Neal: Berrios Hopes His Time Will Come Soon

[Seth Stohs]

We all wanted to see him in 2015, but at some point - probably early - we will see him in the big leagues pitching for the Twins. 

 

LaVelle E Neal wrote up a nice article with fun exciting quotes from Rochester manager and pitching coach (Chattanooga last year) Stu Cliburn on what Berrios can be. Comparisons to Hudson/Mulder/Zito are fun to read. Tyler Duffey discussed what it's like watching Berrios pitch especially once he gets going. 

 

From Stu Cliburn:

 

 

"That changeup, from the right side, reminds me of Johan Santana's, the action that it has,"

 

I don't know... I can't wait. I hope that he is up with the Twins making starts 12 days after the season starts!

[Craig Arko]

His debut may be the most important game of the season. Hope it happens at home.

[nicksaviking]

I hope an injury or awful performance from an incumbent isn't going to be what is required for him to come up. If he's pitching better than a vet(s), he should be up.

[drjim]

Good optimism from Gammons:

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Interesting comparable in Archer.  The normally tight-fisted Rays didn't play any service time games with him, they started his clock in a pennant race in 2012 and he actually wound up qualifying as a super-2 eligible player.

 

Of course, given the starters we have in camp, I don't really care if Berrios stays down for 12 days, but we should probably make room for him well before super 2 becomes an issue in June.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Of course, given the starters we have in camp, I don't really care if Berrios stays down for 12 days, but we should probably make room for him well before super 2 becomes an issue in June.

I'm struggling between conflicting emotions with Berrios:

 

- Part of me hopes the rotation is good enough that we argue endlessly about Jose and he doesn't make an appearance in Minnesota until late in the season

 

- Part of me hopes at least one, maybe two, of the current starters fall off a cliff in March and the decision makes itself

[Paul Pleiss]

I don't understand not bringing up Jose Berrios to start the season. What does he have left to prove in AAA? He dominated there last season. Bring him up. If this kid is the stud pitcher he appears to be, an extra year of arbitration isn't going to matter. Twins are going to want to lock him up long before that.

[70charger]

 

I don't understand not bringing up Jose Berrios to start the season. What does he have left to prove in AAA? He dominated there last season. Bring him up. If this kid is the stud pitcher he appears to be, an extra year of arbitration isn't going to matter. Twins are going to want to lock him up long before that.

 

Two weeks for an extra year. A few months-ish for an extra year of arbitration. Big, big, big difference.

 

No Berrios to start the season.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Two weeks for an extra year. A few months-ish for an extra year of arbitration. Big, big, big difference.

 

No Berrios to start the season.

We've been over this elsewhere, but it is probably not that big of a difference for pitching prospects. Very few pitching prospects have ever been held back for service time reasons, and virtually zero in the Bryant and Longoria fashion. Berrios is good, but he might be an odd choice to be the first pitcher to get that treatment.

 

I think it is highly unlikely Berrios comes up after 12 days this season, unless it is a general luck of timing. Even Sano didn't come up at the super 2 date last year (and it might have cost us the playoffs). And Buxton only came up then due to a clear injury. And those guys are more elite than Berrios, with a more stable future projection as position players too.

[Ronald Zimmerman]

I'm for taking the super 2 away, sorry it's a game of economics!

[bluechipper]

 

We've been over this elsewhere, but it is probably not that big of a difference for pitching prospects. Very few pitching prospects have ever been held back for service time reasons, and virtually zero in the Bryant and Longoria fashion. Berrios is good, but he might be an odd choice to be the first pitcher to get that treatment.

I think it is highly unlikely Berrios comes up after 12 days this season, unless it is a general luck of timing. Even Sano didn't come up at the super 2 date last year (and it might have cost us the playoffs). And Buxton only came up then due to a clear injury. And those guys are more elite than Berrios, with a more stable future projection as position players too.

Edit: I see you were talking about the Super 2 date in regards to Sano and Buxton

 

It's clear to me that Berrios should start in Triple-A and pitch there for a month to get that extra year.

[Seth Stohs]

 

His debut may be the most important game of the season. Hope it happens at home.

 

Man, I hope this isn't the case!!  If the most important game they play is in April or May, that's not too good.

[Seth Stohs]

 

We've been over this elsewhere, but it is probably not that big of a difference for pitching prospects. Very few pitching prospects have ever been held back for service time reasons, and virtually zero in the Bryant and Longoria fashion. Berrios is good, but he might be an odd choice to be the first pitcher to get that treatment.

I think it is highly unlikely Berrios comes up after 12 days this season, unless it is a general luck of timing. Even Sano didn't come up at the super 2 date last year (and it might have cost us the playoffs). And Buxton only came up then due to a clear injury. And those guys are more elite than Berrios, with a more stable future projection as position players too.

 

I agree that the Twins aren't going to care about the 12 day thing. If he makes the starting rotation for Opening Day, they'll have him up there on Opening Day. If he's not, they're not going to work the system. The guys that make it will get a month. 

 

As for the 12 day thing, it's wise for a team. I'd rather get 32-33 starts from him in 2023 that 2-3 starts at the start of the 2016 season. To me that business decision of being able to hold off on other decisions for another year shouldn't be just for the elite. They should be for anyone deemed a prospect.

 

As for the comment about Sano he didn't start hitting at all well in AA for the first 3-4 weeks of the season and didn't start crushing the ball for a few more weeks. So, that's a lot more to do with why he was called up July 1st rather than June 1st, a lot more than the Super-2 thing. 

[howieramone2]

Who replaces Plouffe at 3B when he has days off isn't going to decide the season. How well Berrios pitches may. Bring him up when he's ready.

[Otto von Ballpark]

As for the comment about Sano he didn't start hitting at all well in AA for the first 3-4 weeks of the season and didn't start crushing the ball for a few more weeks. So, that's a lot more to do with why he was called up July 1st rather than June 1st, a lot more than the Super-2 thing.

I generally like the Twins promotion timelines, buy I wish they called up Sano the same day as Correa. Slow April or not, he was ready by early June. Instead we had our worst month of the season in June, giving Vargas one last chance...

[Madre Dos]

I hope he gets a start before May 27.  His goal was to be in the majors when he was 21. 

[jimbo92107]

If Berrios looks as good in spring training as he did at the end of the AAA season, then he's no worse than the fourth best starter on the MLB team, with nothing but more upside. 

 

Seems more a question of when the Twins want to start getting their top prospects experience at the highest level, rather than contract stuff. Does this wave of talent crest two years from now, or three years from now? One more year with a patchwork starting rotation of dubious veterans isn't going to keep this team respectable. The Twins are a multi-year 90 game loser. I lack sufficient sandpaper to scrap that off my tired eyeballs. Please, please bring some of that minor league talent up to the majors. Let the young hotshots play ball!

[clutterheart]

Two weeks for an extra year. A few months-ish for an extra year of arbitration. Big, big, big difference.

 

No Berrios to start the season.

This is why fans have 0 right to expect any kind of home town discount when its time to resign him.

If the Twins play service time games with Berrios he should bleed the Pohlads dry.

[70charger]

Do hometown discounts actually, really exist? If Mauer wouldn't do it, who would? Also, let's not count over-the-hill players who take a substantial pay "to stay with their team" even though that's probably what they'd earn on an open market.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Do hometown discounts actually, really exist? If Mauer wouldn't do it, who would? Also, let's not count over-the-hill players who take a substantial pay "to stay with their team" even though that's probably what they'd earn on an open market.

It's quite possible Mauer would have done it, if we made a better offer earlier. By the time we got around to respectable offers, he was within a year of full FA.

 

To me, hometown discount is less about how much the contract is for, but rather when it is signed.

 

Of course, the calculus is different with a pitcher, you will probably never want to sign him to as long as a deal as a position player. But perhaps you can get an early arb buyout deal like Chris Archer.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Given the abundance of (mediocre) pitchers on the roster, I think it doubly makes sense to hold Berrios back for at least a month.

 

It should take a month or so for the depth chart to reach Berrios even if multiple guys stumble out of the gate. I'm fine with figuring out who deserves to start amongst Hughes, Gibson, Santana, Nolasco, Duffey, and Milone and then figuring out a way to get Berrios into the mix in May or maybe even June.

[Shaitan]

What's the 40-man situation? Will they have to cut someone whenever he's added? If so, I'd think that suggests he'll be a May call-up instead of April. They usually give players that extra month before severing ties.

[Paul Pleiss]

Somewhere along the way it became less about putting the best 9 guys in the organization out on the field every day and taking your chances, and more about "building for a window of success."

 

Hopefully Terry Ryan 2.0 can get the Twins back to the WS for the first time in going on 25 years.