Even if Ortiz spoke glowingly about MN at every opportunity, which obviously he doesn't, I would have a bit of an issue honoring a player that symbolizes such an epic failure in player evaluation, by the same regime that is still in place, during an 18-40 season.  He's not a Twin, hasn't been for almost 15 years... let's move on, he obviously has. 

[Platoon]

You are correct, but I do agree with the point Platoon was making as well.

Now I not only have to apologize to dead horses, and the SPCA, I have to apologize to wsnydes also. . I went back and re-read, the error in my ways was apparent.

[Craig Arko]

Now I not only have to apologize to dead horses, and the SPCA, I have to apologize to wsnydes also. . I went back and re-read, the error in my ways was apparent.

No horses were harmed in the making of this thread.

 

The referenced article, who knows?

[SDTwinsFan]

I've said it on twitter and I'll echo it here -- for various reasons I still can't believe they're doing the dance parties. 

 

You can single out a number of reasons, but it just doesn't feel right. Bad record, it was a last year/Torii thing.....I just don't think it's great.

 

Generally, I agree with you, but at the same time, are they just supposed to not be excited after a win? If they don't allow themselves to get excited, we can't expect them to play with any passion. Yes, the year is pretty much over already, but it's nice to see them care. It wouldn't be very fun to be pissed for 162 games and after wins, stomp off the field and say "we won, but we are still in last place."

 

Just a different view.

[wsnydes]

 

Now I not only have to apologize to dead horses, and the SPCA, I have to apologize to wsnydes also. . I went back and re-read, the error in my ways was apparent.

No apology necessary...to me anyway.  I won't speak for the SPCA or dead horses.

[gocgo]

I especially liked his point that we are going into a draft with the same scouting staff that has proven that they can't evaluate talent...yet are not held accountable.

 

I disagree with the following statement:

As for ownership, the hostile hard-cores love to complain about the Pohlads, but they deserved a great deal more than they have gotten for the $170 million that Ryan committed to veteran starters Erv Santana, Ricky Nolasco and Phil Hughes.

 

They deserved what they got.  They paid top dollar for pitchers who were past their prime and were, in some cases, already past the magic 30.  The numbers are there for everyone to look at.  Pitchers over 30 are similar to running backs over 30 in the NFL.  They don't improve and often fall off a ledge when the miles on their arms catch up with them.

[wsnydes]

 

I especially liked his point that we are going into a draft with the same scouting staff that has proven that they can't evaluate talent...yet are not held accountable.

 

I disagree with the following statement:

As for ownership, the hostile hard-cores love to complain about the Pohlads, but they deserved a great deal more than they have gotten for the $170 million that Ryan committed to veteran starters Erv Santana, Ricky Nolasco and Phil Hughes.

 

They deserved what they got.  They paid top dollar for pitchers who were past their prime and were, in some cases, already past the magic 30.  The numbers are there for everyone to look at.  Pitchers over 30 are similar to running backs over 30 in the NFL.  They don't improve and often fall off a ledge when the miles on their arms catch up with them.

I think that's his point though.  Look at what he's paying $170M for - a couple of guys north of 30 and a giant question mark who had one very good season.  That money could have been better spent on younger players.  

 

Admittedly I didn't mind either the Santana or Nolasco signing at the time, but I thought they paid a steep price for them.  That's the part I didn't like.

[nicksaviking]

I agree with most of Reusse's complaints, but he should have left the draft stuff out. Complaining about draft picks numbered 30+ is almost always ridiculous and I'm sure he knows that. However I'd guess he also knows that the average fan does not know the extreme long odds of picks outside of the top half of the 1st round and he is counting on that to help stir the pot more.

 

His diatribe would have been just as effective without playing up the dubious draft angle. No need to manufacture rage, there is plenty of the legit stuff available.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Not sure I'd throw Santana into those pitchers, and heck even Hughes was quite good before his extension...  Putting that aside a second, I want them to celebrate wins.  Just means they want them.  Dance parties?  Who cares.  If that's what they are doing instead of normal BP, OK, I get it.  If that's what they want to do in spare time to build comradery, who cares (even if I don't understand it). 

 

That said, if no one on this team is embarrassed by their play... well, that's a big problem.

[LaBombo]

 

Yeah it's a weird vendetta he has against Sano this season. I'm not quite sure why he hasn't let that go yet. 

 

This is a bit of a stretch for me to even take a guess at,   but it may have partly to do with the somewhat unique position Sano is in.

 

The Twins have been mostly terrible for five years.    Attention has naturally turned to the prospects,   but with the exception of Dozier's unexpected ascent,  the results have mostly been pretty meh.    Sano has been almost the only bright spot to graduate from the farm system, and even the normally reserved BProp gushed about his 2015.

 

But this season,   he started out by reporting either out of shape or at least not in better shape like the Twins expected.   He's been playing out of position, and poorly at that,   in right field.  He's been good at the plate,  but inevitable regression due to his sky-high .396 BABIP last season has rendered his numbers disappointing.   And now he's hurt.

 

Plenty of Twins,   in fact most of them,   have been worse than Sano,  but contrasted with last year,    few have been more disappointing.   The weight and the defensive follies have made him an easy target for jokes,   but in the end his real sin was being the odds-on favorite to be the best player in what has so far turned out to be one of the worst seasons in Twins history.

 

Some of it may be personal for Reusse,  but not directly caused by Sano.   Maybe Reusse's cumulative, decades-long quantity and quality of professional exposure to Twins baseball makes this stink bomb of a year that much harder to stomach than for most fans.   Maybe he's privy to more behind-the-scenes grumbling about Sano than he's let on.   Maybe it's something as simple as having his eye on retirement and wanting to go out covering the exact,  extreme opposite of this train wreck.

 

Either way, for me Reusse's writing ultimately boils down to another voice (and a loud one at that) telling ownership that the Twins aren't just bad,  but bad in a way that makes it hard to watch them.   If this helps the Pohlads realize that rather than a bad year,  they have a badly run franchise on their hands,  then I'm all for Patrick letting it rip,  whether I agree with all the particulars of his columns or not.

[gocgo]

...and another thing.  What about Perkins conditioning?  He's not hanging out in the Dominican over the winter, but he's not exactly coming into camp in condition.

[alarp33]

 

 

 

I disagree with the following statement:

As for ownership, the hostile hard-cores love to complain about the Pohlads, but they deserved a great deal more than they have gotten for the $170 million that Ryan committed to veteran starters Erv Santana, Ricky Nolasco and Phil Hughes.

 

They deserved what they got.  They paid top dollar for pitchers who were past their prime and were, in some cases, already past the magic 30.  The numbers are there for everyone to look at.  Pitchers over 30 are similar to running backs over 30 in the NFL.  They don't improve and often fall off a ledge when the miles on their arms catch up with them.

 

I think the point was the GM told him that money should be spent on those players.  

 

The counter would be, well the Pohlad's are the ones who choose to employ this GM

[Hrbowski]

 

He is now overseeing the draft and will oversee 4-5 months of extended spring training for the big club to break in/evaluate young players.

Ryan is not overseeing the draft.

[mazeville]

I read the column and mostly agree with it. I definitely agree with the frustration. This is a maddening, maddening year -- the worst in Twins history. My hope is that it helps spur the Twins to start making changes. And they NEED to make changes.

[alarp33]

 

I agree with most of Reusse's complaints, but he should have left the draft stuff out. Complaining about draft picks numbered 30+ is almost always ridiculous and I'm sure he knows that. However I'd guess he also knows that the average fan does not know the extreme long odds of picks outside of the top half of the 1st round and he is counting on that to help stir the pot more.

 

His diatribe would have been just as effective without playing up the dubious draft angle. No need to manufacture rage, there is plenty of the legit stuff available.

 

He used 2011 as an example, and yeah those picks 30-55 are longer shots... but I think the last 10+ years has shown this team has drafted pretty poorly.  

 

I don't get the Kohl Stewart shot though, he's a top 100 prospect and was just drafted 3 years ago

[laloesch]

 

Judging "in shape" by pounds is obnoxiously misguided. If you read Russe you'd think Sano looks like Prince Fielder.

My eye test is failing me on that argument.

 

 

Dude he's 6'-4" and 278 pounds.  He's not exactly lean more like porky.

[twinsnorth49]

 

He used 2011 as an example, and yeah those picks 30-55 are longer shots... but I think the last 10+ years has shown this team has drafted pretty poorly.  

 

I don't get the Kohl Stewart shot though, he's a top 100 prospect and was just drafted 3 years ago

Yeah, singling Stewart out was a head shaker for sure.

[twinsnorth49]

 

Dude he's 6'-4" and 278 pounds.  He's not exactly lean more like porky.

Don't agree with that assessment, I'd also be surprised if he's still currently 278. 

[Halsey Hall]

Ruesse and Souchery are talking about the article right now.  Ruesse was just fuming the other day on his show about the dance parties, and said Mollie should take a bat to the smoke machine.  There should be no dancing until they hit .400.  This article is just a spill over from that.  I agree, a dance party with that record?  Crazy.  He just stated he could guarentee that no more than 8 players are in that room, as the rest are embarresed with the season. 

 

Also, Morneas was signed by the mighty whities.

[Platoon]

Ryan is not overseeing the draft.

While he might not be "doing" the drafting, he is most assuredly overseeing it. If he isn't, why the word "General" before manager.

[gocgo]

 

I think the point was the GM told him that money should be spent on those players.  

 

The counter would be, well the Pohlad's are the ones who choose to employ this GM

While I agree to a point, if a schmuck like me can look up what happens to pitchers over 30.  I would think an owner of a baseball team should know as well.