La Velle: Sano Lost 5 Pounds This Offseason

[Bob Sacamento]

 

IMO the season starts with Arcia in right, Sano the DH and Park in AAA.

I think this has a strong chance of happening, gives Park some time to get adjusted, gives Arcia some playing time to see if he sticks or hits the waiver/trade wire.  Left handed power bats like Ozzy don't grow on trees, I'm thinking 2016 is his breakout year as he's healthy, he's matured, and his poor 2015 season has left him hungry to prove himself.

 

Side note and soapbox, I've been trying to convince anyone who'll listen in the organization (players, FO, strength conditioning, etc) the benefits of yoga and pilates for the players.  Players (esp the young latinos) think its girly but if any of them could achieve a little increase in flexibility (lumbar, hamstrings, quads, etc) it'd be well worth it.  

[Dantes929]

 

Sounds about right. Hopefully the frustration doesn't build up and confidence begins to wane with our fly ball pitchers like Hughes and Santana. There's certainly going to be cases where fly balls that were caught last season are going to drop for hits this season. 

I think you forget where the bar was set last year with Hunter and Arcia.    Our outfield last year was improved because of Rosario, Hicks and Buxton,    Right field was pretty marginal.   I believe Sano is faster than Hunter or Arica were so again it comes down to recognition off the bat and the ability to catch while running..     I am not saying mistakes won't be made or that he will be good out there.  In fact, he might be horrible which will force going another direction.  Speed won't be the issue and if he is good at recognizing balls off the bat then he will probably get to a few that didn't drop last year.    I also don't know if not having played there is a huge deal.   I never played the outfield much but stood out there for hundreds of hours fielding fly balls during batting practice.  I am guessing he has had hundreds of balls hit to him already and will get hundreds more during ST.      

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think this has a strong chance of happening, gives Park some time to get adjusted, gives Arcia some playing time to see if he sticks or hits the waiver/trade wire.  Left handed power bats like Ozzy don't grow on trees, I'm thinking 2016 is his breakout year as he's healthy, he's matured, and his poor 2015 season has left him hungry to prove himself.

 

Side note and soapbox, I've been trying to convince anyone who'll listen in the organization (players, FO, strength conditioning, etc) the benefits of yoga and pilates for the players.  Players (esp the young latinos) think its girly but if any of them could achieve a little increase in flexibility (lumbar, hamstrings, quads, etc) it'd be well worth it.  

 

And guys that are too hard on themselves should meditate. I truly believe that if a certain OF that is back with the organization could learn to relax......

 

I agree that Sano should be the DH, Arcia in RF, and Park in AAA to start the year. 

[gmarais66]

 

And guys that are too hard on themselves should meditate. I truly believe that if a certain OF that is back with the organization could learn to relax......

 

I agree that Sano should be the DH, Arcia in RF, and Park in AAA to start the year. 

I think this would be a disaster from Sano's standpoint. He has made a big deal about wanting to play in the field and the Twins' have committed themselves to making that happen. If they plop him back in the DH position, I don't think it will go over very well.

[Winston Smith]

 

I would note that for all we know, Sano has converted some of his fat into muscle.  Maybe he lost 5 pounds of fat and converted another 5 pounds into muscle.

If he gained 5# of muscle and lost 5# of fat he'd be the same wouldn't he? I think there is a rule about doing math on here by the way!

 

Nice blizzard out anyway!

[Vanimal46]

 

I think you forget where the bar was set last year with Hunter and Arcia.    Our outfield last year was improved because of Rosario, Hicks and Buxton,    Right field was pretty marginal.   I believe Sano is faster than Hunter or Arica were so again it comes down to recognition off the bat and the ability to catch while running..     I am not saying mistakes won't be made or that he will be good out there.  In fact, he might be horrible which will force going another direction.  Speed won't be the issue and if he is good at recognizing balls off the bat then he will probably get to a few that didn't drop last year.    I also don't know if not having played there is a huge deal.   I never played the outfield much but stood out there for hundreds of hours fielding fly balls during batting practice.  I am guessing he has had hundreds of balls hit to him already and will get hundreds more during ST.      

We had a very limited experience with Rosario, Hicks, and Buxton out there. Really it was Hicks and Rosario that kept it together, and Hunter being a veteran who's been there and done that, still knew how to track down fly balls well even with the lost speed he once had.

I'm sure Sano's been practicing tracking down fly balls the last 2 months. It still doesn't change the fact that this spring will be his 1st game ever playing in the OF. If Radcliff, who's been scouting MLB talent since before I was born, has concerns about a rough transition for Sano, who am I to think different? 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

My ideal situation would be in June, Plouffe has found a new home.  Sano at 3B, Rosario/Buxton/Kepler in the OF.  Mauer at 1B and Arcia and Park rotating between DH and bench bat.  Arcia could see some time in the OF as well.

That'd be my goal as well but I'm not all-in on Kepler quite yet... He needs to show me more than one very good season. I *love* his peripherals, which show a lot of sustained potential, but I still need to see more from him in Rochester. I think he may end up being more of a 2017 guy than this season.

[tobi0040]

 

That'd be my goal as well but I'm not all-in on Kepler quite yet... He needs to show me more than one very good season. I *love* his peripherals, which show a lot of sustained potential, but I still need to see more from him in Rochester. I think he may end up being more of a 2017 guy than this season.

 

Yeah, part of my hope is he picks up where he left off in AAA and then is up in June. I agree he needs to prove it in AAA again.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

IMO the season starts with Arcia in right, Sano the DH and Park in AAA.

Really?  I can't see Park starting in AAA, not with the commitment and expectations around him.

[ScrapTheNickname]

 

In fairness, management for three years spoke about his ability to stick at 3B.  Moving him to the OF in order to keep Plouffe at 3B speaks to a clear and wide gap defensively between the two and potentially a feeling that the gap would not close much.

It doesn't necessarily mean that. It could be they want to keep their best hitters hitting so that meant keeping Plouffe (I personally wished they had traded him for a pitcher) and getting Park and finding a place for Sano who, I think, looked pretty nimble at 3B last year.

[Cris E]

 

Not a gold glover, but he'll be just good enough.  They only need him to be good enough out there for 2-3 years until a corner IF position opens up.  Plenty of superstars have moved around the field, including Miguel Cabrera.

 

I don't know, once guys move away from a defensive spot they rarely come back to it in the same way. Cabrera springs to mind because he's the exception, not because he was awesome (in LF or 3b.)

[tobi0040]

 

It doesn't necessarily mean that. It could be they want to keep their best hitters hitting so that meant keeping Plouffe (I personally wished they had traded him for a pitcher) and getting Park and finding a place for Sano who, I think, looked pretty nimble at 3B last year.

 

Well, Sano in LF likely takes reps from Arcia.  Arcia actually has a higher career OPS than Trevor Plouffe.

 

So Plouffe at 3B and Sano in LF is actually not as good offensively than Sano at 3B and Arcia in the OF. And we are using career numbers for Arcia from ages 22-24, so he likely could be better than that.

[jay]

 

The Twins made at least three assumptions:

 

-Sano could stick at 3B

 

-They wanted to trade Plouffe

 

-They could get a return that was satisfactory for Plouffe

 

Somewhere along the line, they were wrong about one or more of these.  I am not sure which one it is and we may never know. 

 

But I just hope this is a lesson about hedging bets.  If the Twins thought it was even a 10% chance of any of these, Sano should have had different gloves and in the minors he should have played at least 20 games a year in the OF.  You don't have a guy playing a brand new position for the first time in the majors.

 

The Twins made those assumptions or fans made those assumptions? I'd say the latter...

 

Plenty of precedence to keep someone at the higher defensive value position as long as possible. How long does it take to learn how to play the OF?

[jay]

 

I don't know, once guys move away from a defensive spot they rarely come back to it in the same way.

 

Probably because they weren't a viable option there in the first place...

[Platoon]

 

How long does it take to learn how to play the OF?

I will check with Nunez, EE, and Willingham, and get right back to you on that! :)

[tobi0040]

 

The Twins made those assumptions or fans made those assumptions? I'd say the latter...

 

Plenty of precedence to keep someone at the higher defensive value position as long as possible. How long does it take to learn how to play the OF?

 

If the Twins didn't make those assumptions and they didn't give him a single rep in the OF when games don't count....then they gave this less thought than I thought.

 

You don't give a guy an OF glove in spring training and say go get em.  That is just a dumb move. Especially when he is 270 pounds to begin with.

[jimmer]

To be able to play OF at an acceptable level at the major level takes tons of time. Seems some think it doesn't take any time at all. There are nuances at every position and playing OF is no different. It's more than just see ball get ball.

[TheLeviathan]

Shouldn't we, as Twins fans most of all, understand you just can't toss infielders into the outfield and assume it works?

 

I mean, it might.  I'm hoping it does.  But the prevailing assumption seems to be built on something like "Well if Alex Gordon can do it", whereas I would counter "Well, if Escobar, Bartlett, and Nunez can't...."

 

We just won't know until he gets out there, but it's not a given the transition will work.

[Bob Sacamento]

 

To be able to play OF at an acceptable level at the major level takes tons of time. Seems some think it doesn't take any time at all. There are nuances at every position and playing OF is no different. It's more than just see ball get ball.

Correct!  There are plenty of OFers who don't like switching corner spots, let alone switching IF to OF, because the flyball trajectory coming off the bat to LF is completely opposite of that one going to RF.

[jay]

I mean, it might. I'm hoping it does. But the prevailing assumption seems to be built on something like "Well if Alex Gordon can do it", whereas I would counter "Well, if Escobar, Bartlett, and Nunez can't...."

 

We just won't know until he gets out there, but it's not a given the transition will work.

I'd say the prevailing presumption around here is the exact opposite...

 

Can't say I've heard anyone mention an elite defender, more so some hope that he can be just good enough for long enough. Certainly in comparison to some others we've seen in the OF.

[tobi0040]

Shouldn't we, as Twins fans most of all, understand you just can't toss infielders into the outfield and assume it works?

 

I mean, it might. I'm hoping it does. But the prevailing assumption seems to be built on something like "Well if Alex Gordon can do it", whereas I would counter "Well, if Escobar, Bartlett, and Nunez can't...."

 

We just won't know until he gets out there, but it's not a given the transition will work.

Going back 2 years we have moved the following guys from INF to OF at least for a fair amount of reps:

 

Bartlett, Santana, Escobar, Sano, and Rosario (back and forth). If memory serves I think we speculated about Plouffe too.

 

Cutting edge folks.

[Dantes929]

 

To be able to play OF at an acceptable level at the major level takes tons of time. Seems some think it doesn't take any time at all. There are nuances at every position and playing OF is no different. It's more than just see ball get ball.

Yeah, there are nuances but its mostly see ball get ball.       I am not saying that is necessarily easy to do.  Part talent and part skill but if Sano can do it it will put him above Young, Willingham, Escobar and Nunez.   Hitting cutoffs is something Hunter sometimes ignored and Hicks often ignored.   Arcia and many others never could figure out the ricochets so the bar is not really that high as far as I am concerned.   I am guessing he will be at least as good as Arica right off the bat but if not then put Arcia out there.     I am also putting the odds of Sano being adequate right off the bat as an outfielder as greater than Park being adequate right off the bat as a DH..     

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I am guessing he will be at least as good as Arica right off the bat but if not then put Arcia out there.

And then Sano rides the pine for a couple months?

 

Of course not. But if Sano doesn't work out in the outfield, then what? I assume DH, but then what do you do with Park. Park played first base in Korea. We've reached a dead end until someone underperforms or gets seriously hurt (no thank you) or a current starter is traded.

[Bob Sacamento]

 

Yeah, there are nuances but its mostly see ball get ball.       I am not saying that is necessarily easy to do.  Part talent and part skill but if Sano can do it it will put him above Young, Willingham, Escobar and Nunez.   Hitting cutoffs is something Hunter sometimes ignored and Hicks often ignored.   Arcia and many others never could figure out the ricochets so the bar is not really that high as far as I am concerned.   I am guessing he will be at least as good as Arica right off the bat but if not then put Arcia out there.     I am also putting the odds of Sano being adequate right off the bat as an outfielder as greater than Park being adequate right off the bat as a DH..     

Seriously? If it was just see ball get ball, part talent/part skill then why the hell not put Joe Mauer out there?  Why don't more AL teams put their lumbering first baseman out in LF/RF in NL ballparks during interleague play?  The reason is because it's not that easy, it's more than just nuances, it's reads off the bat, tracking while running, knowing the best route to the ball, etcetera but most of all it's reps, reps and even more reps of game action.

 

 If Sano and the Twins organization were actually serious of a move to the outfield it would have been much more plausible to start giving him reps with the outfielders midseason if anything just shagging flyballs AND play some OF in Winter ball.  Instead, Sano stuck it out at DH due to a "hamstring issue" during his MLB tenure and took reps at 3B.  Still after learning that he was making a move to the outfield, does he use Winter ball to get his feet wet and learn the position? No, he does the exact opposite so he could "workout" and his end result was to lose 5lbs.  Something I know he lost last year in 3 days during spring training.  Add that in with other tidbits I've been told it seems like Sano is almost trying to put off a move to the outfield.  

 

Regarding Arcia, for all those who think he's horrible in the field, you think you're going to get a better result with someone whose never taken a MLB or MiLB rep in the outfield in Sano?  While Ozzy has been scouted and in the not so distant past regarded quite favorable as an ideal RF, I'll call in question your sanity.

[Dantes929]

 

Seriously? If it was just see ball get ball, part talent/part skill then why the hell not put Joe Mauer out there?  Why don't more AL teams put their lumbering first baseman out in LF/RF in NL ballparks during interleague play?  The reason is because it's not that easy, it's more than just nuances, it's reads off the bat, tracking while running, knowing the best route to the ball, etcetera but most of all it's reps, reps and even more reps of game action.

 

  

Seriously?   Speed is a talent.   Is it your opinion that Sano is lumbering?   IMO he is faster than Mauer and Arcia and Willingham and others that have played the outfield.   Everything you said about the nuances is still about whether or not he can  see ball, get ball.    Part talent, part skill.  The skill part is the taking reps.  I don't know if he has either talent or skill.    I am guessing he can do it but we will find out soon enough.   I believe it is the easiest of all the positions to play adequately and think he can pick it up.  If not then we move on.  

Ok, now I will question your sanity if you think Arcia is the ideal right fielder.   No speed, steel hands, horrible routes and when I see a ball go to the corner I know it will be a triple because he just has no feel for the bounces.   Yet, I am also ok if he plays there because of his bat.    I have every bit as much confidence in Rosario, Buxton and Sano as I do in Rosario, :Buxton and Arcia.   We are just talking defense here.  Cuddyer was ok, Span was great.  Hicks would probably be ideal.    I don't know who ever said Arcia was ideal.  It certainly wasn't me.   I don't think Sano is ideal either.   I don't think the bar is set very high at Arcia though.   If Sano can't defend better than him he won't be out there long.

[Oxtung]

 

Going back 2 years we have moved the following guys from INF to OF at least for a fair amount of reps:

Bartlett, Santana, Escobar, Sano, and Rosario (back and forth). If memory serves I think we speculated about Plouffe too.

Cutting edge folks.

 

Don't forget Herrmann, Parmelee and Colabello in 2013!

[alhweiner]

 

 

 "While Ozzy has been scouted and in the not so distant past regarded quite favorable as an ideal RF"

 

Wow!

What are the odds of the words "ideal RF" being used to describe Arcia?

About the same odds as the words "fabulous haircut" being used to describe him.

[tobi0040]

 

Don't forget Herrmann, Parmelee and Colabello in 2013!

 

Wow.  8 guys in 3 years.  I would guess no other team is doing this at this clip. 

[Platoon]

A note to those who use the RF corner ricochets as a benchmark to judge players. I have not seen anyone do it with any success. That corner plays weird. I used to think it was Arcia. Until I saw Hunter out there. And visiting RF'ers are not any better. I don't know if the bottom of the wall is a little further off the ground than other corners? Or if it's the angle? But more guys end up standing out there waiting for a carom that doesn't come, and looking foolish. And if you take a chance and chase it into the corner, you might look even worse. It just does not play consistently.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

*Conspiracy Theory*

 

Park was signed to play DH, and some 1B, with no other spot to man. Plouffe was kept on purpose, but partly because there was nothing being offered that made us even marginally better. He plays 3B and 1B, with an outside chance of emergency OF corner. Sano WAS the DH, thought to be the incoming 3B, and many saw as a 1B any day soon, but now is being pushed to the OF. Mauer is 1B and DH. 

 

The best player here by far now and in the future is Sano. He will NOT be sitting or sharing time. Park was signed in the hopes of having major power, but is 1B and DH only. I really do feel that the Twins "hope" this configuration works out, but also very much believe that they know that this is a 50/50 shot of Sano working in the OF. 

 

With that being acknowledged, and if Park and Plouffe are performing better or on par with Mauer....could this be the Twins way of having their hand "forced" to sit Mauer if all the other guys are outperforming him and Sano is a flop in the OF? This would be a way for the team to not have the hard conversation of sitting him for someone of less significance. I could see Mauer, Plouffe, and Park all rotating or platooning to some degree. I think if Sano gets pushed back to 3B/1B/DH, that Mauer ends up in some sort of platoon with Mauer hitting against RHP's and sitting against LHP, with Plouffe and Park rotating of who sits and hits against RHP. 

 

Mauer really could not buck this, as it would make him look selfish, and it would wipe the Twins hands clean of having that conversation. Once the part time player role happens, it would be easier to wean him IF he does not hit..."IF"

 

Maybe, just maybe.